Edgar, Thanks for your post.
I agree with most of what you write in your first paragraph. In that paragraph you do say that, "...reality is a single thing, namely the present moment, but it manifests as illusions...as multiple things within the present moment." So when you chew gum (that is your awareness is that of chewing gum), then the universe (reality/Buddha) is chewing gum, isn't it? However in your second paragraph you say, "The universe can certainly chew gum and walk and engage in the myriad...of other things at the same time." So I assume when you say "myriad...of other things...", you're referring to illusions - right? Otherwise, if as you've said 'reality is a single thing', which is how I understand it to be, then there is only a single awareness. If that awareness is chewing gum, then that's it. If it's walking, then that's it. If you're saying that YOU can have a lot of different illusions at the same time, or even at different illusory time slices; and/or that YOU can event have illusions that there are multiple 'others' out there having multiple synchronous and/or asynchronous 'awareness's', than I also agree with you - but all of this are illusions. I have illusions like this all the time and do operate most of my life based on these illusions. But thanks to my zen practice I know they are illusory. I hold to the understanding that there can be only one reality, one awareness, one moment. That is THIS and it is Now. And that's what I call Just THIS! ...Bill! From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Question? Hi Bill, No, I believe reality is a single thing, namely the present moment, but that it manifests as illusion which is its discrimination and manifestations as multiple things within the present moment. This is the world we normally live in (except perhaps when we are in deepest meditation and most individual distinctions have dropped away). In this world of illusion we must deal with illusion as it appears, i.e. causally (or better than the 'we' merges back into the basic flows and moves according to them). We live in the world of illusion, of forms. We do have a lot of control to strip away many of the veils of illusion in this world, such as desires and delusions, but we cannot strip away the basic material forms and their causal relationships. If I were to chew gum, the entire universe doesn't start chewing gum! What nonsense! The universe can certainly chew gum and walk and engage in myriad upon myriad of other things at the same time. The universe is a huge complex of interconnected chi flows. We may speak of that as illusion only in the sense that the individual forms are transient forms of the basic substance of reality, Ontological energy or Tao or whatever one wants to call it. ONly when that is entirely still without ripples of form do the illusions vanish completely - a state prior to the big bang. Recognition of the illusory nature of things is not making everything (illusions) disappear, it is simply seeing that all the forms are themselves empty of any substance other than ontological energy or TAo or chi of Buddha nature stuff. Zen is not about making these basic illusions disappear, it is recognizing that illusion is the world that exists. Edgar On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mayka, I disagree with Edgar on this. Actually this is the same disagreement on which Edgar and I posted on previously concerning causation and eventually abandoned our efforts. - Edgar thinks reality is made up of many distinct (but sometimes related) things happening at either the same or different times. (At least that is my understanding of Edgar's general position. He can correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment or if I'm not expressing it well.) - I think reality is only one thing (Just THIS!), and there is only one time (now). So, my responses to you are that there is no 'you' doing anything, there is only ever one thing happening - Just THIS! and it is only ever happening NOW. All the other concepts discussed in this post are illusions. If you're walking, there is only walking. The entire universe is walking - now. If you're chewing gum, there is only chewing gum. The entire universe is chewing gum - now. In Zen Buddhism this is referred to as expressing your Buddha Nature. I refer to this as Just THIS! ...Bill! From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:37 AM To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Question? Mayka, You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many things at once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have to move together to make even the simplest motion. To speak tongue and lips and breath must all move at the same time. No one ever is doing just one thing. That is an illusion. Edgar __________ NOD32 3576 (20081102) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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