Edgar,

Thanks for your post.

I agree with most of what you write in your first paragraph.

In that paragraph you do say that, "...reality is a single thing, namely the
present moment, but it manifests as illusions...as multiple things within
the present moment."

So when you chew gum (that is your awareness is that of chewing gum), then
the universe (reality/Buddha) is chewing gum, isn't it?

However in your second paragraph you say, "The universe can certainly chew
gum and walk and engage in the myriad...of other things at the same time."

So I assume when you say "myriad...of other things...", you're referring to
illusions - right?  Otherwise, if as you've said 'reality is a single
thing', which is how I understand it to be, then there is only a single
awareness.  If that awareness is chewing gum, then that's it.  If it's
walking, then that's it.

If you're saying that YOU can have a lot of different illusions at the same
time, or even at different illusory time slices; and/or that YOU can event
have illusions that there are multiple 'others' out there having multiple
synchronous and/or asynchronous 'awareness's', than I also agree with you -
but all of this are illusions.  I have illusions like this all the time and
do operate most of my life based on these illusions.  But thanks to my zen
practice I know they are illusory.

I hold to the understanding that there can be only one reality, one
awareness, one moment.  That is THIS and it is Now.

And that's what I call Just THIS!

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:06 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Question?

Hi Bill,

No, I believe reality is a single thing, namely the present moment, but that
it manifests as illusion which is its discrimination and manifestations as
multiple things within the present moment. This is the world we normally
live in (except perhaps when we are in deepest meditation and most
individual distinctions have dropped away). In this world of illusion we
must deal with illusion as it appears, i.e. causally (or better than the
'we' merges back into the basic flows and moves according to them). We live
in the world of illusion, of forms. We do have a lot of control to strip
away many of the veils of illusion in this world, such as desires and
delusions, but we cannot strip away the basic material forms and their
causal relationships.

If I were to chew gum, the entire universe doesn't start chewing gum! What
nonsense! The universe can certainly chew gum and walk and engage in myriad
upon myriad of other things at the same time. The universe is a huge complex
of interconnected chi flows. We may speak of that as illusion only in the
sense that the individual forms are transient forms of the basic substance
of reality, Ontological energy or Tao or whatever one wants to call it. ONly
when that is entirely still without ripples of form do the illusions vanish
completely - a state prior to the big bang.

Recognition of the illusory nature of things is not making everything
(illusions) disappear, it is simply seeing that all the forms are themselves
empty of any substance other than ontological energy or TAo or chi of Buddha
nature stuff. Zen is not about making these basic illusions disappear, it is
recognizing that illusion is the world that exists.

Edgar



On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


Mayka,

I disagree with Edgar on this. Actually this is the same disagreement on
which Edgar and I posted on previously concerning causation and eventually
abandoned our efforts.
- Edgar thinks reality is made up of many distinct (but sometimes related)
things happening at either the same or different times. (At least that is my
understanding of Edgar's general position. He can correct me if I'm wrong
in my assessment or if I'm not expressing it well.)
- I think reality is only one thing (Just THIS!), and there is only one time
(now).

So, my responses to you are that there is no 'you' doing anything, there is
only ever one thing happening - Just THIS! and it is only ever happening
NOW. All the other concepts discussed in this post are illusions.

If you're walking, there is only walking. The entire universe is walking -
now. If you're chewing gum, there is only chewing gum. The entire universe
is chewing gum - now.

In Zen Buddhism this is referred to as expressing your Buddha Nature. I
refer to this as Just THIS!

...Bill!

From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:37 AM
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen] Question?

Mayka,

You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many things at
once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have to move together
to make even the simplest motion. To speak tongue and lips and breath must
all move at the same time. No one ever is doing just one thing. That is an
illusion.

Edgar

 

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