No, I believe reality is a single thing, namely the present moment,
but that it manifests as illusion which is its discrimination and
manifestations as multiple things within the present moment. This is
the world we normally live in (except perhaps when we are in deepest
meditation and most individual distinctions have dropped away). In
this world of illusion we must deal with illusion as it appears, i.e.
causally (or better than the 'we' merges back into the basic flows
and moves according to them). We live in the world of illusion, of
forms. We do have a lot of control to strip away many of the veils of
illusion in this world, such as desires and delusions, but we cannot
strip away the basic material forms and their causal relationships.
If I were to chew gum, the entire universe doesn't start chewing gum!
What nonsense! The universe can certainly chew gum and walk and
engage in myriad upon myriad of other things at the same time. The
universe is a huge complex of interconnected chi flows. We may speak
of that as illusion only in the sense that the individual forms are
transient forms of the basic substance of reality, Ontological energy
or Tao or whatever one wants to call it. ONly when that is entirely
still without ripples of form do the illusions vanish completely - a
state prior to the big bang.
Recognition of the illusory nature of things is not making everything
(illusions) disappear, it is simply seeing that all the forms are
themselves empty of any substance other than ontological energy or
TAo or chi of Buddha nature stuff. Zen is not about making these
basic illusions disappear, it is recognizing that illusion is the
world that exists.
On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I disagree with Edgar on this. Actually this is the same
which Edgar and I posted on previously concerning causation and
abandoned our efforts.
- Edgar thinks reality is made up of many distinct (but sometimes
things happening at either the same or different times. (At least
that is my
understanding of Edgar's general position. He can correct me if I'm
in my assessment or if I'm not expressing it well.)
- I think reality is only one thing (Just THIS!), and there is only
So, my responses to you are that there is no 'you' doing anything,
only ever one thing happening - Just THIS! and it is only ever
NOW. All the other concepts discussed in this post are illusions.
If you're walking, there is only walking. The entire universe is
now. If you're chewing gum, there is only chewing gum. The entire
is chewing gum - now.
In Zen Buddhism this is referred to as expressing your Buddha
refer to this as Just THIS!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Question?
You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many
once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have to move
to make even the simplest motion. To speak tongue and lips and
all move at the same time. No one ever is doing just one thing.
That is an