Kirk wrote: In this respect Zen shares a great deal in common with Sufism, although the methods might be a great deal different". I've found it that while sensing through the universal heart beyond any duality there is no suffism and not even zen. At those moments there is just, what there is there free from any concepts or ideas. eg: This last July during a holiday with some members of the family and visiting the place where we were born and grow I had a severe crisis of mobility. We were hosted in a private house. And just the following day of our stay there I had a funny sensation in my body...and I knew at those moments that mobility crisis was on its way. In fact just in a few minutes I tried to leave my bed and fallen on it. and couldn't leave it. (I suffer from a disability in my lower back and sometimes this leads me to severe crisis of mobility). As I am very familiar with my body through the practice of zen I knew at those moments that I had to stay in bed that day and release that blockage of pain by stopping there just where I was. No suffism, no mysticism of any kind....Just pure zen. In the evening our hostess lend me a crutchet and not only I could leave my bed but also going for an out dinner. The pain was still there, the mobility too but under control. And if you could see the photo the waitress took during that dinner you would see a shining face, though a bit marked by the pain. And this is useful zen. Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the chat. Mayka This post of course it doesn't intend to be a contradiction to yourself personal experience. is intention is only to point it out that when all of a sudden an event, something happen to us, there is no more to it that just that present moment. Mayka
--- On Fri, 10/9/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill To: [email protected] Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 8:57 Greetings In my estimation there really is no way to assert what Zen is, whether you are restricting it to zazen; or opening it to a wider religious and cultural discussion. The best we can do is just admit we fall short and perhaps point to our own experience, to presence. Of course we could ask ourselves who is being present? So repeating zazen zazen zazen with platitudes to support it, or explaining big Zen and little zen, does do much but tell us something about who is doing the talking and perhaps who is doing the listening here. I think it is safe to say that Zen is a path that addresses the experiential with zazen as its central methodology -- a sort of undoing of yourself, the conditioned cultural and experiential part of your personality that continuously reacts and feeds your ego. Think of it this way, while you are reading this you are already reacting inside in an automatic way. Zen seeks to loosen the bounds of your false self and return you to your natural state. Part of the reason why Zen honors spontaneity, clarity, nature and a sense of the primordial untouched mother that feeds us all. In this respect Zen shares a great deal in common with Sufism, although the methods might be a great deal different. Best wishes Kirk It shares a great deal of common In a message dated 9/9/2010 10:55:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: In my direct experience there is nothing at all mystical about zen - nor is there anything mystical about it as the old Chinese masters taught it. And I do think this is why many people have such a hard time with zen - they are looking for something mystical, they cannot believe it really is that simple: "Everyday mind is zen mind" or "Marvelous spiritual power; chopping wood and carrying water!" or "If you want to understand zen directly, the normal mind is zen mind." And my favorite: "Someone asked Xuedou, 'What is the living meaning of zen?' Xuedou said, 'The mountains are high, the oceans are wide.' " Until you "get it" these things don't seem to make sense and people think there must be some deep mystical thing they are missing. After you "get it" you realize it was there all along! ;-) Artie
