Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that 
"aggresive and destructive" criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The recent 
demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. Here is 
the head of a religious organisation that systematically brushed under the 
carpet instances of child rape in order to preserve its good name. Shame. And 
what does he say in his address? (are you listening DP?)
He compares unbelief in faith to the rise of Hitlerism in Germany. Wanker! He 
should be locked up. I'm serious.


From: maria818448 <>
Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:04:23
Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

Hi Mike again:

I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from the 
fourm went missed out such as this one from you. 

My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive 
criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to his/her 
object of dissapointment. I certainly agree with you and criticism is necessary 
the fact that TNH himself and his institutions don't handle well criticism 
even stronger my point. When a person has a difference of opinion and makes 
critics to the institution they're good enough to ignore you completely and let 
you on the side....And that of course is very irritating and can lead to anger 
later on. In religion for as long you are in the same flow one is ok but as 
one starts to thinking by oneselve alone...or say something contrary to the 
established power in the institution....WoooooooW!!!. 


--- In, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
> Mayka,
> It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established religious 
> institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" from 
> criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; 
> goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable 
> behaviours 
> etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid 
> against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd 
> probably 
> think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming 
> scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in a 
> bronze-age myth. And I'm not even going to begin with the institutionalised 
> cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church..
> Mike
> ________________________________
> From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@...>
> To:
> Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> Hi Mike and Everyone!
> If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious 
> institution 

> whether that dissapointment was in Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Zen 
> Buddhist, etc, etc institutions:  and  afterwards acts as a destructor 
> the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't sound a 
> very wise way of doing towards oneself.  I certainly include myself in this 
> unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment in 
> the 

> TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never 
>as irrespetuos 
> or destructive as many atheists show themselves ugly behaviour in front of 
> Christianity.  This harmful way of doing doesn't affect the instituions 
> established but just to the ones who carries away such violent shows. 
>  When I look deeply into myself, I realice that it was me all the way alone 
> built up a pedestal to that institution.  It was me who caused herself the 
> dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, the 
> institution".  They weren't the ones!!!. Having seeing this within myself I 
> now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced in the 
> walk of zen buddhism.
>   I was ever dissapointed in any Christian institutions because I never 
> built 
> a pedestal to the instituion!.  And so my experience was always healthy and 
> positive.  It was positive because I never put that instituion in a 
>pedestal.  I 
> saw it for what it was.  And so I could get all the benefit from it and 
> never 

> the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it.
> Mayka
> --- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
> >From: mike brown <uerusub...@...>
> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> church.
> >To:
> >Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33
> >
> >
> >  
> >Kristy,
> >
> >You wrote:  "If you have faith, there is a whole sphere they are ignorant 
> >about."  
> >
> >
> >However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once 
> >believers 

> >who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. Moreover, I 
> >am 
> >ignorant of what it is to be a neo-nazis, but have no trouble rejecting 
> >their 
> >beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >


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