--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote: > > DP, > > It was a rhetorical point, but I'll accept your apology. > > Mike > > >
I didn't offer one. And apparently giving offense is not a crime. As well, I seem to recall that you essentially inserted yourself into this discussion in the first place. Perhaps it was unwise of me to specify the nature of the arguments I was having, but the moment I mentioned religion and politics, you champed at the bit. And I have continuously pointed out that in my rather mainstream Church I have never felt that I wasn't allowed to think, so I refuse to include your (pardon my language) asinine, bumper-sticker sentiment in my subject line. > > ________________________________ > From: DP <wookielife...@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 7:49:15 > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church. > >  > > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > DP, > > > > That post was addressed to Mayka so I don't know why you felt you were > > called > > upon on to defend the pope. > > > > Perhaps because you wrote "(are you listening DP?)" So yes, you did address > me. > > > > > Mike > > > > ps, you don't have to tell me about religious people disagreeing on things. > > It > > > usually involves them killing each other about whose god is the most > > peaceful. > > > You don't need religion to have people kill each other over disagreements... > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: DP <wookielifeday@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:40:29 > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church. > > > > à> > I am not a Catholic, nor am I a fan of the current pope, who was part of > > the > > mechanations to put down Liberation Theology, one of the positive thing > > that > >has > > > > come out of the Catholic Church. I feel no need to defend Ratzinger, so you > > are > > > > indeed barking up the wrong tree. > > > > Gosh, religious people disagree on stuff! How shocking! > > > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that > > > "aggresive and destructive" criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The > >recent > > > > > > > > demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. > > > Here > >is > > > > > > > the head of a religious organisationÃâàthat systematically brushed > > > under the > > > > > carpet instances of child rape in order to preserve its good name. Shame. > > > And > > > > > what does he say in his address? (are you listening DP?) > > > He compares unbelief in faith to the rise of Hitlerism in > > > Germany.ÃâàWanker! > >He > > > > > > > should be locked up.ÃâàI'm serious. > > > > > > MikeÃâà> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: maria818448 <flordeloto@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:04:23 > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > > > church. > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hi Mike again: > > > > > > I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from > > > the > > > >zen > > > > > > fourm went missed out such as this one from you. > > > > > > > > > My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive > > > criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to > >his/her > > > > > > > > object of dissapointment. I certainly agree with you and criticism is > >necessary > > > > > > > > the fact that TNH himself and his institutions don't handle well > > > criticism > > >makes > > > > > > even stronger my point. When a person has a difference of opinion and > > > makes > > > critics to the institution they're good enough to ignore you completely > > > and > >let > > > > > > > > you on the side....And that of course is very irritating and can lead to > >anger > > > > > > > later on. In religion for as long you are in the same flow one is ok but > > > as > > >soon > > > > > > one starts to thinking by oneselve alone...or say something contrary to > > > the > > > established power in the institution....WoooooooW!!!. > > > > > > > > > Mayka > > > > > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mayka, > > > > > > > > It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established > >religious > > > > > > > > institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" > >from > > > > > > > > criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; > > > > goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable > > >behaviours > > > > > > > > > > > etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid > > > >argument > > > > > > > > against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd > > >probably > > > > > > > > > > > think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming > > > > scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in > > > > a > > > > bronze-age myth.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàAnd I'm not even going to begin > > > > with the > > >institutionalised > > > > > > > cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church.. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in > > > > your > > > >church. > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Hi Mike and Everyone! > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious > > >institution > > > > > > > > > > whetherÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthat > > > > dissapointmentÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàwasÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàin Christian, > >Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, > > > > >Zen > > > > > > > Buddhist, etc, etc institutions: > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàandÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> >afterwardsÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàacts asÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàa > > > > >destructor > > > > > > >towards > > > > > > > > the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't > > > > sound > >a > > > > > > > > > very wise way of doing towards oneself.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàI certainly > > > > include myself > >in > > > > >this > > > > > > > unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment > > > > in > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never > > > >asÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàirrespetuos > > > > > > > > or destructiveÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàas many atheists show themselves ugly > >behaviourÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàin front > > > > >of > > > > > > > Christianity.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàThis harmful way of doing doesn't > > > > affect the > >instituions > > > > > > established but just to the ones who carries away such violent > >shows.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàWhen I look deeply into myself, > > > > IÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàrealice that it was me > >all the way > > > > >alone > > > > > > >who > > > > > > > > built up a pedestal to that institution.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàIt was me > > > > who caused > >herself the > > > > > > > > > dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, peace....to the > > > > institution".ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàThey weren't the > > > > ones!!!.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàHaving seeing this > >within > > > > >myself I > > > > > > >am > > > > > > > > now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced > > > > in > >the > > > > > > > > > walk of zen buddhism. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàI was ever dissapointed in any Christian > > > > institutions because I > >never > > > > >built > > > > > > >up > > > > > > > > a pedestal to the instituion!.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàAnd so my experience > > > > was always > >healthy > > > > >and > > > > > > > positive.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàIt was positive because I never put that > > > > instituion in a > > > > > >pedestal.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàI > > > > > > > > saw it for what it was.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàAnd so I could get all the > > > > benefit from it > >and > > > > >never > > > > > > > > > > the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Mayka > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in > > > > >your > > > > church. > > > > >To: [email protected] > > > > >Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > >Kristy, > > > > > > > > > >You wrote:ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà"If you have faith, there is a whole > > > > >sphere they are > >ignorant > > > > > > > > > >about."ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once > > >believers > > > > > > > > > > >who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. > > > > >Moreover, > >I > > > > >am > > > > > > > > > > > >ignorant of what it is to be aÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàneo-nazis, but have > > > > >no trouble > >rejecting > > > > >their > > > > > > > > > > > >beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong. > > > > > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DP, > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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