DP,

It was a rhetorical point, but I'll accept your apology.

Mike




________________________________
From: DP <wookielife...@yahoo.ca>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 7:49:15
Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

  


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
>
> DP,
> 
> That post was addressed to Mayka so I don't know why you felt you were called 
> upon on to defend the pope. 
> 

Perhaps because you wrote "(are you listening DP?)" So yes, you did address me.

> 
> Mike
> 
> ps, you don't have to tell me about religious people disagreeing on things. 
> It 

> usually involves them killing each other about whose god is the most peaceful.
> 
You don't need religion to have people kill each other over disagreements...

> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: DP <wookielife...@...>
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:40:29
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
> 
>   
> I am not a Catholic, nor am I a fan of the current pope, who was part of the 
> mechanations to put down Liberation Theology, one of the positive thing that 
>has 
>
> come out of the Catholic Church. I feel no need to defend Ratzinger, so you 
> are 
>
> indeed barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> Gosh, religious people disagree on stuff! How shocking!
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that 
> > "aggresive and destructive" criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The 
>recent 
>
> >
> > demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. Here 
>is 
>
> 
> > the head of a religious organisation that systematically brushed under 
> > the 
>
> > carpet instances of child rape in order to preserve its good name. Shame. 
> > And 
>
> > what does he say in his address? (are you listening DP?)
> > He compares unbelief in faith to the rise of Hitlerism in 
> > Germany. Wanker! 
>He 
>
> 
> > should be locked up. I'm serious.
> > 
> > Mike 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: maria818448 <flordeloto@>
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:04:23
> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
> > 
> >   
> > Hi Mike again:
> > 
> > I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from 
> > the 

> >zen 
> >
> > fourm went missed out such as this one from you. 
> > 
> > 
> > My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive 
> > criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to 
>his/her 
>
> >
> > object of dissapointment. I certainly agree with you and criticism is 
>necessary 
>
> >
> > the fact that TNH himself and his institutions don't handle well criticism 
> >makes 
> >
> > even stronger my point. When a person has a difference of opinion and makes 
> > critics to the institution they're good enough to ignore you completely and 
>let 
>
> >
> > you on the side....And that of course is very irritating and can lead to 
>anger 
>
> 
> > later on. In religion for as long you are in the same flow one is ok but as 
> >soon 
> >
> > one starts to thinking by oneselve alone...or say something contrary to the 
> > established power in the institution....WoooooooW!!!. 
> > 
> > 
> > Mayka 
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mayka,
> > > 
> > > It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established 
>religious 
>
> 
> > > institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" 
>from 
>
> 
> > > criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; 
> > > goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable 
> >behaviours 
> >
> > >
> > > etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid 
> > >argument 
> > >
> > > against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd 
> >probably 
> >
> > >
> > > think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming 
> > > scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in a 
> > > bronze-age myth. And I'm not even going to begin with the 
> >institutionalised 
> >
> > > cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church..
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@>
> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51
> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> > >church.
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Hi Mike and Everyone!
> > >  
> > > If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious 
> >institution 
> >
> > 
> > > whether that dissapointment was in Christian, 
>Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, 
>
> >Zen 
> >
> > > Buddhist, etc, etc institutions:  and  
>afterwards acts as a 
>
> >destructor 
> >
> > >towards 
> > >
> > > the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't 
> > > sound 
>a 
>
> >
> > > very wise way of doing towards oneself.  I certainly include 
> > > myself 
>in 
>
> >this 
> >
> > > unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment 
> > > in 

> >the 
> >
> > 
> > > TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never 
> > >as irrespetuos 
> > >
> > > or destructive as many atheists show themselves ugly 
>behaviour in front 
>
> >of 
> >
> > > Christianity.  This harmful way of doing doesn't affect the 
>instituions 
>
> > > established but just to the ones who carries away such violent 
>shows. 
> > >  
> > >  When I look deeply into myself, I realice that it was me 
>all the way 
>
> >alone 
> >
> > >who 
> > >
> > > built up a pedestal to that institution.  It was me who caused 
>herself the 
>
> >
> > > dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, peace....to the 
> > > institution".  They weren't the ones!!!. Having seeing 
> > > this 
>within 
>
> >myself I 
> >
> > >am 
> > >
> > > now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced in 
>the 
>
> >
> > > walk of zen buddhism.
> > >  
> > >   I was ever dissapointed in any Christian institutions because I 
>never 
>
> >built 
> >
> > >up 
> > >
> > > a pedestal to the instituion!.  And so my experience was always 
>healthy 
>
> >and 
> >
> > > positive.  It was positive because I never put that instituion in 
> > > a 
>
> > >pedestal.  I 
> > >
> > > saw it for what it was.  And so I could get all the benefit from 
> > > it 
>and 
>
> >never 
> >
> > 
> > > the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it.
> > >  
> > > Mayka
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> > > church.
> > > >To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >Kristy,
> > > >
> > > >You wrote:  "If you have faith, there is a whole sphere they are 
>ignorant 
>
> >
> > > >about."  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once 
> >believers 
> >
> > 
> > > >who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. 
> > > >Moreover, 
>I 
>
> >am 
> >
> > >
> > > >ignorant of what it is to be a neo-nazis, but have no trouble 
>rejecting 
>
> >their 
> >
> > >
> > > >beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> DP,
>





      

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