I am not a Catholic, nor am I a fan of the current pope, who was part of the 
mechanations to put down Liberation Theology, one of the positive thing that 
has come out of the Catholic Church. I feel no need to defend Ratzinger, so you 
are indeed barking up the wrong tree.

Gosh, religious people disagree on stuff! How shocking!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that 
> "aggresive and destructive" criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The 
> recent 
> demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. Here 
> is 
> the head of a religious organisation that systematically brushed under the 
> carpet instances of child rape in order to preserve its good name. Shame. And 
> what does he say in his address? (are you listening DP?)
> He compares unbelief in faith to the rise of Hitlerism in Germany. Wanker! 
> He 
> should be locked up. I'm serious.
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: maria818448 <flordel...@...>
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:04:23
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
> 
>   
> Hi Mike again:
> 
> I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from the 
> zen 
> fourm went missed out such as this one from you. 
> 
> 
> My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive 
> criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to 
> his/her 
> object of dissapointment. I certainly agree with you and criticism is 
> necessary 
> the fact that TNH himself and his institutions don't handle well criticism 
> makes 
> even stronger my point. When a person has a difference of opinion and makes 
> critics to the institution they're good enough to ignore you completely and 
> let 
> you on the side....And that of course is very irritating and can lead to 
> anger 
> later on. In religion for as long you are in the same flow one is ok but as 
> soon 
> one starts to thinking by oneselve alone...or say something contrary to the 
> established power in the institution....WoooooooW!!!. 
> 
> 
> Mayka 
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > Mayka,
> > 
> > It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established 
> > religious 
> > institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" 
> > from 
> > criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; 
> > goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable 
> > behaviours 
> >
> > etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid 
> >argument 
> >
> > against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd 
> > probably 
> >
> > think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming 
> > scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in a 
> > bronze-age myth. And I'm not even going to begin with the 
> > institutionalised 
> > cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church..
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@>
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> >church.
> > 
> >   
> > Hi Mike and Everyone!
> >  
> > If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious 
> > institution 
> 
> > whether that dissapointment was in Christian, Muslim, Jew, 
> > Buddhist, Zen 
> > Buddhist, etc, etc institutions:  and  afterwards acts as a 
> > destructor 
> >towards 
> >
> > the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't sound 
> > a 
> > very wise way of doing towards oneself.  I certainly include myself in 
> > this 
> > unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment in 
> > the 
> 
> > TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never 
> >as irrespetuos 
> >
> > or destructive as many atheists show themselves ugly behaviour in 
> > front of 
> > Christianity.  This harmful way of doing doesn't affect the instituions 
> > established but just to the ones who carries away such violent shows. 
> >  
> >  When I look deeply into myself, I realice that it was me all the way 
> > alone 
> >who 
> >
> > built up a pedestal to that institution.  It was me who caused herself 
> > the 
> > dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, peace....to the 
> > institution".  They weren't the ones!!!. Having seeing this within 
> > myself I 
> >am 
> >
> > now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced in 
> > the 
> > walk of zen buddhism.
> >  
> >   I was ever dissapointed in any Christian institutions because I never 
> > built 
> >up 
> >
> > a pedestal to the instituion!.  And so my experience was always healthy 
> > and 
> > positive.  It was positive because I never put that instituion in a 
> >pedestal.  I 
> >
> > saw it for what it was.  And so I could get all the benefit from it and 
> > never 
> 
> > the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it.
> >  
> > Mayka
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@>
> > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
> > church.
> > >To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > >Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >Kristy,
> > >
> > >You wrote:  "If you have faith, there is a whole sphere they are 
> > >ignorant 
> > >about."  
> > >
> > >
> > >However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once 
> > >believers 
> 
> > >who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. Moreover, 
> > >I am 
> >
> > >ignorant of what it is to be a neo-nazis, but have no trouble rejecting 
> > >their 
> >
> > >beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong.
> > >
> > >Mike
> > >
> > >
> >
>




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