--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote: > > DP, > > Never said I thought it was "offensive", so you can't plead innocent when > there > was no charge in the first place. I understand your point/frustration if you > were trying to discuss a specific situation or particular point about > religion > and were meet with arguments about religion in general (even tho I'd > probably > agree with those sentiments). Understood. > > Mike >
Actually, Im not sure what you claim my offense was. You addressed me, I responded. > > > > ________________________________ > From: DP <wookielife...@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 21:36:02 > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church. > >  > > Am I jumping in on your comment to someone else? I don't care, because > apparently being "offensive" isn't a crime. > > In the original case that i was writing about, it was the lack of respect for > the forum that was frustrating me. There was never any consideration that > religious belief might sustain people in political struggles. > > I just heard an interview with Ingrid Betancourt, the woman who was captured > by > rebels in Colombia for six years. One of the things that sustained her was > her > religious beliefs. That's the type of thing I'd like to discuss on this > forum. > Instead I get nothing more than "all religion is evil." > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Mayka, > > > > I think so, too. that's my point about people bleating about being > > "offended" > >as > > > > though that settles the argument oràends it. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 23:49:40 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > >church. > > > > à> > Mike: > > > > There is a certain true in what you say about labelling assertion as an > > aggression.àIt's something that is happening more and more.àThis > > what you're > > > > raising is actually a very good point.àThis point was discussed in a > > group of > > > > friends while I was in Spain this last July.àWe were talking that > > before > >there > > > > was a dictatorial repressing the freedom of speech and that now that > > repression > > > > comes in a psycological way.àAs soon as one expresses something that is > > going > > > > to be a critic that has an impact, àthen very quickly comes out abusive > > behaviour, agression etc, etc.à> > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > > church. > > >To: [email protected] > > >Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 14:44 > > > > > > > > >à> > >Mayka, > > > > > >I agree with you in the most part about the use of agression but the > > >problem > >is > > > > >that sometimes assertive action is needed to highlight problem issues. > > >That > > >action may include rather loud demonstrations as witnessed in London > > >during > >the > > > > >pope's visit. I would never condone violence but bear in mind that some > > >people > > > > >will always labelàassertion as 'agressive'. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:57:06 > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > > church. > > > > > >à> > >Mike: > > >à> > >In spite of being by nature a very passionate character withàstrong > >temperament, > > > > >Iàdon't agree with any violence method oràin whatever way that is > > >showed.à> >The > > > > >same if that is verbal, physical or psycological.àI have enough hard > > >work to > > > > >tame myself to waste time andàgetting into situations in which allà> > >hard > >work > > > > >done gets destroyed in a matter of seconds because of succumbing into a > > >situation, provocation, dissapointment.....Trust me Mike that aggression > > >is > >not > > > > >the way unless your life is an stake.àI mean by that if someone comes > > >with a > > > > >knife to kill you then why should you allow to be killed > >byàsomeone.àAllowing > > > > >someone to kill us with a banana smile in the face while we fall down > > >death on > > > > >the flooràwill be very sillyà. > > >à> > >However, all this business hatred it doesn't make much sense to > > >me.ààApart > >from > > > > >the great impopularity of the last Pope the UK resents having been > > >expulsed by > > > > >the catholic churchàcenturies ago.àThere are political > > >implications.à> >Evenàif > > > > >the Pope would have been a goody goody one such as TNH, the result would > > >have > > > >been the same.àPolitics and religion competition between different > > >christian > > > > >denominations are notorious through history. > > >à> > >Maykaà> > > > > >--- On Mon, 4/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > > >church. > > >>To: [email protected] > > >>Date: Monday, 4 October, 2010, 17:28 > > >> > > >> > > >>à> > >>Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that > > >>"aggresive and destructive" criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The > >recent > > > > >>demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. > > >>Here > >is > > > > >>the head of a religious organisationàthat systematically brushed under > > >>the > > >>carpet instances of child rape in order to preserve its good name. Shame. > > >>And > > > > >>what does he say in his address? (are you listening DP?) > > >>He compares unbelief in faith to the rise of Hitlerism in > > >>Germany.àWanker! > >He > > > > >>should be locked up.àI'm serious. > > >> > > >>Mikeà> > >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________ > > From: maria818448 <flordeloto@> > > >>To: [email protected] > > >>Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:04:23 > > >>Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your > > >>church. > > >> > > >>à> > >>Hi Mike again: > > >> > > >>I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from > > >>the > >zen > > > > >>fourm went missed out such as this one from you. > > >> > > >> > > >>My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive > > >>criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to > >his/her > > > > >>object of dissapointment. I certainly agree with you and criticism is > >necessary > > > > >>the fact that TNH himself and his institutions don't handle well > > >>criticism > >makes > > > > >>even stronger my point. When a person has a difference of opinion and > > >>makes > > >>critics to the institution they're good enough to ignore you completely > > >>and > >let > > > > >>you on the side....And that of course is very irritating and can lead to > >anger > > > > >>later on. In religion for as long you are in the same flow one is ok but > > >>as > >soon > > > > >>one starts to thinking by oneselve alone...or say something contrary to > > >>the > > >>established power in the institution....WoooooooW!!!. > > >> > > >> > > >>Mayka > > >> > > >>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Mayka, > > >>> > > >>> It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established > >religious > > > > > > >>> institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" > >from > > > > > > >>> criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; > > >>> goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable > >behaviours > > > > >>> > > >>> etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid > > >>>argument > > >>> > > >>> against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd > >probably > > > > >>> > > >>> think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming > > >>> scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in > > >>> a > > >>> bronze-age myth.ÃâàAnd I'm not even going to begin with the > >institutionalised > > > > > > >>> cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church.. > > >>> > > >>> Mike > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ________________________________ > > >>> From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> > > >>> To: [email protected] > > >>> Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51 > > >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in > > >>> your > > >>>church. > > >>> > > >>> Ãâà> > >>> Hi Mike and Everyone! > > >>> Ãâà> > >>> If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious > >institution > > > > >> > > >>> whetherÃâàthat dissapointmentÃâàwasÃâàin Christian, > > >>> Muslim, Jew, > >Buddhist, Zen > > > > >>> Buddhist, etc, etc institutions: ÃâàandÃâà> > >>> afterwardsÃâàacts asÃâàa > >destructor > > > > >>>towards > > >>> > > >>> the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't > > >>> sound > >a > > > > > > > >>> very wise way of doing towards oneself.ÃâàI certainly include > > >>> myself in > >this > > > > > > >>> unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment > > >>> in > >the > > > > >> > > >>> TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never > > >>>asÃâàirrespetuos > > >>> > > >>> or destructiveÃâàas many atheists show themselves ugly > > >>> behaviourÃâàin > >front of > > > > > > >>> Christianity.ÃâàThis harmful way of doing doesn't affect the > > >>> instituions > > > >>> established but just to the ones who carries away such violent > > >>> shows.Ãâà> > >>> Ãâà> > >>> ÃâàWhen I look deeply into myself, IÃâàrealice that it was > > >>> me all the way > >alone > > > > >>>who > > >>> > > >>> built up a pedestal to that institution.ÃâàIt was me who caused > > >>> herself > >the > > > > >>> dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, peace....to the > > >>> institution".ÃâàThey weren't the ones!!!.ÃâàHaving seeing > > >>> this within > >myself I > > > > >>>am > > >>> > > >>> now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced > > >>> in > >the > > > > > > > >>> walk of zen buddhism. > > >>> Ãâà> > >>> ÃâàI was ever dissapointed in any Christian institutions because > > >>> I never > >built > > > > >>>up > > >>> > > >>> a pedestal to the instituion!.ÃâàAnd so my experience was always > > >>> healthy > >and > > > > > > >>> positive.ÃâàIt was positive because I never put that instituion > > >>> in a > > >>>pedestal.ÃâàI > > >>> > > >>> saw it for what it was.ÃâàAnd so I could get all the benefit > > >>> from it and > >never > > > > >> > > >>> the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it. > > >>> Ãâà> > >>> Mayka > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > >>> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in > > >>> >your > > >>> church. > > >>> >To: [email protected] > > >>> >Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33 > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> >Ãâà> > >>> >Kristy, > > >>> > > > >>> >You wrote:Ãâà"If you have faith, there is a whole sphere they > > >>> >are > >ignorant > > > > >>> >about."Ãâà> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> >However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once > >believers > > > > >> > > >>> >who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. > > >>> >Moreover, > >I am > > > > >>> > > >>> >ignorant of what it is to be aÃâàneo-nazis, but have no trouble > > >>> >rejecting > >their > > > > >>> > > >>> >beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong. > > >>> > > > >>> >Mike > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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