I think the beliefs arise after the system. The beliefs may reinforce the 
system but do not cause the system and are not the system. 

Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:28, "ED" <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Bill and All,
> 
> All systems, whether philosophical, psychological scientific, religious, etc. 
> or mixed rest on basic beliefs,  principles, postulates and assumptions.
> 
> In Zen, for instance, some of these premises might be:
> 
> o     Buddha Nature is a reality
> 
> o     Non-rational experiencing is of the essence, and the rational mind is a 
> delusion
> 
> o     Realizing Buddha Nature should be the primary goal of one's life
> 
> o     Experiencing kensho-satori is the mark of one's having commenced the 
> process of experiencing Buddha Nature
> 
> o     A more ongoing experience of "Just THIS" facilitates the occurrence of 
> kensho-satori
> 
> o     Regular and intense Shikantaza practice facilitates the ongoing state 
> of "Just THIS"
> 
> o     No blind reliance on religious texts, but blind dependence on the 
> guidance of Zen teachers is acceptable
> 
> o     An accredited Roshi is necessary to ascertain one's experience of 
> kensho-satori
> 
> o     etc.
> 
> Chan has a few more premises like the existence of Chi, etc.
> 
> --ED
> 
>  
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
> >
> > Kristy,
> > 
> > Just THIS is my attempt to communicate direct experience.
> > 
> > Whether you believe that or not is up to you.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> 
>  
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >  
> > > I disagree.  It is your belief about  your experience.
> > >  
> > > Kristy
> 
>  
> 
> > > Just THIS is not a belief, it is experience...Bill!
> 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So is "just this".  k ;)
> 
> > > > Science is a belief system...Bill!
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, JMJM wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello TMSO,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I would say both are NOT believe systems.
> > > > > 
> > > > > From my limited understanding, Tao is a system, or school well 
> > > > > documented. It primarily focuses on attaining immortality. I mean 
> > > > > with 
> > > > > herbs, exercises, etc. etc.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Chan is just a nick name for the entire universe for thousands of 
> > > > > years. I was curious to its origin many years ago. I dug here and 
> > > > > there and could not find an answer. Even Wikipedia stated, if I 
> > > > > remember correctly, "the original of Chan can not be traced."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Chan did not have an official teaching order until BodhiDharma showed 
> > > > > up. But my teacher often pointed out how incomplete are some of the 
> > > > > Buddhist interpretation.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Our school is really about direct, really is direct, experience. 
> > > > > That's 
> > > > > all.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sorry, these are my best answers. JM
> 
>  
> 
> > > > > On 1/12/2011 2:57 PM, taomtnsage1 wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To Jue Miao Jing Ming- Could you please tell me some of the 
> > > > > > differences between Tao and Chan. Also, which belief system 
> > > > > > developed 
> > > > > > first. Thanks for your help
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 

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