Steve,
 
Reflecting, my heart  tells me to share something else. In my life experience, 
I have learned that enabling others to stay  in their own behaviors, 
addictions, bigotry, violence and the like, by soothing them or offering a 
"soft-spot-to-land" rarely works. More often than not, in due time--they are 
worse off later on, and they  created more chaos and suffering  for self and 
others.
 
Holding one's own, and others feet to the  fire as they say can be the among 
the most effective way to "wake them up"-- before they suffer  tragic life 
consequences.  We just witnessed something here in AZ.   I admit that I don't 
understand  ideas like karma /re-birth. I shut up and learn when discussions 
about  lineages, practices, historical  accounts and so on dominate the 
thread-line.  I'm here to learn, and do--as time permits.
 
That said, while I  deeply understand your  point  on evoking  hate, greed, 
delusion, and negativity, I think  my perspective is a bit different.  I don't  
believe that avoiding or preventing  all suffering is a good thing.  We all 
have to be confronted with our own hate, greed, delusion in order to recognize 
it  in ourselves, and find a means to resolve it peacefully.  It is, in my 
view, confronting the shadows within that serve us--and others.  I realized 
some years ago that being  the warmest, sweetest, gentlest person  is not 
authentic with who I am, or why I exist in this incarnation.  I am very 
loving-- but  indeed, confronting. While it doesn't always taste good to 
others, my role is as necessary as any other.
 
Beyond that, I don't always do the right thing. I am  mindful of the 
instruction, "First-- do no harm".   I apologize if I did so here.    k
 


--- On Thu, 1/20/11, Kristy McClain <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Kristy McClain <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Zen] was the death of / now karma / re-birth
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:46 AM


  








Steve,
 

Well-stated-- and thank you.  I can learn from your example.  Actually, I  
don't spend much time pondering this myself. In my work and relationships, I  
have to be accountable for actions and intents. So-- that is part of my 
persona.-- and shadow.  But I do welcome and learn from differ points of view.  
Be well. k



--- On Thu, 1/20/11, Kristy McClain <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Kristy McClain <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Zen] was the death of / now karma / re-birth
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:38 AM






 Kristy
> 
Hi Kristy. Thank you for your very interesting comments. I certainly agree with 
you in regards to doubt. As Seung Sahn said, 
"Keep that 'I don't know' mind!" I try not to get hung-up on stuff I can't 
personally verify for myself, such as what happens after death.
What I have been able to verify for myself is suffering and the basis for 
suffering in my own life. In regards to karma, I have seen that when I 
encourage a hateful thought, hate follows me. When I encourage a greedy 
thought, greed follows me. When I encourage a deluded thought, delusion follows 
me. If there is an afterlife, then no doubt the consequences of thought, word 
and deed will follow me there, as well. Seeing the fact that all phenomena come 
and go encourages me to cherish people right now. Seeing that phenomena are 
interdependant and cannot exist separately shows me that my happiness is 
inextricably
interwoven with the happiness of others. At the same time, I see within myself 
a serene trust that at the very heart of life is a profound Compassion that 
will never abandon me. I did not cause or choose this trust. These are what I 
can personally verify, and that is quite enough for me right now. 
Steve 



---





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