Edgar, Yes or no, depending on the direction of the flow of chi. If it is upwards closing on your sensitive areas, it is unclean. Otherwise, it is very cleansing. I had a massage master feeling my thigh (while I had underwear on) years ago, and I felt a warm current flowing down healing my pain. So chi is both physical and metaphysical. Anthony
________________________________ From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 15 January 2012, 21:55 Subject: Re: [Zen] Illusory Concept Bill and Anthony, I think you meant Thigh chi which is often unclean... :-) Edgar On Jan 15, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Bill! wrote: >Anthony, > >'Chi' is never unclean. In fact it is very sterile. > >I assume you're talking about Thai 'chi'. *** pun intended *** > >...Bill! > >--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: >> >> JM, >>  >> Can you see jumping from the top of a nine story building and getting killed >> is an act of 'emptiness'? >>  >> Anthony >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, 15 January 2012, 1:27 >> Subject: [Zen] Illusory Concept >> >> >>  >> Hi Ed, If I remember correctly, this is the second time that you have >> asked this question and it is an important one. Let me address it again. >> >> In short, any attachment (insistence) of any concept, whether fore or >> against, is the act of our discriminating mind working in the concept and >> logic domain, which is emptiness by nature. In others dualistic, or illusory. >> >> Mike and Edgar both said in similar ways, "there is nothing except, majority >> is in the formless (96% is dark energy and dark matter)" In other words, >> all concepts, logic and words are emptiness by nature. Yet all are valid, >> because they all are there serving the universe for some reason. >> >> By asserting one is valid or not valid, we are discriminating, categorizing >> emptiness itself. >> >> "Just This" is "ontological energy", is "chi", is "Buddha Nature", is "just >> sit", is "not thinking", is "...." They all serve the same purpose or >> objective, though they may differ in the detailed instructions. >> >> I trust most of the people in this forum emphasizes the fact "sitting", is >> an effective way to let our inner wisdom unfold, so that we could live in >> harmony. And all discussions are really for awaking ourselves. All are >> valid. Any instance or denial of any logic or concept is an "attachment to >> dharma". Dharma is everywhere and in every moment, (Diamond Sutra) >> >> In short, Chan is One. One is ALL.(Hsinhsin Ming) Unless we "see" >> clearly all forms (logic, concept) are valid as well as invalid(empty), then >> we are not in sync with the wisdom of the universe. In other words, all >> "effects", though impermanent and emptiness by nature, exist for a reason. >> >> We strive to live a life "as is", accept "as is", then we see "cause and >> effect", as well as its "nature of emptiness". >> >> jm >> >> >> On 1/14/2012 7:34 AM, ED wrote: >>  >> > >> > >> >Bill, >> > >> >To assert that 'cause and effect' is an illusory concept is dualistic - >> >and so is denial that the concept is illusory ??? >> > >> >Thanks, ED >> > >> >--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: >> >> >> >> Anthony, >> >> >> >> I don't consider myself 'more advanced' than you. In fact if anything >> >I would like to think I am 'less advanced' than you. In the case of zen >> >practice the more you unlearn and the less advanced you are from your >> >Original Nature the better. >> >> >> >> I believe the concept of 'cause-and-effect' (like all concepts) is >> >illusory. ONE of the reasons I believe this is because the concept of >> >cause-and-effect is completely dependent upon the belief in a >> >sequencial, serial, uni-directional flow of time. Cause-and-effect >> >requires at least two separate actions, one - the cause- which happens >> >before the other - the effect. >> >> >> >> There is no sequencial, serial, uni-directional flow of time. There is >> >only an ILLUSION of a sequencial, serial, unidirectional flow of time. >> >There is only Now. The past exists only in our mind - we call this >> >memory. The future exists only in our mind as a logical projection(based >> >on our belief in cause-and-effect) of a concatenation of our illusion of >> >Past and Now. >> >> >> >> And, to employ the also equally illusory power of logic I can state: >> >since the flow of time itself is illusory any concept based on time must >> >also be illusory. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps to retard you a little... >> >> >> >> ...Bill! >> > >> > >> > >
