Hi Ed, If I remember correctly, this is the second time that you have
asked this question and it is an important one. Let me address it again.
In short, any attachment (insistence) of any concept, whether fore or
against, is the act of our discriminating mind working in the concept
and logic domain, which is emptiness by nature. In others dualistic, or
illusory.
Mike and Edgar both said in similar ways, "there is nothing except,
majority is in the formless (96% is dark energy and dark matter)" In
other words, all concepts, logic and words are emptiness by nature. Yet
all are valid, because they all are there serving the universe for some
reason.
By asserting one is valid or not valid, we are discriminating,
categorizing emptiness itself.
"Just This" is "ontological energy", is "chi", is "Buddha Nature", is
"just sit", is "not thinking", is "...." They all serve the same
purpose or objective, though they may differ in the detailed instructions.
I trust most of the people in this forum emphasizes the fact "sitting",
is an effective way to let our inner wisdom unfold, so that we could
live in harmony. And all discussions are really for awaking ourselves.
All are valid. Any instance or denial of any logic or concept is an
"attachment to dharma". Dharma is everywhere and in every moment,
(Diamond Sutra)
In short, Chan is One. One is ALL.(Hsinhsin Ming) Unless we "see"
clearly all forms (logic, concept) are valid as well as invalid(empty),
then we are not in sync with the wisdom of the universe. In other
words, all "effects", though impermanent and emptiness by nature, exist
for a reason.
We strive to live a life "as is", accept "as is", then we see "cause and
effect", as well as its "nature of emptiness".
jm
On 1/14/2012 7:34 AM, ED wrote:
Bill,
To assert that 'cause and effect' is an illusory concept is dualistic -
and so is denial that the concept is illusory ???
Thanks, ED
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Anthony,
>
> I don't consider myself 'more advanced' than you. In fact if anything
I would like to think I am 'less advanced' than you. In the case of zen
practice the more you unlearn and the less advanced you are from your
Original Nature the better.
>
> I believe the concept of 'cause-and-effect' (like all concepts) is
illusory. ONE of the reasons I believe this is because the concept of
cause-and-effect is completely dependent upon the belief in a
sequencial, serial, uni-directional flow of time. Cause-and-effect
requires at least two separate actions, one - the cause- which happens
before the other - the effect.
>
> There is no sequencial, serial, uni-directional flow of time. There is
only an ILLUSION of a sequencial, serial, unidirectional flow of time.
There is only Now. The past exists only in our mind - we call this
memory. The future exists only in our mind as a logical projection(based
on our belief in cause-and-effect) of a concatenation of our illusion of
Past and Now.
>
> And, to employ the also equally illusory power of logic I can state:
since the flow of time itself is illusory any concept based on time must
also be illusory.
>
> I hope this helps to retard you a little...
>
> ...Bill!
