A more interesting question is: 'Is pain a part of a mental model?' And the answer (IMO) is again, YES!
The experience is real. The classification of it as 'pain' is the mental model. Whereas suffering is all mental model. IMO ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > YES!!!!! > Suffering is an integral part of most 'mental models' - ALL of them as > far as I know. > ...Bill! > --- In [email protected], Kristopher Grey <kris@> wrote: > > > > Stop squirming and answer the question! *L* > > > > I'll rephrase it for you to reduce wiggle room: Is 'suffering' a form > > of 'mental model'? > > > > KG > > > > On 9/12/2012 3:14 AM, billsmart wrote: > > > > > > Kris, > > > > > > 'My opinion' is my default 'mental model', or I guess I could call > it > > > 'Bill!'s mental model'. It is the default model I use to communicate > > > with others. Is it a better (closer to Reality) 'mental model' than > > > others? I couldn't claim that, but I can say it's the most > comfortable > > > for me. > > > > > > I posted many posts ago about having and using different 'tools in > my > > > tool bag'. Another way to say this is that I believe I can > communicate > > > using different 'mental models' - like the scientific 'mental model' > > > with Edgar, and the Christian 'mental model' with Merle, and the > > > Buddhist 'mental model' which those on the site who prefer that. > > > > > > I know I'm just simulating the other 'mental models', like a MAC OS > > > simulating a WIN OS to be able to run WIN-specific applications, but > I > > > think that's better than trying to force everyone to communicate > using > > > my default 'mental model' all the time. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: > > > > > > > > On 9/11/2012 9:23 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Pain is real. Suffering (in the way the term is used in > Buddhism) is > > > > > not real. It's a 'mental model' (aka 'illusion') which is the > result > > > > > of attachments which are in turn dependent upon the creation of > the > > > > > dualistic concept of 'self'. > > > > > > > > > > That's IMO anyway... > > > > > > > > Is the opinion 'real'? > > > > > > > > If so, then 'suffering' as a 'mental mode' is real in the same > way. If > > > > not, there's no suffering and no opinions of it. > > > > > > > > Either way, these appear. Only the form of expression differs. > > > > Real/unreal is just more thinking. No problem. Really. ;) > > > > > > > > KG > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
