Bill,
That's what I keep saying too, but full enlightenment only comes after a lot of
intellectual understanding. It is not the understanding that is enlightenment
but that gets you to the point you can have the experience...
Edgar
On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Bill! wrote:
> Edgar,
>
> I just posted a Reply that addresses your contention below. This is such an
> important issue that I'll restate it again in a slightly different way:
>
> Enlightenment ('satori', first awareness of Buddha Nature) ALWAYS comes from
> EXPERIENCE (sensory) and NEVER from thinking (intellectual activity which
> creates the World of Forms). In fact as I know you've often seen me remark it
> is ALMOST ALWAYS when the intellect is halted and the World of Forms (being
> illusory) dissolves that Buddha Nature can be clearly experienced.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
> >
> > Joe and Bill,
> >
> > It is true that sitting is almost never mentioned in the words of the
> > traditional Zen masters. Enlightenment Zen experience is almost always the
> > result of actions IN THE WORLD OF FORMS and consists of seeing the true
> > nature of the world of forms.
> >
> > You two are totally outside of and go against Zen tradition by the
> > exclusive emphasis you put on sitting....
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Joe wrote:
> >
> > > William,
> > >
> > > You've got a piece of it! The actual story has nothing to do with fools,
> > > and the word does not appear. The practitioner central to the story was
> > > ripe to awaken, through dedicated intense practice. Usually people awaken
> > > due to some cooperating cause. In his case (it was a monk), it was a
> > > sound, the sound of a stone striking a hollow bamboo.
> > >
> > > Many folks do not awaken while seated; some do.
> > >
> > > Hear the account by a modern Ch'an master, a young fellow aged only 36,
> > > Ven. Guo Jun (a Dharma heir of my teacher, the Ven. Sheng Yen). The video
> > > below is at the TRICYCLE Magazine website. The account of the awakening
> > > begins soon after the 05:50 minute mark of the video below:
> > >
> > > http://www.tricycle.com/web-exclusive/returning-home
> > >
> > > Best!,
> > >
> > > --Joe
> > > > William Rintala <brintala@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well then if not idiots, Fools then. I distinctly remember stories
> > > > whose main protaganists were dubbed fools. One was of someone sweeping
> > > > a walkway, and lost in discussion or contemplation, his broom struck a
> > > > tile and as it clattered away be was enlightened.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
