butting in..edgar this is your way..it is not necessary the way for all...
please consider those who see things differently..merle
Bill,
That's what I keep saying too, but full enlightenment only comes after a lot of
intellectual understanding. It is not the understanding that is enlightenment
but that gets you to the point you can have the experience...
Edgar
On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Bill! wrote:
>Edgar,
>
>I just posted a Reply that addresses your contention below. This is such an
>important issue that I'll restate it again in a slightly different way:
>
>Enlightenment ('satori', first awareness of Buddha Nature) ALWAYS comes from
>EXPERIENCE (sensory) and NEVER from thinking (intellectual activity which
>creates the World of Forms). In fact as I know you've often seen me remark it
>is ALMOST ALWAYS when the intellect is halted and the World of Forms (being
>illusory) dissolves that Buddha Nature can be clearly experienced.
>
>...Bill!
>
>--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>>
>> Joe and Bill,
>>
>> It is true that sitting is almost never mentioned in the words of the
>> traditional Zen masters. Enlightenment Zen experience is almost always the
>> result of actions IN THE WORLD OF FORMS and consists of seeing the true
>> nature of the world of forms.
>>
>> You two are totally outside of and go against Zen tradition by the exclusive
>> emphasis you put on sitting....
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Joe wrote:
>>
>> > William,
>> >
>> > You've got a piece of it! The actual story has nothing to do with fools,
>> > and the word does not appear. The practitioner central to the story was
>> > ripe to awaken, through dedicated intense practice. Usually people awaken
>> > due to some cooperating cause. In his case (it was a monk), it was a
>> > sound, the sound of a stone striking a hollow bamboo.
>> >
>> > Many folks do not awaken while seated; some do.
>> >
>> > Hear the account by a modern Ch'an master, a young fellow aged only 36,
>> > Ven. Guo Jun (a Dharma heir of my teacher, the Ven. Sheng Yen). The video
>> > below is at the TRICYCLE Magazine website. The account of the awakening
>> > begins soon after the 05:50 minute mark of the video below:
>> >
>> > http://www.tricycle.com/web-exclusive/returning-home
>> >
>> > Best!,
>> >
>> > --Joe
>> > > William Rintala <brintala@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Well then if not idiots, Fools then. I distinctly remember stories
>> > > whose main protaganists were dubbed fools. One was of someone sweeping
>> > > a walkway, and lost in discussion or contemplation, his broom struck a
>> > > tile and as it clattered away be was enlightened.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
