Edgar, There is not ONLY monistic experience. Monistic experience is Buddha Nature.
I am human. I also have Human Nature. Human Nature is characterized by having an intellect which generates dualism/pluralism - delusions. You shouldn't be asking ME where I think YOU come from. YOU should be asking YOUR SELF where YOU think I come from - that is if you want to practice zen. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > If there is only monistic experience, then where do all the dualistic > delusions that arise IN YOUR MIND come from? > > Where do I come from since you think I'm only a "delusion" in your mind? And > where does the delusion of "your mind" come from if there is only monistic > experience? > > Something just isn't kosher here.... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 10, 2013, at 7:15 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > When I wrote about the brain and these concepts below I said this was not > > my choice of analogy. It is inconsistent but was not my choice of > > analogies. I would never equate 'brain' and 'mind' or 'brain' and > > 'sentient'. > > > > For all I know there are sentient beings that don't have eyes, ears, noses, > > tongues or skin. And there may be intellectual beings that don't have > > brains. > > > > BUT...your question below is puzzling. You're jumbling up 'brain' and > > 'sentient being' and 'delusions' (self). > > > > Please rephrase your question and I'll try to answer it. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > How can there be "the brain of a sentient being" if there is no self? > > > > > > You keep trapping yourself in inconsistencies because your basic belief > > > is inconsistent... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > Again, using your language below which talks about the brain's > > > > functions which would not be my choice of analogy...so please don't > > > > quote me on this outside of this thread. > > > > > > > > The way I see it experience is one of the most basic and fundamental > > > > functions of the brain of a sentient being. In zen literature it has > > > > been called such names as 'Original Mind' and 'Your Face Before Your > > > > Mother Was Born'. I am saying experience precedes the processing of any > > > > experience by the intellect which in zen literature has been called > > > > such names as 'Small Mind' and 'Monkey Mind'. When the intellect arises > > > > it creates the delusion of dualism/pluralism. This is the key. The > > > > delusion of a separate, unique 'self' is probably one of the first > > > > delusions that arises, but is quickly followed by all the other > > > > subject/object delusions that Edgar calls 'forms' and some Buddhist > > > > sects refer to as 'dharma' (small 'd' - phenomena). > > > > > > > > I don't see experience as "slightly at an angle to..." the arising of > > > > duality and perception, but just preceding it. Experience is > > > > "not-beginning and not-ending", sometimes referred to as 'in the > > > > moment' or 'only now'. I do associate experience with what you call > > > > "the wonder of presence" which I think I would just call 'awareness' > > > > which is monisitic - as contrasted with 'consciousness' which is > > > > dualistic. > > > > > > > > Perceiving only is the normal human condition. > > > > > > > > Experiencing only is Buddha Nature. > > > > > > > > Perceiving and experiencing is what I believe many refer to as > > > > 'awakening' or 'enlightenment'. What you 'awaken' to is the realization > > > > that perceptions are delusions and only experience is real. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > One more question on this: > > > > > > > > > > Do you envision what you are calling experience to be a step in the > > > > > brains > > > > > normal functioning of responding to the environment in whatever way > > > > > that > > > > > the brain does that, or something slightly at an angle to the work of > > > > > transforming sensory stimulation into mental stimulation? Something of > > > > > which it could be said to be not-beginning and not-ending? Something > > > > > to > > > > > akin to what some people talk about as the wonder of presence? This > > > > > very > > > > > moment. That sort of thing. Right here, right now. > > > > > > > > > > Or perhaps some third thing I'm not seeing, a step in the subjective > > > > > side > > > > > of the brains functioning - something which is not from an eternal > > > > > perspective but is also not intended to be a description of the > > > > > body/mind > > > > > functioning but a description of the way the human notices the > > > > > absolute > > > > > along side the perception? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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