I'm with you 100% except for "preceding." To me it seems to be different categories - what you are calling experiencing is not a step in the process. I can't say what I think it is.
Anyways, thanks for your patience. And Edgar, there's no self, never has, regardless of whatever level of zen training one has undertaken. It's all just computational substrate, right? You can't cut bits out from the whole. --Chris Thanks, --Chris ch...@austin-lane.net +1-301-270-6524 On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: > Chris, > > Again, using your language below which talks about the brain's functions > which would not be my choice of analogy...so please don't quote me on this > outside of this thread. > > The way I see it experience is one of the most basic and fundamental > functions of the brain of a sentient being. In zen literature it has been > called such names as 'Original Mind' and 'Your Face Before Your Mother Was > Born'. I am saying experience precedes the processing of any experience by > the intellect which in zen literature has been called such names as 'Small > Mind' and 'Monkey Mind'. When the intellect arises it creates the delusion > of dualism/pluralism. This is the key. The delusion of a separate, unique > 'self' is probably one of the first delusions that arises, but is quickly > followed by all the other subject/object delusions that Edgar calls 'forms' > and some Buddhist sects refer to as 'dharma' (small 'd' - phenomena). > > I don't see experience as "slightly at an angle to..." the arising of > duality and perception, but just preceding it. Experience is > "not-beginning and not-ending", sometimes referred to as 'in the moment' or > 'only now'. I do associate experience with what you call "the wonder of > presence" which I think I would just call 'awareness' which is monisitic - > as contrasted with 'consciousness' which is dualistic. > > Perceiving only is the normal human condition. > > Experiencing only is Buddha Nature. > > Perceiving and experiencing is what I believe many refer to as 'awakening' > or 'enlightenment'. What you 'awaken' to is the realization that > perceptions are delusions and only experience is real. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > One more question on this: > > > > Do you envision what you are calling experience to be a step in the > brains > > normal functioning of responding to the environment in whatever way that > > the brain does that, or something slightly at an angle to the work of > > transforming sensory stimulation into mental stimulation? Something of > > which it could be said to be not-beginning and not-ending? Something to > > akin to what some people talk about as the wonder of presence? This very > > moment. That sort of thing. Right here, right now. > > > > Or perhaps some third thing I'm not seeing, a step in the subjective side > > of the brains functioning - something which is not from an eternal > > perspective but is also not intended to be a description of the body/mind > > functioning but a description of the way the human notices the absolute > > along side the perception? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
