RE: [ZION] Vote Now!

[Jonathan Scott]

Grimy Teeth
�2004 by Jonathan Scott
	Once upon a time there were two boys and 
they were the best of friends.  Unfortunately for 
both though, they were both about as lazy as they 
could be.  They would wake each morning from 
under their two piles of never washed blankets to 
stand in the middles of their never cleaned rooms 
to look out the grimy panes of their never washed 
windows to see the clutter that filled their 
never tended yards.  And they were each happy. 
The disgust of their environment apparently did 
not disgust them.  And each of them lived their 
lives contentedly amidst the grime, the roaches 
and the disease.

	One day, one boy's father saw his son 
desperately coughing as he lay contentedly upon 
his gray and sickly bed and the father knew that 
his son would soon become even more sick and 
possibly die.  He knew that if the boy did not 
clean his world now that he might not live much 
longer.  And so, out of fear for his son's well 
being, the father began to yell and scream at him.
	"HOW CAN YOU LIVE LIKE THIS?" he yelled.
	"ANIMALS ARE MORE KEMPT!  YOU SHAME ME 
WITH YOUR LAZINESS!" he screamed.
	The father then picked up his hand and 
struck the boy across his face and the boy fell 
to the ground in tears.
	The father then stood over the boy and 
threatened to strike him again if he did not 
change his ways.
	"I'm sorry.  I'm sorry.  I'm sorry." 
spoke the boy in absolute fear through his gray 
and grimy teeth.
	"CLEAN THIS ROOM AND THIS WORLD NOW OR 
WHEN I RETURN I SHALL BEAT YOU TO PIECES!" yelled 
and screamed the father.
	The father then stood and left the 
room...leaving the boy to sit on the ground sick 
with fear.
	And so, the boy stood and began to clean.  He was afraid.

	On that same day, the other's boy's 
father came to his room to see the filth and 
grime and disease of his son.  He also was amazed 
at the extent of the grime.  But, because the son 
was yet healthy and not yet in danger, he knew 
that he could take his time to teach the boy.
	"Son, this is not good.  You cannot live 
this way.  If you continue to live like this, you 
will catch some sort of disease and you might 
die.  Son, I love you.  Please stand up and 
clean."
	"OK father." said the boy through grimy 
teeth.  He then rolled over in his gray and 
stained bed and went back to sleep.
	The father was sad, but chose to let the 
boy choose his own life.  He kicked aside the 
empty cans and cereal boxes and made his way to 
the door of the bedroom.
	The next day, the father returned to see 
the boy still in bed.  On the boy's face there 
was a rash.  And when the father entered, the boy 
seemed to not be able to lay comfortably amidst 
the garbage.  His body seemed to be in pain.
	"Son, the pain that you are feeling and 
that rash that is on your face both come from the 
garbage that you live amongst.  If you clean, 
your body will heal.  Please clean.  I love you."
	The son, understanding somewhat the 
message of his father stood from his bed and 
began to clean.
	The father smiled and left.

	The first boy managed to clean his room 
before his father returned and therefore wasn't 
beaten to pieces by him.  As you can probably 
guess, that boy never loved his father.  He was 
too afraid of him to love him.  And so he lived 
the rest of his days in fear.  He was never very 
happy.  And he was never grateful for the health 
and long life that his father had given him.
	The second boy struggled with cleaning 
his entire days.  After years of filth, sickness, 
and inconvenience though, the boy began to 
understand and to change.  The boy eventually 
learned to clean of his own free will and loved 
his father for having cared enough about him to 
teach him.  He had health and a long life and 
loved his father till the end of his days.



 >-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
That's a cop out. A touchy, feely, liberal cop out.
You either need to
 >defend your position, or give ground.<

Oh phooey. You're itching for a fight and I'm not going to give
you one, no matter what names you call me or how you twist my
words.
As I noted earlier,  I emphasize the "teaching" instructions from
Christ; you emphasize the "repentance" message. Both lead to the
same end.  I just happen to think my way is more productive.
You're entitled to do as you will. Have a good time.  I'd argue
that teaching effectively always provokes repentance whereas
crying "repentance" from the rooftops does not always provoke
learning and true repentance. By the way, the last thing Christ
did on this earth was "forgive."
Ron Scott



The Bible is VERY clear that Christ preached
repentance. In Matthew
4:17, it tells us that "From that time Jesus began to
preach, and to
say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
This is literally the first thing he did after baptism
and his 40 day
fast.
What was the last thing Jesus did? He stood with his
disciples and told
them: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
ccommanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
world. Amen."
(Matthew 28:19-20).  And what did he command them to
teach? Repentance.
How about in our day?  Let's try D&C 19 on for size:
13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the
acommandments� which
you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph
Smith, Jun., in my
name;
14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;
15 Therefore I command you to repent�repent, lest I
asmite� you by the
rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and
your bsufferings�
be sore�how sore you know not, how exquisite you know
not, yea, how hard
to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have asuffered� these things for
all, that they
might not bsuffer if they would crepent;
17 But if they would not repent they must asuffer� even as I"
So, while he will forgive IF we repent, we must suffer
even as He did,
if we do not. In fact the blessing of forgiveness and
mercy is something
I truly hope and wish for, but I don't gamble on it. I
work for my
salvation, repenting as fast and as hard as I can, to
ensure I merit
that forgiveness.
As to those who believe Christ is super-forgiving of
sinners, let's see
what Nephi says in 2Nephi28:
"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat�,
drink, and be
bmerry; nevertheless, fear God�he will justify� in
committing a little
sin�; yea, elie� a little, take the advantage of one
because of his
words, dig a fpit� for thy neighbor; there is gno� harm
in this; and do
all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be
that we are
guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at
last we shall be
saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after
this manner,
false and vain and foolish� cdoctrines�, and shall be
puffed up in their
hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from
the Lord; and
their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood� of the saints shall cry from the
ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away�; they have become
corrupted�.
12 Because of pride�, and because of false� teachers, and false
doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and
their churches are
lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up."
 >
So, Nephi tells us that some in the last days are going
to push the
extreme forgiveness idea of Christ. I'm sure you aren't
as extreme as
some evangelicals who think that a mere belief in Christ merits
exaltation. But such are called false teachers with
false doctrine. And,
in fact, the blood of the saints shall cry against them!
Now, I believe God is very forgiving. After all, he
offers a kingdom of
glory to almost all his children. However, that does
not extend to
exaltation. D&C 76 describes the exalted as the valiant
ones, not the
wishy-washy. In Revelation, God says he will spew the
 >lukewarm out, so
as to give us no misgivings as to what is required for
exaltation.
Now, just where are these scriptures that you seem to
believe in? And
no, it isn't a matter of semantics. We agree that
Christ is merciful,
but modern prophets have also told us that mercy cannot
rob justice.
Gary Smith





Ron Scott wrote:
 Gary:

 Look, I don't think we're ever going to agree.  I'm
probably as
 aware as you are as to what God taught and what he didn't. I
 think are differences are in approach. I'm inclined
to teach the
 gospel, you seem inclined to preach repentance.  I'm
inclined to
 believe that God must be a pretty forgiving God if
he's willing
 to forgive the sins of repentant sinners like you and me.  I
 believe that God wants to include as many people as
He possibly
 can...and that it's my job to do my bit to ensure the
roster is
 as large as possible.  You take a different tack.
Good luck to
 you.  Our purposes are the same, more or less even if
our methods
 are different.

 Ron

 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:42 PM
 >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >Subject: [ZION] Vote Now!
 >
 >
 >How about his prophecy that Jerusalem would be
 >destroyed by God for its
 >sins?  Since Christ is God, he was doing more than just
 >foreseeing an
 >event - he was being Judge, Jury and Executioner.  He
 >will do it again at
 >the Second Coming.
 >We must remember that the Mosaic Law was a lower law -
 >but still a law of
 >God.  Regardless of the punishment, the sin of
 >homosexuality was still a
 >sin that was punishable under the law.  In earlier days
 >in the USA, it
 >was also considered a crime punishable under the law.
 >And Just because it is no longer punished, does not
 >make it heinous or
 >sinful.
 >
 >And what Christ taught was not forgiveness, but
 >repentance.  Forgiveness
 >is what was given AFTER people repented.  Christ did
not teach
 >forgiveness to the Pharisees, but called them to
 >repentance. He did not
 >preach forgiveness to the Jews or Samaritans, but
 >repentance.  He
 >forgave, because it was within him to forgive those He
 >chose to forgive.
 >Had his mission been nothing but forgiveness, he would
 >forgive all
 >mankind, including Cain.
 >
 >Instead, he came to bring balance between Justice and
 >Mercy, but only on
 >condition of repentance, which is what he preached.
 >
 >I think too many get fixated on what seems to be God's
 >leniency. In
 >reality, the commandments are clear, as are the rewards
 >and punishments.
 >We are not to judge where a person goes to in the next
 >life, but we are
 >to judge right from wrong. The JST of Matthew 7:1 tells
 >us to judge
 >righteous judgment.  I don't condemn people to hell,
 >that is God's job. I
 >DO condemn sin, telling the sinner that if change does
 >not occur in
 >his/her life, the person risks hellfire.  Calling
 >people to repentance is
 >a good thing to do, because only in repentance can God
 >bring forgiveness.
 >
 >K'aya K'ama,
 >
 >Gerald (Gary) Smith
 >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html
 >LDS Evidences,
 >Family History, Food Storage, etc.
 >
 >
 >RB Scott wrote:
 >
 >>  Seriously, I don't
 >>recall Christ preaching "death" for any
offense...well, murder
 >> >>perhaps (but I don't recall it).
 >
 >Notwithstanding fairly twisted and bizarre
interpretations, what
 >Christ taught was forgiveness, not death.
 >
 >I think too many get fixated and judging others, relishing
 >damning others to hell. What Christ taught was that it is our
 >responsibility to forgive all, to leave judgements to Him.  I
 >suspect when that great and dreadful day arrives, more
 >than a few
 >of us will be very, very surpised.
 >
 >>
 >
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 >
 >



Gerald (Gary) Smith
geraldsmith@ juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom
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--
Jonathan Scott
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