I'm lousy at parables. Please explain.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:23 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
>
>
>Grimy Teeth
>©2004 by Jonathan Scott
>
>       Once upon a time there were two boys and
>they were the best of friends.  Unfortunately for
>both though, they were both about as lazy as they
>could be.  They would wake each morning from
>under their two piles of never washed blankets to
>stand in the middles of their never cleaned rooms
>to look out the grimy panes of their never washed
>windows to see the clutter that filled their
>never tended yards.  And they were each happy.
>The disgust of their environment apparently did
>not disgust them.  And each of them lived their
>lives contentedly amidst the grime, the roaches
>and the disease.
>
>       One day, one boy's father saw his son
>desperately coughing as he lay contentedly upon
>his gray and sickly bed and the father knew that
>his son would soon become even more sick and
>possibly die.  He knew that if the boy did not
>clean his world now that he might not live much
>longer.  And so, out of fear for his son's well
>being, the father began to yell and scream at him.
>       "HOW CAN YOU LIVE LIKE THIS?" he yelled.
>       "ANIMALS ARE MORE KEMPT!  YOU SHAME ME
>WITH YOUR LAZINESS!" he screamed.
>       The father then picked up his hand and
>struck the boy across his face and the boy fell
>to the ground in tears.
>       The father then stood over the boy and
>threatened to strike him again if he did not
>change his ways.
>       "I'm sorry.  I'm sorry.  I'm sorry."
>spoke the boy in absolute fear through his gray
>and grimy teeth.
>       "CLEAN THIS ROOM AND THIS WORLD NOW OR
>WHEN I RETURN I SHALL BEAT YOU TO PIECES!" yelled
>and screamed the father.
>       The father then stood and left the
>room...leaving the boy to sit on the ground sick
>with fear.
>       And so, the boy stood and began to clean.  He was afraid.
>
>       On that same day, the other's boy's
>father came to his room to see the filth and
>grime and disease of his son.  He also was amazed
>at the extent of the grime.  But, because the son
>was yet healthy and not yet in danger, he knew
>that he could take his time to teach the boy.
>       "Son, this is not good.  You cannot live
>this way.  If you continue to live like this, you
>will catch some sort of disease and you might
>die.  Son, I love you.  Please stand up and
>clean."
>       "OK father." said the boy through grimy
>teeth.  He then rolled over in his gray and
>stained bed and went back to sleep.
>       The father was sad, but chose to let the
>boy choose his own life.  He kicked aside the
>empty cans and cereal boxes and made his way to
>the door of the bedroom.
>       The next day, the father returned to see
>the boy still in bed.  On the boy's face there
>was a rash.  And when the father entered, the boy
>seemed to not be able to lay comfortably amidst
>the garbage.  His body seemed to be in pain.
>       "Son, the pain that you are feeling and
>that rash that is on your face both come from the
>garbage that you live amongst.  If you clean,
>your body will heal.  Please clean.  I love you."
>       The son, understanding somewhat the
>message of his father stood from his bed and
>began to clean.
>       The father smiled and left.
>
>       The first boy managed to clean his room
>before his father returned and therefore wasn't
>beaten to pieces by him.  As you can probably
>guess, that boy never loved his father.  He was
>too afraid of him to love him.  And so he lived
>the rest of his days in fear.  He was never very
>happy.  And he was never grateful for the health
>and long life that his father had given him.
>       The second boy struggled with cleaning
>his entire days.  After years of filth, sickness,
>and inconvenience though, the boy began to
>understand and to change.  The boy eventually
>learned to clean of his own free will and loved
>his father for having cared enough about him to
>teach him.  He had health and a long life and
>loved his father till the end of his days.
>
>
>
>>  >-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:04 PM
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
>>>
>>>
>>>That's a cop out. A touchy, feely, liberal cop out.
>>>You either need to
>>  >defend your position, or give ground.<
>>
>>Oh phooey. You're itching for a fight and I'm not going to give
>>you one, no matter what names you call me or how you twist my
>>words.
>>
>>As I noted earlier,  I emphasize the "teaching"
>instructions from
>>Christ; you emphasize the "repentance" message. Both
>lead to the
>>same end.  I just happen to think my way is more productive.
>>You're entitled to do as you will. Have a good time.  I'd argue
>>that teaching effectively always provokes repentance whereas
>>crying "repentance" from the rooftops does not always provoke
>>learning and true repentance. By the way, the last thing Christ
>>did on this earth was "forgive."
>>
>>Ron Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>>The Bible is VERY clear that Christ preached
>>>repentance. In Matthew
>>>4:17, it tells us that "From that time Jesus began to
>>>preach, and to
>>>say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
>>>
>>>This is literally the first thing he did after baptism
>>>and his 40 day
>>>fast.
>>>
>>>What was the last thing Jesus did? He stood with his
>>>disciples and told
>>>them: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
>>>baptizing them in the
>>>name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
>>>Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
>>>ccommanded you:
>>>and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
>>>world. Amen."
>>>(Matthew 28:19-20).  And what did he command them to
>>>teach? Repentance.
>>>
>>>How about in our day?  Let's try D&C 19 on for size:
>>>13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the
>>>acommandments• which
>>>you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph
>>>Smith, Jun., in my
>>>name;
>>>14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;
>>>15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I
>>>asmite• you by the
>>>rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and
>>>your bsufferings•
>>>be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know
>>>not, yea, how hard
>>>to bear you know not.
>>>16 For behold, I, God, have asuffered• these things for
>>>all, that they
>>>might not bsuffer if they would crepent;
>>>17 But if they would not repent they must asuffer• even as I"
>>>
>>>So, while he will forgive IF we repent, we must suffer
>>>even as He did,
>>>if we do not. In fact the blessing of forgiveness and
>>>mercy is something
>>>I truly hope and wish for, but I don't gamble on it. I
>>>work for my
>>>salvation, repenting as fast and as hard as I can, to
>>>ensure I merit
>>>that forgiveness.
>>>
>>>As to those who believe Christ is super-forgiving of
>>>sinners, let's see
>>>what Nephi says in 2Nephi28:
>>>"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat•,
>>>drink, and be
>>>bmerry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify• in
>>>committing a little
>>>sin•; yea, elie• a little, take the advantage of one
>>>because of his
>>>words, dig a fpit• for thy neighbor; there is gno• harm
>>>in this; and do
>>>all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be
>>>that we are
>>>guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at
>>>last we shall be
>>>saved in the kingdom of God.
>>>9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after
>>>this manner,
>>>false and vain and foolish• cdoctrines•, and shall be
>>>puffed up in their
>>>hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from
>>>the Lord; and
>>>their works shall be in the dark.
>>>10 And the blood• of the saints shall cry from the
>>>ground against them.
>>>11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away•; they have become
>>>corrupted•.
>>>12 Because of pride•, and because of false• teachers,
>and false
>>>doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and
>>>their churches are
>>>lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up."
>>  >
>>>So, Nephi tells us that some in the last days are going
>>>to push the
>>>extreme forgiveness idea of Christ. I'm sure you aren't
>>>as extreme as
>>>some evangelicals who think that a mere belief in
>Christ merits
>>>exaltation. But such are called false teachers with
>>>false doctrine. And,
>>>in fact, the blood of the saints shall cry against them!
>>>
>>>Now, I believe God is very forgiving. After all, he
>>>offers a kingdom of
>>>glory to almost all his children. However, that does
>>>not extend to
>>>exaltation. D&C 76 describes the exalted as the valiant
>>>ones, not the
>>>wishy-washy. In Revelation, God says he will spew the
>>  >lukewarm out, so
>>>as to give us no misgivings as to what is required for
>>>exaltation.
>>>
>>>Now, just where are these scriptures that you seem to
>>>believe in? And
>>>no, it isn't a matter of semantics. We agree that
>>>Christ is merciful,
>>>but modern prophets have also told us that mercy cannot
>>>rob justice.
>>>
>>>Gary Smith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ron Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Gary:
>>>>
>>>>  Look, I don't think we're ever going to agree.  I'm
>>>probably as
>>>>  aware as you are as to what God taught and what he
>didn't. I
>>>>  think are differences are in approach. I'm inclined
>>>to teach the
>>>>  gospel, you seem inclined to preach repentance.  I'm
>>>inclined to
>>>>  believe that God must be a pretty forgiving God if
>>>he's willing
>>>>  to forgive the sins of repentant sinners like you
>and me.  I
>>>>  believe that God wants to include as many people as
>>>He possibly
>>>>  can...and that it's my job to do my bit to ensure the
>>>roster is
>>>>  as large as possible.  You take a different tack.
>>>Good luck to
>>>>  you.  Our purposes are the same, more or less even if
>>>our methods
>>>>  are different.
>>>>
>>>>  Ron
>>>>
>>>>  >-----Original Message-----
>>>>  >From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>  >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:42 PM
>>>>  >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>  >Subject: [ZION] Vote Now!
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  >How about his prophecy that Jerusalem would be
>>>>  >destroyed by God for its
>>>>  >sins?  Since Christ is God, he was doing more than just
>>>>  >foreseeing an
>>>>  >event - he was being Judge, Jury and Executioner.  He
>>>>  >will do it again at
>>>>  >the Second Coming.
>>>>  >We must remember that the Mosaic Law was a lower law -
>>>>  >but still a law of
>>>>  >God.  Regardless of the punishment, the sin of
>>>>  >homosexuality was still a
>>>>  >sin that was punishable under the law.  In earlier days
>>>>  >in the USA, it
>>>>  >was also considered a crime punishable under the law.
>>>>  >And Just because it is no longer punished, does not
>>>>  >make it heinous or
>>>>  >sinful.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >And what Christ taught was not forgiveness, but
>>>>  >repentance.  Forgiveness
>>>>  >is what was given AFTER people repented.  Christ did
>>>not teach
>>>>  >forgiveness to the Pharisees, but called them to
>>>>  >repentance. He did not
>>>>  >preach forgiveness to the Jews or Samaritans, but
>>>>  >repentance.  He
>>>>  >forgave, because it was within him to forgive those He
>>>>  >chose to forgive.
>>>>  >Had his mission been nothing but forgiveness, he would
>>>>  >forgive all
>>>>  >mankind, including Cain.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >Instead, he came to bring balance between Justice and
>>>>  >Mercy, but only on
>>>>  >condition of repentance, which is what he preached.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >I think too many get fixated on what seems to be God's
>>>>  >leniency. In
>>>>  >reality, the commandments are clear, as are the rewards
>>>>  >and punishments.
>>>>  >We are not to judge where a person goes to in the next
>>>>  >life, but we are
>>>>  >to judge right from wrong. The JST of Matthew 7:1 tells
>>>>  >us to judge
>>>>  >righteous judgment.  I don't condemn people to hell,
>>>>  >that is God's job. I
>>>>  >DO condemn sin, telling the sinner that if change does
>>>>  >not occur in
>>>>  >his/her life, the person risks hellfire.  Calling
>>>>  >people to repentance is
>>>>  >a good thing to do, because only in repentance can God
>>>>  >bring forgiveness.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >K'aya K'ama,
>>>>  >
>>>>  >Gerald (Gary) Smith
>>>>  >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>  >http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html
>>>>  >LDS Evidences,
>>>>  >Family History, Food Storage, etc.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  >RB Scott wrote:
>>>>  >
>>>>  >>  Seriously, I don't
>>>>  >>recall Christ preaching "death" for any
>>>offense...well, murder
>>  >> >>perhaps (but I don't recall it).
>>>>  >
>>>>  >Notwithstanding fairly twisted and bizarre
>>>interpretations, what
>>>>  >Christ taught was forgiveness, not death.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >I think too many get fixated and judging others, relishing
>>>>  >damning others to hell. What Christ taught was
>that it is our
>>>>  >responsibility to forgive all, to leave
>judgements to Him.  I
>>>>  >suspect when that great and dreadful day arrives, more
>>>>  >than a few
>>>>  >of us will be very, very surpised.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >>
>>>>  >
>>>>  >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>  >//////////////////////
>>>>  >///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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>>>>  >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>  >/////////////////////
>>>>  -----------
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Gerald (Gary) Smith
>>>geraldsmith@ juno.com
>>>http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom
>>>
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>>--
>>
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>
>
>--
>Jonathan Scott
>--
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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