I'm lousy at parables. Please explain. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jonathan Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:23 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! > > >Grimy Teeth >�2004 by Jonathan Scott > > Once upon a time there were two boys and >they were the best of friends. Unfortunately for >both though, they were both about as lazy as they >could be. They would wake each morning from >under their two piles of never washed blankets to >stand in the middles of their never cleaned rooms >to look out the grimy panes of their never washed >windows to see the clutter that filled their >never tended yards. And they were each happy. >The disgust of their environment apparently did >not disgust them. And each of them lived their >lives contentedly amidst the grime, the roaches >and the disease. > > One day, one boy's father saw his son >desperately coughing as he lay contentedly upon >his gray and sickly bed and the father knew that >his son would soon become even more sick and >possibly die. He knew that if the boy did not >clean his world now that he might not live much >longer. And so, out of fear for his son's well >being, the father began to yell and scream at him. > "HOW CAN YOU LIVE LIKE THIS?" he yelled. > "ANIMALS ARE MORE KEMPT! YOU SHAME ME >WITH YOUR LAZINESS!" he screamed. > The father then picked up his hand and >struck the boy across his face and the boy fell >to the ground in tears. > The father then stood over the boy and >threatened to strike him again if he did not >change his ways. > "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry." >spoke the boy in absolute fear through his gray >and grimy teeth. > "CLEAN THIS ROOM AND THIS WORLD NOW OR >WHEN I RETURN I SHALL BEAT YOU TO PIECES!" yelled >and screamed the father. > The father then stood and left the >room...leaving the boy to sit on the ground sick >with fear. > And so, the boy stood and began to clean. He was afraid. > > On that same day, the other's boy's >father came to his room to see the filth and >grime and disease of his son. He also was amazed >at the extent of the grime. But, because the son >was yet healthy and not yet in danger, he knew >that he could take his time to teach the boy. > "Son, this is not good. You cannot live >this way. If you continue to live like this, you >will catch some sort of disease and you might >die. Son, I love you. Please stand up and >clean." > "OK father." said the boy through grimy >teeth. He then rolled over in his gray and >stained bed and went back to sleep. > The father was sad, but chose to let the >boy choose his own life. He kicked aside the >empty cans and cereal boxes and made his way to >the door of the bedroom. > The next day, the father returned to see >the boy still in bed. On the boy's face there >was a rash. And when the father entered, the boy >seemed to not be able to lay comfortably amidst >the garbage. His body seemed to be in pain. > "Son, the pain that you are feeling and >that rash that is on your face both come from the >garbage that you live amongst. If you clean, >your body will heal. Please clean. I love you." > The son, understanding somewhat the >message of his father stood from his bed and >began to clean. > The father smiled and left. > > The first boy managed to clean his room >before his father returned and therefore wasn't >beaten to pieces by him. As you can probably >guess, that boy never loved his father. He was >too afraid of him to love him. And so he lived >the rest of his days in fear. He was never very >happy. And he was never grateful for the health >and long life that his father had given him. > The second boy struggled with cleaning >his entire days. After years of filth, sickness, >and inconvenience though, the boy began to >understand and to change. The boy eventually >learned to clean of his own free will and loved >his father for having cared enough about him to >teach him. He had health and a long life and >loved his father till the end of his days. > > > >> >-----Original Message----- >>>From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:04 PM >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! >>> >>> >>>That's a cop out. A touchy, feely, liberal cop out. >>>You either need to >> >defend your position, or give ground.< >> >>Oh phooey. You're itching for a fight and I'm not going to give >>you one, no matter what names you call me or how you twist my >>words. >> >>As I noted earlier, I emphasize the "teaching" >instructions from >>Christ; you emphasize the "repentance" message. Both >lead to the >>same end. I just happen to think my way is more productive. >>You're entitled to do as you will. Have a good time. I'd argue >>that teaching effectively always provokes repentance whereas >>crying "repentance" from the rooftops does not always provoke >>learning and true repentance. By the way, the last thing Christ >>did on this earth was "forgive." >> >>Ron Scott >> >> >> >>>The Bible is VERY clear that Christ preached >>>repentance. In Matthew >>>4:17, it tells us that "From that time Jesus began to >>>preach, and to >>>say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." >>> >>>This is literally the first thing he did after baptism >>>and his 40 day >>>fast. >>> >>>What was the last thing Jesus did? He stood with his >>>disciples and told >>>them: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, >>>baptizing them in the >>>name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: >>>Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have >>>ccommanded you: >>>and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the >>>world. Amen." >>>(Matthew 28:19-20). And what did he command them to >>>teach? Repentance. >>> >>>How about in our day? Let's try D&C 19 on for size: >>>13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the >>>acommandments� which >>>you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph >>>Smith, Jun., in my >>>name; >>>14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them; >>>15 Therefore I command you to repent�repent, lest I >>>asmite� you by the >>>rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and >>>your bsufferings� >>>be sore�how sore you know not, how exquisite you know >>>not, yea, how hard >>>to bear you know not. >>>16 For behold, I, God, have asuffered� these things for >>>all, that they >>>might not bsuffer if they would crepent; >>>17 But if they would not repent they must asuffer� even as I" >>> >>>So, while he will forgive IF we repent, we must suffer >>>even as He did, >>>if we do not. In fact the blessing of forgiveness and >>>mercy is something >>>I truly hope and wish for, but I don't gamble on it. I >>>work for my >>>salvation, repenting as fast and as hard as I can, to >>>ensure I merit >>>that forgiveness. >>> >>>As to those who believe Christ is super-forgiving of >>>sinners, let's see >>>what Nephi says in 2Nephi28: >>>"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat�, >>>drink, and be >>>bmerry; nevertheless, fear God�he will justify� in >>>committing a little >>>sin�; yea, elie� a little, take the advantage of one >>>because of his >>>words, dig a fpit� for thy neighbor; there is gno� harm >>>in this; and do >>>all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be >>>that we are >>>guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at >>>last we shall be >>>saved in the kingdom of God. >>>9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after >>>this manner, >>>false and vain and foolish� cdoctrines�, and shall be >>>puffed up in their >>>hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from >>>the Lord; and >>>their works shall be in the dark. >>>10 And the blood� of the saints shall cry from the >>>ground against them. >>>11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away�; they have become >>>corrupted�. >>>12 Because of pride�, and because of false� teachers, >and false >>>doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and >>>their churches are >>>lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up." >> > >>>So, Nephi tells us that some in the last days are going >>>to push the >>>extreme forgiveness idea of Christ. I'm sure you aren't >>>as extreme as >>>some evangelicals who think that a mere belief in >Christ merits >>>exaltation. But such are called false teachers with >>>false doctrine. And, >>>in fact, the blood of the saints shall cry against them! >>> >>>Now, I believe God is very forgiving. After all, he >>>offers a kingdom of >>>glory to almost all his children. However, that does >>>not extend to >>>exaltation. D&C 76 describes the exalted as the valiant >>>ones, not the >>>wishy-washy. In Revelation, God says he will spew the >> >lukewarm out, so >>>as to give us no misgivings as to what is required for >>>exaltation. >>> >>>Now, just where are these scriptures that you seem to >>>believe in? And >>>no, it isn't a matter of semantics. We agree that >>>Christ is merciful, >>>but modern prophets have also told us that mercy cannot >>>rob justice. >>> >>>Gary Smith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Ron Scott wrote: >>>> >>>> Gary: >>>> >>>> Look, I don't think we're ever going to agree. I'm >>>probably as >>>> aware as you are as to what God taught and what he >didn't. I >>>> think are differences are in approach. I'm inclined >>>to teach the >>>> gospel, you seem inclined to preach repentance. I'm >>>inclined to >>>> believe that God must be a pretty forgiving God if >>>he's willing >>>> to forgive the sins of repentant sinners like you >and me. I >>>> believe that God wants to include as many people as >>>He possibly >>>> can...and that it's my job to do my bit to ensure the >>>roster is >>>> as large as possible. You take a different tack. >>>Good luck to >>>> you. Our purposes are the same, more or less even if >>>our methods >>>> are different. >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >-----Original Message----- >>>> >From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:42 PM >>>> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >Subject: [ZION] Vote Now! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >How about his prophecy that Jerusalem would be >>>> >destroyed by God for its >>>> >sins? Since Christ is God, he was doing more than just >>>> >foreseeing an >>>> >event - he was being Judge, Jury and Executioner. He >>>> >will do it again at >>>> >the Second Coming. >>>> >We must remember that the Mosaic Law was a lower law - >>>> >but still a law of >>>> >God. Regardless of the punishment, the sin of >>>> >homosexuality was still a >>>> >sin that was punishable under the law. In earlier days >>>> >in the USA, it >>>> >was also considered a crime punishable under the law. >>>> >And Just because it is no longer punished, does not >>>> >make it heinous or >>>> >sinful. >>>> > >>>> >And what Christ taught was not forgiveness, but >>>> >repentance. Forgiveness >>>> >is what was given AFTER people repented. Christ did >>>not teach >>>> >forgiveness to the Pharisees, but called them to >>>> >repentance. He did not >>>> >preach forgiveness to the Jews or Samaritans, but >>>> >repentance. He >>>> >forgave, because it was within him to forgive those He >>>> >chose to forgive. >>>> >Had his mission been nothing but forgiveness, he would >>>> >forgive all >>>> >mankind, including Cain. >>>> > >>>> >Instead, he came to bring balance between Justice and >>>> >Mercy, but only on >>>> >condition of repentance, which is what he preached. >>>> > >>>> >I think too many get fixated on what seems to be God's >>>> >leniency. In >>>> >reality, the commandments are clear, as are the rewards >>>> >and punishments. >>>> >We are not to judge where a person goes to in the next >>>> >life, but we are >>>> >to judge right from wrong. The JST of Matthew 7:1 tells >>>> >us to judge >>>> >righteous judgment. I don't condemn people to hell, >>>> >that is God's job. I >>>> >DO condemn sin, telling the sinner that if change does >>>> >not occur in >>>> >his/her life, the person risks hellfire. Calling >>>> >people to repentance is >>>> >a good thing to do, because only in repentance can God >>>> >bring forgiveness. >>>> > >>>> >K'aya K'ama, >>>> > >>>> >Gerald (Gary) Smith >>>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html >>>> >LDS Evidences, >>>> >Family History, Food Storage, etc. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >RB Scott wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Seriously, I don't >>>> >>recall Christ preaching "death" for any >>>offense...well, murder >> >> >>perhaps (but I don't recall it). >>>> > >>>> >Notwithstanding fairly twisted and bizarre >>>interpretations, what >>>> >Christ taught was forgiveness, not death. >>>> > >>>> >I think too many get fixated and judging others, relishing >>>> >damning others to hell. What Christ taught was >that it is our >>>> >responsibility to forgive all, to leave >judgements to Him. I >>>> >suspect when that great and dreadful day arrives, more >>>> >than a few >>>> >of us will be very, very surpised. >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >>>> >////////////////////// >>>> >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >> >> >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >>>> >//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >>>> >///////////////////// >>>> ----------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Gerald (Gary) Smith >>>geraldsmith@ juno.com >>>http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom >>> >>>//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >>>////////////////////// >>>/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >>>/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >>>//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >>>///////////////////// >>-- >> >>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >/////////////////////// >>/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >>/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >////////////////////// > > >-- >Jonathan Scott >-- >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >////////////////////// >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >///////////////////// --
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