Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 November 2005 22:01, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > Messing up Zope 3 is specifically not the intention of this proposal. It
> > says so explicitly in the "Your questions answered" section.
>
> Though it is not your intend, the merge would in fact mess up the trunk,
> specifically from a Zope 3 developer's perspective.

Really, *how* does it mess up the trunk? Half of the packages of Zope 2 are 
also in Zope 3
because they're either ZODB or Zope3-related anyway. Another quarter of the 
packages will
go away within one year, I think (such as DocumentTemplate, StructuredText, 
etc., as they
are duplicate implementations of zope.documenttemplate, zope.structuredtext, 
etc.).

> > You state correctly that "some Zope 3 developers don't care about Zope2".
> > This might seem like a suitable point of view, but as Martijn pointed out
> > very well, it's also a foolish one. It limits the acceptance of Zope 3
> > within the Zope community.
>
> How is it foolish? I have no need for Zope 2, so why should I maintain it?

No one is asking you to maintain it. You're confusing maintance with bringing 
up to speed
with refactorings.

>  There is nothing in for me here.

That I doubt. There's a lot of code and experience in the Zope 2 community 
which might be
underestimated...

> > Zope 2 is a mess, I give you that. I'm not asking any Zope 3 developer to
> > re-embrace it, though.
>
> But I have to relearn it for the pure purpose of developing on the Zope 3
> trunk. That's just not right!

No one says you have relearn Zope 2; you merely have to run the tests. See my 
other post
about this.

> > In fact, the idea of this proposal is not that Zope
> > 2 is going to stay with us forever. It is about speeding up the convergence
> > process! There are a good amount of people, Martijn and me included, who
> > are working towards improving Zope 2 and we simply want to attract more
> > people to help us.
>
> Yeah, you are forcing me to help you out!

So are you with zope.wfmc, zope.contentprovider, zope.viewlet and all those 
other things
that you and others checked into Zope 3 and I have no clue about whatsoever. 
Sorry, this
argument is moot because not too long ago the Zope 3 repository was strongly 
advertised
as a place for people to put their Zope3-related software so that it would be 
kept up to
speed with refactorings and such. If that offer was for non-Zope-core software, 
it should
especially be good for Zope itself.

> > The few "Zope 3 developers [that] don't care
> > about Zope2" are the minority and I think they could use the help from the
> > rest of the Zope community.
>
> It depends on the perspective you take. If you look at the whole community,
> then yes, we are probably in the minority (even though that counting all
> people that voted so far, there are more -1 votes). A more appropriate sample
> would be the people actually contributing to Zope 3 on a regular basis or the
> ones that exclusively use Zope 3. Using this group, we have about an 80-90%
> -1 vote count.

Sure, I realize that. Note however that I'm looking to get more Zope 3 
contributors with
this action. As I've pointed out before, I treat a +1 from an active Zope 2 
developer as
a commitment towards Zope 3 contributions. Even pure Zope 3 developers will 
benefit from
that because it takes work off their shoulders.

Philipp


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