[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've played a lot of Renaissance polyphony in facsimile (on sackbut), and in 
that context, secunda pars means exactly what Ron describes. With large numbers 
of voices, you will sometimes see XYZ Vox to indicate a part/voice by number, 
such as Quinta Vox, but I've never seen "pars" used to indicate a part/voice .

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Andrico
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 12:35 PM
To: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.; Jussi-Pekka Lajunen; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

   Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_ universally
   applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived in
   more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a long
   poem or another sectional text.

   For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568, you'll
   find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute setting
   of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.  The rubrics indicate that the motet
   was composed in three sequential sections.  On the following page, f.
   59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
   carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the sacred
   songs is accommodated for two lutes).  The two different lute parts are
   not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
   indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for lutes
   tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside down
   so both can play from the same book.

   There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
   separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
   different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor, such as
   found in Pacoloni, 1564.  Nevertheless, _secunda pars_  is not likely
   an indication for a separate instrumental part.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Frank A. Gerbode,
   M.D. 
   Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
   To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

   Oh!  I didn't find that score.  Thanks so much! One approach would be
   to
   intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute part
   (maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute could
   play the complete piece.
   Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too might
   have
   to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
   All that is a bit of an undertaking.
   Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
   --Sarge
   On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
   > No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration of
   > rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long section
   > not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1], you can
   > see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25, for five
   > semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30–32, for three
   > semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38–39 and for 13
   > semibreves on pages 40–42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
   section
   > on pages 33–34 that is missing from the tablature.
   >
   > There is no second lute part on the spreads in question (neither in
   > red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that the
   > possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.
   >
   > [1]
   >
   
[1]https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fks.petruccimusiclibrary.org%2Ffiles%2Fimglnks%2Fusimg%2F4%2F41%2FIMSLP145data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d122b2434f14668a1e508d855c0e2c1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637353634211155008sdata=WpwxBSNuL32CEyzsR%2F2csoPK5fkznKS2gzIkUs0JqXA%3Dreserved=0
   459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   >
   > Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:
   >> Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
   >> the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there
   are
   >> apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off
   >> the same
   >> MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may
   >> not be a
   >> second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking
   in
   >> some other random MS.
   >> I we ignore the # º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all
   >> right to
   >> my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
   >> different...
   >> Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find a
   >> second
   >> part. Perhaps it would have similar notations to indicate
   missing
   >> bars,
   >> meant to be played from the version in Eysert.
   >> Have you seen notations like this 

[LUTE] Re: A trivia question

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Someone asked this question at one of Jacob Heringman's LSA classes, and he 
mentioned an intabulation by Bakfark that ran something like 17 minutes. Don't 
recall the title.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Sarge Gerbode
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 8:52 AM
To: G. C.; Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: A trivia question

I think this one wins the prize, but I am not sure variations on this 
kind should win, as they are a sort of grab bag one could select from 
for any particular performance. I think even a Renaissance audience 
would be put to sleep by an hour-long set of variations.

So what's the longest non-variation piece?

--Sarge

On 8/29/2020 6:56 AM, G. C. wrote:
> Vincenzo Galilei wrote 100 variations over the Romanesca, which would take 
> more
> than one hour to perform
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 2:54 PM G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
> [2]https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Flute%40cs.dartmouth.edu%2Fmsg24116.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C6388636420d0414866ac08d84c33bbcc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63734313235154sdata=PUuIbo8ihKr1DNWi7WlFm6%2F5frEyIAjlY2ZrZ011Y0U%3Dreserved=0
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
> 2. 
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Flute%40cs.dartmouth.edu%2Fmsg24116.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C6388636420d0414866ac08d84c33bbcc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63734313235154sdata=PUuIbo8ihKr1DNWi7WlFm6%2F5frEyIAjlY2ZrZ011Y0U%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C6388636420d0414866ac08d84c33bbcc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63734313235154sdata=XBpiU4Y02c8rJujnAnk9SUw4zSU4P4XzolWerEkoMwo%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: The lute list is retiring soon

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Hi Wayne,

Congratulations on your retirement.  Speaking from experience, it's a great way 
to finally do some things that you have never had time for (like play your lute 
in the morning when your fingers are still fresh instead of rushing off to 
work).

I've been on the list since very near its inception (IIRC, you wrote me an 
email and invited me to join based on my Usenet postings), and it's been a 
tremendous resource. I very much appreciate all the time and effort you have 
put into keeping it running smoothly, not a trivial task.  I hope someone can 
keep it going in some form. Email lists may be old school now, but they work 
(and I avoid FB as a matter of principle).

Guy Smith

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 12:04 PM
To: lute net
Subject: [LUTE] The lute list is retiring soon

Hi -

  I have been running this lute mail list since 1998, and it has been 
interesting and fun.  Now I am retiring from my job at Dartmouth College, and 
when I retire the computers that I have run will be shut down.  This includes 
the  mail servers that run the lute mail list.  So it is time to retire from 
running the lute mail list too.  I will also be closing my lute web page, my 
lute tablature page, and "Lutes For Sale" web page.

  If someone wants to take up running the lute mail list I suggest that they 
announce it on my list in the next month, while my list is still running.  My 
list runs using software that I wrote, and I don’t recommend that someone else 
try to use it.  I don’t know the last day yet, but I will make an announcement 
when my list actually closes.

   Wayne




To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cd2048d18759c41e12b3f08d846ce7890%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637337199877751036sdata=gmUKr0VwDlTprCSiIbNrN4vaH9zw4%2B0WUGZ7LHhLogE%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream has died

[guy_and_liz Smith]

My introduction to the lute was Bream's Lute Music of the Royal Courts of 
Europe, back in the late sixties when I was a high school low brass player 
dabbling with classical guitar on the side. This and his later albums helped 
divert me to the lute repertoire, the music of the Renaissance, and later to 
the lute itself. I always loved his playing on both guitar and lute. He might 
not have been the most technically perfect player, but his musicality more than 
made up for it. I was fortunate to hear him in concert in the early seventies, 
half on lute and half on guitar, and it was one of my favorites. I wonder if 
there are still recordings of those concerts around. RIP.

Guy Smith

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dick Hoban
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 2:06 PM
To: Rainer
Cc: Lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream has died

Julian Bream was an early Renaissance hero of mine. I saw him perform on guitar 
and lute in 1978 and it changed my life. I went right out and ordered my first 
lute. He was an inspiration and will be missed. RIP

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fentertainment-arts-53777949data=02%7C01%7C%7C182c2c3dc4b24002fed208d840961e22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637330360771825660sdata=JMTUt3ePXOVUGNOfYgNJKmyD3qAygqdcFDg3J2LNz7M%3Dreserved=0
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C182c2c3dc4b24002fed208d840961e22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637330360771825660sdata=gH8YfEI4MhX5Tfg3OZm6yBAm7XD1tbTBd3a88xPn8mU%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Back before I retired from the tech industry (2015), I used Vagrant with 
VirtualBox on a Linux computer to run various operating systems as virtual 
machines, mostly for development and testing purposes (Vagrant basically 
simplifies using VMs, including but not limited to VirtualBox). Strictly, you 
need a license to run Windows 10 in a virtual machine, although if you don't 
connect to the internet it will probably work OK. Never actually tried it, 
though. IIRC, you can get free Vagrant boxes to run earlier versions of 
Windows, which might be an option as long as Fronimo doesn't have Windows 10 
specific code.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
lastrai...@interfree.it
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 10:23 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?

   In my experience Fronimo cannot work "directly" on a Linux platform
   using Wine. But an alternative way to make it work is to install in
   your Linux a Virtual Machine that let you run Windows: first thing to
   do is creating a Windows Virtual Machine. Second step is to install and
   run FRONIMO as normal. This is not a 100%"pure" Linux solution but it
   works well, printing procedures etc. included. Hope this can help.
   Gian Luca Lastraioli

    Messaggio originale 
   Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: fronimo under wine?
   Da: Tristan von Neumann
   A: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   CC:

 I agree. I would buy Fronimo if it worked properly under Linux.
 I had trouble in the demo version. Printing to file didn't work
 (blank
 pages though the preview is visible. Is this deliberate?).
 That's sad because I have some fronimo files from the yahoo group I
 would have loved to print.
 Also I would love to contribute to Sarge's archive.
 On 10.08.20 17:54, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:
 > Many people that would like to run fronimo cannot do so because
 they
 > are on a linux platform.Ã,  My website is hosted on a linux
 machine, all
 > on the software I use in maintaining the site is linux-based
 (python,
 > actually) and I would like to convert all my work to linux. It's
 only
 > fronimo that is holding me back.
 >
 > Has anyone succeeded in running fronimo in linux under wine? I
 have
 > ubuntu 20.04 and wine 5.0. I can install fronimo OK, but firing up
 a
 > fronimo file, the first page is blank.
 >
 > Possibly there are configuration options under wine that would
 make
 > fronimo work.
 >
 > Any success, anyone?
 >
 > --Sarge
 >
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cd38f77f2eebd4a9efff108d83d5391a9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637326776419042347sdata=DtbwYp%2FwXy67XUYgWhli0GJ%2BjMkLP39n%2F0Mkbxn3ayk%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Spanish harp in this whole mix

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I think this is what you are referring to: 
https://www.guitarandlute.com/celtic.html . 

Guy
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of G. C.
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:23 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spanish harp in this whole mix

   Didn't Allan Alexander edit some  Turlough O' Carolan for lute?

   On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:12 PM David Brown <[1]arpali...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 I haven't seen the saz and veena in Mersenne! That's great and shows
 how little they have changed. Where is the steel guitar?.
 I assume you mean Irish harp music Good question given proximity
 of Irish harpers to lutes at court.

   --

References

   1. mailto:arpali...@gmail.com


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Yes, that's how I am using it so it's definitely possible. That said It's been 
several months since I last used MuseScore for tablature, so my memory is a bit 
fuzzy. IIRC you use the Staff/Properties dialog to set the number of lines to 
six (near the top). It then treats the seventh and lower courses that you 
defined in Edit String Data like additional lines for data entry, but puts them 
below the 6 line staff with an appropriate number of '/' chars. Also, the 
Advanced Style Properties button allows you to tweak a lot of things, like the 
font. I remember that it took some frustrating trial and error to do all the 
necessary tweaks, but it eventually produced some nice looking 8-course/6-line 
tab. Annoying but you only need to do it once.

Ganbatte!

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:31 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

Wow thanks. That's some progress.

Unfortunately, this creates Thysius style tabs with the 7th line always
present, which is weird to read as I tend to confuse the lower courses.

Is there a possibility to hide the 7th line and only show when it is
used, like "normal" tabs? :)


On 25.03.20 18:46, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:
> Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm talking about MuseScore, not Finale.
>
>   Also, here's the relevant online help URL for the Staff/Part Properties 
> dialog: 
> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmusescore.org%2Fen%2Fhandbook%2Fstaff-part-propertiesdata=02%7C01%7C%7C484d6d0b0fb24fc8dedf08d7d0ec7f9d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207586527156639sdata=yo%2FBZYdMdfkm3D1eGkMudtKUrWr8WUOQDGbJhZDrXro%3Dreserved=0
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: guy_and_liz Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:41 AM
> To: Tristan von Neumann; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale
>
> Right-click the staff and select Staff/Part Properties from the context 
> dialog. There are actually two context dialogs, so you might need to move the 
> cursor and click a few times to get the one with this option. Use the 
> dialog's Edit String Data (near the bottom) to add strings and define their 
> pitches (you can also change the pitches for the first six from their 
> defaults).
>
> Guy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> [mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von 
> Neumann
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:17 AM
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale
>
> If you have a newer version, the lute can be found in the instrument
> list.
>
> When you use the wizard, there should be a menu "plucked instruments"
> filed under "early music".
>
> Click "Lute (Tablature" and you get a 6 line staff.
>
> Edit as usual, but you get letters. As I said, more than 6 courses
> doesn't seem to be possible.
>
> If you find out how to add diapasons, please let me know.
>
> On 25.03.20 08:40, Wim Loos wrote:
>
> Daar Tristan,
> I'm using Musescore for 'normal' notes and bars. �
> I wonder of jou know where I can find a manual to use the program to
> create a french tablature.
> Thanks in advance,
> best regards,
> Wim Loos
>
> Op wo 25 mrt. 2020 06:54 schreef Tristan von Neumann
> <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:
>
>   For French tabs with good optics you can also use MuseScore, which
>   is
>   also free.
>   However I have not yet (on Linux) found any support of more than 6
>   courses.
>   Editing is quite easy.
>   On 25.03.20 06:21, Sean Smith wrote:
>   > � � �I've used Parallels to open Fronimo on Mac and it works
>   pretty well. My
>   > � � �only complaint is that Mac updates sometimes would create
>   problems as
>   > � � �would OS upgrades. Eventually it would work but rarely the
>   same problem
>   > � � �twice. That was 8 or 9 years ago so that may be water under
>   the bridge.
>   > � � �Eventually I just got a dedicated Windows machine and all is
>   well. They
>   > � � �are getting pretty inexpensive and Fronimo doesn't use much
>   in the way
>   > � � �of computer power.
>   > � � �One small requirement is an 'insert' key (to enter a space).
>   If you
>   > � � �don't have one on your mac (or windows keyboard) you'll want
>   to map one
>   > � � �onto it. I'd be lost without it.
&g

[LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm talking about MuseScore, not Finale. 

 Also, here's the relevant online help URL for the Staff/Part Properties 
dialog: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/staff-part-properties



-Original Message-
From: guy_and_liz Smith 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:41 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

Right-click the staff and select Staff/Part Properties from the context dialog. 
There are actually two context dialogs, so you might need to move the cursor 
and click a few times to get the one with this option. Use the dialog's Edit 
String Data (near the bottom) to add strings and define their pitches (you can 
also change the pitches for the first six from their defaults). 

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:17 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

   If you have a newer version, the lute can be found in the instrument
   list.

   When you use the wizard, there should be a menu "plucked instruments"
   filed under "early music".

   Click "Lute (Tablature" and you get a 6 line staff.

   Edit as usual, but you get letters. As I said, more than 6 courses
   doesn't seem to be possible.

   If you find out how to add diapasons, please let me know.

   On 25.03.20 08:40, Wim Loos wrote:

   Daar Tristan,
   I'm using Musescore for 'normal' notes and bars. �
   I wonder of jou know where I can find a manual to use the program to
   create a french tablature.
   Thanks in advance,
   best regards,
   Wim Loos

   Op wo 25 mrt. 2020 06:54 schreef Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 For French tabs with good optics you can also use MuseScore, which
 is
 also free.
 However I have not yet (on Linux) found any support of more than 6
 courses.
 Editing is quite easy.
 On 25.03.20 06:21, Sean Smith wrote:
 > � � �I've used Parallels to open Fronimo on Mac and it works
 pretty well. My
 > � � �only complaint is that Mac updates sometimes would create
 problems as
 > � � �would OS upgrades. Eventually it would work but rarely the
 same problem
 > � � �twice. That was 8 or 9 years ago so that may be water under
 the bridge.
 > � � �Eventually I just got a dedicated Windows machine and all is
 well. They
 > � � �are getting pretty inexpensive and Fronimo doesn't use much
 in the way
 > � � �of computer power.
 > � � �One small requirement is an 'insert' key (to enter a space).
 If you
 > � � �don't have one on your mac (or windows keyboard) you'll want
 to map one
 > � � �onto it. I'd be lost without it.
 > � � �Sean
 >
 > � � �On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:33 PM Mac User
 <[1][2]cwiggin...@nc.rr.com>
 > � � �wrote:
 >
 > � � � �Hi all! I've been using Finale as my primary music notation
 software
 > � � � �for many years. Recently, I've begun arranging Renaissance
 and early
 > � � � �Baroque music for a mixed lute trio (Tenor in G, Alto in A,
 Soprano
 > � � � �in D), and while Finale does a fabulous job notating,
 transposing,
 > � � � �printing, etc., the one complaint I've had (and have made
 it myself)
 > � � � �is the look and function of the font used for the letters
 when
 > � � � �notating in the French style. I've tried many fonts
 available on my
 > � � � �computer; none seem adequate. Specifically, the letters
 cover each
 > � � � �other when two or more notes appear at the same time. A
 friend
 > � � � �recommended using Fronimo, but I don't believe that one
 works on a
 > � � � �Mac, which I use exclusively. Does anyone here have a
 > � � � �recommendation?
 > � � � �Craig Wiggins
 > � � � �Durham, NC
 > � � � �To get on or off this list see list information at
 > � � �
 
�[2][3]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C05c3a472c86545592ee008d7d0d9c6ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207506064961061sdata=7P6EZSl81f9nuAHDg%2BOBlbBeFH83XEVWkQmXesWHaIk%3Dreserved=0
 >
 > � � �--
 >
 > References
 >
 > � � �1. mailto:[4]cwiggin...@nc.rr.com
 > � � �2. 
[5]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C05c3a472c86545592ee008d7d0d9c6ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207506064961061sdata=7P6EZSl81f9nuAHDg%2BOBlbBeFH83XEVWkQmXesWHaIk%3Dreserved=0
 >

   --

References

   

[LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Right-click the staff and select Staff/Part Properties from the context dialog. 
There are actually two context dialogs, so you might need to move the cursor 
and click a few times to get the one with this option. Use the dialog's Edit 
String Data (near the bottom) to add strings and define their pitches (you can 
also change the pitches for the first six from their defaults). 

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:17 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

   If you have a newer version, the lute can be found in the instrument
   list.

   When you use the wizard, there should be a menu "plucked instruments"
   filed under "early music".

   Click "Lute (Tablature" and you get a 6 line staff.

   Edit as usual, but you get letters. As I said, more than 6 courses
   doesn't seem to be possible.

   If you find out how to add diapasons, please let me know.

   On 25.03.20 08:40, Wim Loos wrote:

   Daar Tristan,
   I'm using Musescore for 'normal' notes and bars. �
   I wonder of jou know where I can find a manual to use the program to
   create a french tablature.
   Thanks in advance,
   best regards,
   Wim Loos

   Op wo 25 mrt. 2020 06:54 schreef Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 For French tabs with good optics you can also use MuseScore, which
 is
 also free.
 However I have not yet (on Linux) found any support of more than 6
 courses.
 Editing is quite easy.
 On 25.03.20 06:21, Sean Smith wrote:
 > � � �I've used Parallels to open Fronimo on Mac and it works
 pretty well. My
 > � � �only complaint is that Mac updates sometimes would create
 problems as
 > � � �would OS upgrades. Eventually it would work but rarely the
 same problem
 > � � �twice. That was 8 or 9 years ago so that may be water under
 the bridge.
 > � � �Eventually I just got a dedicated Windows machine and all is
 well. They
 > � � �are getting pretty inexpensive and Fronimo doesn't use much
 in the way
 > � � �of computer power.
 > � � �One small requirement is an 'insert' key (to enter a space).
 If you
 > � � �don't have one on your mac (or windows keyboard) you'll want
 to map one
 > � � �onto it. I'd be lost without it.
 > � � �Sean
 >
 > � � �On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:33 PM Mac User
 <[1][2]cwiggin...@nc.rr.com>
 > � � �wrote:
 >
 > � � � �Hi all! I've been using Finale as my primary music notation
 software
 > � � � �for many years. Recently, I've begun arranging Renaissance
 and early
 > � � � �Baroque music for a mixed lute trio (Tenor in G, Alto in A,
 Soprano
 > � � � �in D), and while Finale does a fabulous job notating,
 transposing,
 > � � � �printing, etc., the one complaint I've had (and have made
 it myself)
 > � � � �is the look and function of the font used for the letters
 when
 > � � � �notating in the French style. I've tried many fonts
 available on my
 > � � � �computer; none seem adequate. Specifically, the letters
 cover each
 > � � � �other when two or more notes appear at the same time. A
 friend
 > � � � �recommended using Fronimo, but I don't believe that one
 works on a
 > � � � �Mac, which I use exclusively. Does anyone here have a
 > � � � �recommendation?
 > � � � �Craig Wiggins
 > � � � �Durham, NC
 > � � � �To get on or off this list see list information at
 > � � �
 
�[2][3]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C05c3a472c86545592ee008d7d0d9c6ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207506064961061sdata=7P6EZSl81f9nuAHDg%2BOBlbBeFH83XEVWkQmXesWHaIk%3Dreserved=0
 >
 > � � �--
 >
 > References
 >
 > � � �1. mailto:[4]cwiggin...@nc.rr.com
 > � � �2. 
[5]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C05c3a472c86545592ee008d7d0d9c6ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207506064961061sdata=7P6EZSl81f9nuAHDg%2BOBlbBeFH83XEVWkQmXesWHaIk%3Dreserved=0
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:cwiggin...@nc.rr.com
   3. 
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C05c3a472c86545592ee008d7d0d9c6ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637207506064961061sdata=7P6EZSl81f9nuAHDg%2BOBlbBeFH83XEVWkQmXesWHaIk%3Dreserved=0
   4. mailto:cwiggin...@nc.rr.com
   5. 

[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If you need a break from practicing, it's a good time to read/reread The 
Decameron.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Jurgen Frenz
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:04 AM
To: Sean Smith
Cc: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

if it is for easy pieces to play or re-work basic technique I found Lynda Says 
quarterly advice quite useful and the higher numbers are not so easy either:

https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lutesociety.org%2Fpages%2Fbeginnersdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548686344sdata=fl8xt0eY5OiTB7vY2Dqy6gDKRO%2B7%2BZpdKLDe9LU5i1A%3Dreserved=0

Further there's a list of tentative "grades" of difficulty of lute pieces, not 
everybody feels the same as we all have different difficulties but nice to go 
through

https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lutesociety.org%2Fpages%2Ftowards-lute-gradesdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548686344sdata=KrcIlPz9MfblqYNnpKQ8qX43zy%2BljXQuVXYpjZS23sA%3Dreserved=0

Best wishes
Jürgen




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:23 AM, Sean Smith  wrote:

> Both faves and we're lucky to have them.
> I know you like finding hidden things, Tristan. Go to the really long
> [Dump] on f280 in the Marsh. There's a measure missing between 114 and
> 115. Put in something you like or steal/adapt a measure from elsewhere.
> Now here's the fun part, record it carefully, then play it against the
> recording with a lag of 4 measures. It's not perfect but it works kind
> of nicely. It will certainly keep you occupied for an afternoon or two.
> ...and it's excellent metronome practice regardless.
> Whether it was meant that way is hard to say and, depending on whom you
> talk to, even suggesting it is probably irresponsible with a touch of
> 'shame on you!'. There's certainly no indication. It also starts a
> little abruptly so you might add a few C and G iterations on the front
> end.
> Sean
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM Tristan von Neumann
> <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Many of you might have more time on their hands than usual.
> So here's a list of favorite books and manuscripts to play.
> * Marsh Lute Book. Fun for weeks.
> [2]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgerbode.net%2Fsources%2FIRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library%2Fms.zdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548686344sdata=9nSn%2FHcvFLgs7GrCixF5qsmXRCshK4nq9WOlWpKBJac%3Dreserved=0.
> 3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
> * Siena Ms. - it never fails to surprise
> [3]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgerbode.net%2Fsources%2FNL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage%2FMS_28data=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548686344sdata=wnFOvzEzuV5x8uXPLpvDQELYiKLVCzOXgYvkaoHf4GQ%3Dreserved=0.
> B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
> * If you want to concentrate on one piece: this one will keep you
> busy
> for a long time.
> [4]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgerbode.net%2Fsources%2FRippe%2Fbook_1_1552%2Fpdf%2F01_fantasia_01.pdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548686344sdata=cO4KeXXA4y9E3051wyzA6rjojVVtTAu8uZfM%2F7iZeY8%3Dreserved=0
> df
> * he learned from the best: This book by Paladin is extremely
> charming
> and not too difficult
> [5]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgerbode.net%2Fsources%2FPaladin%2FPaladin_1560%2Fpdf%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548696349sdata=dACFS101HLGOT7RQ9VbqhPlMa4yXLXGpRk%2FWazp1MJQ%3Dreserved=0
> * in times like these...
> [6]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgerbode.net%2Fsources%2FValderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547%2Fv2%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548696349sdata=4uPO0C%2BmW3mO%2FN9rGHcnZoX%2Bl%2BfpdN%2BjJ4mrZN%2FRl5E%3Dreserved=0
> pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
> [7]gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
> Let's hope the best for us all.
> Enjoy life.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [8]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C53d6249dca1841de542908d7ce489b52%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637204683548696349sdata=avFCs9%2FE%2BMu6%2Bf3kR6dSx81J%2BbbJJ%2F6UetFsP2w1fr8%3Dreserved=0
>
> 

[LUTE] Re: Everyone OK?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I'm doing fine so far but it's going to be tough on Seattle area musicians, 
early or otherwise, regardless of whether they contract the virus. Seattle 
Early Music just cancelled an International Series concert, which is going to 
be a significant hit to their budget. The governor has prohibited events of 
>250 people in the major urban counties in the state, which could very well be 
tightened further. Even if smaller concerts go ahead, their gate is going to 
take a significant hit. People with resources might want to consider some 
additional donations to help keep groups afloat.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
cyndi...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:18 PM
To: tristanvonneum...@gmx.de; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Everyone OK?

   Such kind concern! This is a wonderful group! So far so good for me.
   Cyndi
   -Original Message-
   From: Tristan von Neumann 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Sent: Wed, Mar 11, 2020 3:16 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Everyone OK?
   I was wondering too...
   I'm ok, I just don't have anything controversial to spark a discussion
   :)
   On 11.03.20 20:10, Leonard Williams wrote:
   >Things have been rather quiet on the list...I hope everyone is OK
   >during this stressful period!
   >Best regards,
   >Leonard Williams
   >
   >--
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > 
[1]https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cd93dc45852e74a58ad1108d7c5f11287%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637195511492519277sdata=v69QYbvHDGQ%2Bv2HraYUiSEzigZikV5wJvUbFCjt7VQ8%3Dreserved=0

   --

References

   1. 
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cd93dc45852e74a58ad1108d7c5f11287%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637195511492519277sdata=v69QYbvHDGQ%2Bv2HraYUiSEzigZikV5wJvUbFCjt7VQ8%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: pickup or mic inside lute

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If you can figure out how to get in touch with Tom Bergen in Seattle (last I 
heard...), he had a great sounding Lundberg 11 course French baroque instrument 
with an internal pickup mounted near or under the bridge. He had a miniplug 
built into the strap button that he connected to a wireless transmitter that he 
concealed under his coat (Pigtail?). Worked great. He played it at LSA one year 
and it was good enough to fool some well-known professionals. IIRC, it wasn't 
an add-on to an existing instrument; he had Lundberg build it specifically to 
accommodate the pickup, and I think it took at least a couple of tries to get 
it right. I don't recall any details, but I'm sure Tom could tell you if you 
can get ahold of him.

I also have a Schertler (which I confess that I haven't actually used much). 
One thing I discovered is that it is quite sensitive to exactly where you stick 
it on the top. If you are getting a poor sound, try moving it around. For the 
instrument I tried it with,  just above the base side of the bridge seemed to 
be the best spot, but YMMV. 

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 2:52 AM
Cc: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: pickup or mic inside lute

   I have a separate Schertler stick-on mic that I can use on all
   lutes/guitars I play. I can plug it into an amp I bring myself, or
   alternatively have a preamp (also Schertler) to give the PA-man a
   Direct Out while I'm still in control of my own EQ. The preamp also has
   a mute button, comes in handy when not playing or when tuning.
   A normal mic sounds better, but this works and had no feed back
   issues.
   A mic inside an instrument (I have a classical guitar with a build-in
   condenser  mic) sounds rather boomy and can have feed-back issues.
   ymmv
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   
[2]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdavidvanooijen.wordpress.comdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333099198sdata=YIN3NmhKr39X4IhZHC1rMvRWNJVvbzbD5nHZMgYZrLM%3Dreserved=0
   ***

   On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 07:40, Ed Durbrow <[3]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp>
   wrote:

I'm thinking of having my archlute repaired which will entail
 removal
of the top. I'm also thinking if I do that, I'd like to have a
 pickup
or mic installed. I'm looking for recommendations for a natural
sounding pickup or mic inside the lute that is no hassle use. I
 need
something that can be plugged into a wireless transmitter. The
 wireless
system I have is a high end Sennheiser (ew 100 G2 ) that uses a
condenser mic. I don't understand this stuff very well. I don't
 know if
a pickup can look the same as a condenser mic to the transmitter.
The ew-100 G2 manual says.
AF characteristics
Max. input voltage (at peak deviation) Microphone 1.8 Vrms,
 unbalanced
1.2 Veff, unbalanced
Line 2.4 Vrms
Input impedance Microphone 10 kΩ, unbalanced10 kΩ, unbalanced
Line 1 MΩ
Thanks in advance.
Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan

[1][4]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fedurbrow%3Ffeature%3Dwatchdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333109190sdata=lfcAz%2Bv5LTmS7htXonl7a9mlUstBZ11pLWh6GPfUM8s%3Dreserved=0

[2][5]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fed-durbrowdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333109190sdata=o1COkdfvBD4KlBy7ceyIUZX5a4hCq4pkb%2FiXgOcZMPU%3Dreserved=0

[3][6]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9.plala.or.jp%2Fedurbrow%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333109190sdata=Sz0ERCaBPqczTreRlyXrf4Wo6JbzCC73JUHdWo%2FkNRo%3Dreserved=0
--
 References
1. 
[7]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fedurbrow%3Ffeature%3Dwatchdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333109190sdata=lfcAz%2Bv5LTmS7htXonl7a9mlUstBZ11pLWh6GPfUM8s%3Dreserved=0
2. 
[8]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fed-durbrowdata=02%7C01%7C%7C2ba98fe764fc47df4cfb08d7abbc0536%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637166696333109190sdata=o1COkdfvBD4KlBy7ceyIUZX5a4hCq4pkb%2FiXgOcZMPU%3Dreserved=0
3. 

[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs

[guy_and_liz Smith]

One of the Minnesota Ren Faire's that I went to when I lived there in the early 
eighties included a booth for Dan Larson, who must have been just starting his 
business. I nearly ordered one of his six course instruments to replace my old 
German heavy lute (Steiner), and I wish I had. Apart from that, I haven't seen 
much in the way of authentic music at any of the Ren Faires that I've attended. 
It's mostly filk singing (spelling is correct...), random folk music, and 
Celtic music, especially the headliners.

That said, I've always enjoyed them, but more in the sense of "recreating the 
Middle Ages as they should have been".

Guy


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Shoskes
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 3:31 PM
To: Chris Wilke
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs

A few years ago I went to the Great Lakes Medieval Fair with my kids with zero 
expectation of seeing anything remotely historically lutenistic. Sure enough, 
in the distance I saw someone playing a lute. As I got closer I saw that it had 
real tied gut frets. Closer still and the performer was clearly playing thumb 
under and I could hear real Dowland.

Turns out it was Oberlin lutenist Michael Manderen. He plays lute and gamba at 
Great Lakes and also the Michigan Renaissance Fair. Careful with those bets 
Chris!

Danny

> On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Christopher Wilke 
>  wrote:
> 
>   One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money.
>   I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going
>   just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My
>   friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he
>   thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because
>   you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to
>   see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner
>   that night.
> 
>   Chris
>   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
>   On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene
>wrote:
> 
>   "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at
>   Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing
>   appropriate songs and dances."
> 
>   This may be a bit too generous.  Some make/made real efforts (for
>   example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU]
>   held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and
>   17th music).  However, most feature performers in renaissance garb,
>   badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in
>   imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars.  Even
>   OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a
>   total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019.
> 
>   In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in
>   English lute music.  I wanted to split a set with her playing
>   Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me
>   playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure
>   discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada"
>   conflict.  It never came together, and I have thus never played such a
>   "faire."  Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the
>   incentive any longer.
> 
>   Eugene
> 
>   -Original Message-
> 
>   From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
>   <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von
>   Neumann
> 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM
> 
>   To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 
>   Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
> 
>   So here's something different for a change.
> 
>   Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly
>   the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some
>   fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte"
>   (Medieval Fairs).
> 
>   What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are
>   quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is
>   the music.
> 
>   Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages,
>   many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with
>   Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping.
> 
>   I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter
>   von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von
>   Wolkenstein.
> 
>   Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even
>   simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987.
> 
>   If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in
>   pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate
>   instruments.
> 
>   While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be
>   totally 

[LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Actually, most of those pieces were secular although I'm not sure if they were 
all technically madrigals (in particular, there were a few tenorlieder and 
Parisian chansons among them). And yes, they did have accidentals and some 
interesting harmony here and there, but that is only obliquely related to keys 
or temperaments. If you want some really wild harmony, try Gesualdo. He could 
be mistaken for a 20th century composer.

FWIW, temperaments on an infinitely variable instrument like a sackbut pose a 
different set of issues than for lutes or keyboards. As a practical matter, we 
didn't use meantone, we  used something more like just temperament. And we 
played one Project Zefiro concert using the exact instrumentation specified in 
the original manuscript (the Lerma MS, from Spain). Explicit instrumentation is 
a bit unusual, though. Usually you just get Cantus/Altus/...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 1:59 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

It seems you don't play madrigals very often, where you will encounter
all kinds of accidentals and weird chords.

Here's one famous example going through the circle of fifths:
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnBmMlkuDRfIdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cf5f518c003b143027ed308d7120cc47c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636997718352749420sdata=fjCuF7GYXqaQHkpFnMzk9GgxW7I2NrEn%2FR636Yj03MY%3Dreserved=0

There is ample evidence, that this music was played also with fewer
singers and viols, keyboards and/or lutes.

Temperament really is an issue here.


On 26.07.19 21:22, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:
> As a wind player, I've played from or at least looked at several hundred 
> facsimiles of 16th and early 17th century polyphony (mostly English, German, 
> Italian, and Flemish) and they were all notated as either  zero or one flat 
> (B flat). Notes were sometimes modified by a sharp or flat accidental, but 
> not consistently enough that I'd call it a key, as we think of it. I've heard 
> of pieces from that period with sharps or more than one flat notated on the 
> staff, but I've never run across one. They can't be very common.
>
> Guy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> [mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 11:45 AM
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu list
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)
>
> Martyn, I understand people's reluctance to spend precious playing time 
> writing out all their fret calculations for you. There are umpteen 
> calculators on the net for fret placement (all you need to do is type in the 
> string length) and all the formulas you might need on David van Ooijen's 
> website (for example).
>
> Asking for a specific player's precise numbers seems pointless to me as the 
> result in terms of temperament will depend on the action of the lute, the 
> type of strings used, the thickness of frets (to a degree) and the lutenist's 
> ability to make subtle changes in intonation with the left hand. A fret chart 
> will help to get the basic placement but then one will need to adjust by ear 
> to get the essential pure major thirds the piece requires (if one is using 
> 1/4 comma meantone) along with the colour of chords one wants and and the 
> precise tuning of key notes. Tastini may be added and if one is playing a set 
> of pieces, one will probably need to occasionally move a fret or two between 
> works (one designs the programme to limit these changes).
>
> It might be useful to remember also that the idea of tonality is 
> anachronistic when applied to the Renaissance period (when thinking was still 
> very much modal) and even if we do impose our modern idea of keys on early 
> pieces, composers rarely venture further than keys with no more than three 
> sharps or flats.
>
> Best,
> Matthew
>
>
> Le 26 juil. 2019 à 18:49, Martyn Hodgson 
>  a écrit :
>
>>Dear Howard,
>>Well - until we have a more quantifiable idea of the objective results
>>of what people actually hear 'by their ears' we're in a land of
>>make-believe where vague unquantifiable assertion carries more
>>weight than any scientific considerations.
>>It's surely not much to ask of those, who have somehow set their frets
>>according to what they perceive as being some particular preferred
>>'meantone', to share the fruits of their work by publishing their
>>measurable fret positions.
>>As it is it is hard to see what is meant by setting a lute entirely in
>>'meantone' since, wi

[LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

As a wind player, I've played from or at least looked at several hundred 
facsimiles of 16th and early 17th century polyphony (mostly English, German, 
Italian, and Flemish) and they were all notated as either  zero or one flat (B 
flat). Notes were sometimes modified by a sharp or flat accidental, but not 
consistently enough that I'd call it a key, as we think of it. I've heard of 
pieces from that period with sharps or more than one flat notated on the staff, 
but I've never run across one. They can't be very common.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 11:45 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

Martyn, I understand people's reluctance to spend precious playing time writing 
out all their fret calculations for you. There are umpteen calculators on the 
net for fret placement (all you need to do is type in the string length) and 
all the formulas you might need on David van Ooijen's website (for example).

Asking for a specific player's precise numbers seems pointless to me as the 
result in terms of temperament will depend on the action of the lute, the type 
of strings used, the thickness of frets (to a degree) and the lutenist's 
ability to make subtle changes in intonation with the left hand. A fret chart 
will help to get the basic placement but then one will need to adjust by ear to 
get the essential pure major thirds the piece requires (if one is using 1/4 
comma meantone) along with the colour of chords one wants and and the precise 
tuning of key notes. Tastini may be added and if one is playing a set of 
pieces, one will probably need to occasionally move a fret or two between works 
(one designs the programme to limit these changes).

It might be useful to remember also that the idea of tonality is anachronistic 
when applied to the Renaissance period (when thinking was still very much 
modal) and even if we do impose our modern idea of keys on early pieces, 
composers rarely venture further than keys with no more than three sharps or 
flats.

Best,
Matthew


Le 26 juil. 2019 à 18:49, Martyn Hodgson  
a écrit :

>   Dear Howard,
>   Well - until we have a more quantifiable idea of the objective results
>   of what people actually hear 'by their ears' we're in a land of
>   make-believe where vague unquantifiable assertion carries more
>   weight than any scientific considerations.
>   It's surely not much to ask of those, who have somehow set their frets
>   according to what they perceive as being some particular preferred
>   'meantone', to share the fruits of their work by publishing their
>   measurable fret positions.
>   As it is it is hard to see what is meant by setting a lute entirely in
>   'meantone' since, without multiple movable frets (as, for example,
>   Thompson's experimental guitar) this is simply not physically possible
>   since, as also said before, it fails to properly address the core
>   issue
>   of minor and major semitones on different courses but on the same
>   fret.
>   As also already remarked: who knows, it might even lead to some
>   helpful consensus.
>   MH
> 
>   On Friday, 26 July 2019, 17:11:50 BST, howard posner
>wrote:
>   You might want to reread the part about using your ears.  "Precise fret
>   positions" is an irrelevant concept if you tune by actually listening;
>   that's why your repeated demands for numbers are going unanswered.
>> On Jul 26, 2019, at 6:40 AM, Martyn Hodgson
>   <[1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you Stephan,
>> Would you kindly share what precise fret positions result when you
>   set
>> the
>>   'fifth fret so high that you can still enjoy and work your way
>> through.'
>> MH
>> 
>> On Friday, 26 July 2019, 13:17:31 BST, Stephan Olbertz
>> <[2]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:
>> You wouldn't even need a tuner. Just set a fifth fret so high that
>   you
>> can
>> still enjoy and work your way through all the other frets and open
>> courses
>> by means of comparing octaves and unisons.
>> Use strings that are neither too old nor too new. And be sure to
>   tune
>> to a
>> fourth based tuning.
>> Regards
>> Stephan
>> 
>> Im Auftrag
>> von Roland Hayes
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Juli 2019 13:36
>> An: Martyn Hodgson; [3][3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Steve Ramey
>> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)
>>   Or you could get a meantone tuner and use your ears and not a
>> measuring
>>   tape
>>   Get [1]Outlook for Android
>> 
>   __
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   
> 

[LUTE] Re: Dowland's first book of songes

[guy_and_liz Smith]

At a seminar I attended some years ago, Pat O'Brien made a plausible case that 
Can She Excuse (which is based on the Earl of Essex galliard) is a veiled 
reference to the relationship between Elizabeth and Robert, Earl of Essex. They 
were widely believed to be lovers early on, but it didn't last and there's 
apparently a letter from him to Elizabeth sent during his tenure as Lord 
Lieutenant of Ireland (which was less than successful), complaining of ill 
treatment by her. Robert ultimately was accused of treason and executed.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2019 12:03 PM
To: Tristan von Neumann; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dowland's first book of songes

I get your point Tristan. Ann Boleyn might have disagreed with you 
though regarding the status of women in 16th century England. But I 
guess you can add that to your list of evidence that Queen Liz was 
really a guy :) And I found no evidence that Dowland's pining love songs 
were even indirectly connected to the aging queen. Which is interesting 
in itself, though not totally surprising.



On 5/25/19 11:36 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
>
> On 25.05.19 20:00, Alain Veylit wrote:
>>  Dude, you lived in a completely patriarchal society and you still
>> manage to blame her for torturing you! )
>>
>
> I knew it!!! Queen Elizabeth was a man!!!
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd059cfc782d4a4e65e508d6e143c597%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636944078538562741sdata=JioV0BfXt%2BNsGlgZ61EWqfKK9aat4p71eiVb22Veii8%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Funky Chords in Lute Literature

[guy_and_liz Smith]

No lute versions that I’m aware of, I’m afraid. I know them from the vocal 
versions. I’d love to see some intabulations as well, but I suspect that they 
would be quite difficult.

Guy

Sent from my iPad

> On May 11, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> OMG you have lute pieces by Gesualdo? Please, where can I find the tabs!
> 
> Sorry, could not resist. :) Yes I know, his madrigals are very daring,
> also those of Scipione Lacorcia, and Michelangelo Rossi.
> 
> But this is vocal music of which we don't have any intabulations, or do
> you know any?
> 
> I meant specific lute literature, like Passamezzi or Ricercars, or at
> least contemporary intabulations like those of Phalèse.
> 
> Which passages astonish you whenever you play them?
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11.05.19 23:12, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:
>> Just about anything by Gesualdo. His harmony sometimes sounds almost 20th 
>> century. 
>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimslp.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AGesualdo%252C_Carlodata=02%7C01%7C%7Cf104061058be46129e1508d6d656c4f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636932065501121459sdata=TMSJudsCCQkfd%2FfmxQHKFztJhp9u9mWLFFi5QwJJpiw%3Dreserved=0.
>>  If you want to go straight to the source, there are a number of facsimiles 
>> under the Collections tab.
>> 
>> Guy
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf 
>> Of Tristan von Neumann
>> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2019 2:03 PM
>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Subject: [LUTE] Funky Chords in Lute Literature
>> 
>> I just stumbled across this little gem of a Passamezzo found in Vol. 5
>> of the Wurstisen Lute Book and instantly had to record it.
>> 
>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com%2Ftrack%2F46-passamezzo-f-d-d-wurstisen-lute-book-vol-5data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf104061058be46129e1508d6d656c4f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636932065501121459sdata=ZIGUVVslEAlelkVQgmn4Cjrqg55uoN3bwcWnb4oH48E%3Dreserved=0
>> 
>> 
>> The interesting thing about it is the use of power chords. I am sure
>> this would sound great on an Electric Guitar. If someone wants to try.
>> 
>> This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask:
>> 
>> Do you know of any other pieces that make use of "modern" slide
>> techniques that sound funky?
>> 
>> Also, funky chords are appreciated.
>> 
>> I always found many French chansons very funky especially in the cadences.
>> 
>> Any other interesting pieces?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cf104061058be46129e1508d6d656c4f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636932065501131464sdata=ANpCXrZRYLrBOu8VcFIWQUz2ndvwwcL1%2B91EWmVl48o%3Dreserved=0
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Funky Chords in Lute Literature

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Just about anything by Gesualdo. His harmony sometimes sounds almost 20th 
century. https://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Gesualdo%2C_Carlo. If you want to go 
straight to the source, there are a number of facsimiles under the Collections 
tab.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2019 2:03 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Funky Chords in Lute Literature

I just stumbled across this little gem of a Passamezzo found in Vol. 5
of the Wurstisen Lute Book and instantly had to record it.

https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com%2Ftrack%2F46-passamezzo-f-d-d-wurstisen-lute-book-vol-5data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf7f4760f6c0e40e7ae4908d6d6547e87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636932055714307336sdata=8qf3QHd3B2VPqU%2BPysAxASnBGwXSQT%2BkFnZqU7QJIV8%3Dreserved=0


The interesting thing about it is the use of power chords. I am sure
this would sound great on an Electric Guitar. If someone wants to try.

This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask:

Do you know of any other pieces that make use of "modern" slide
techniques that sound funky?

Also, funky chords are appreciated.

I always found many French chansons very funky especially in the cadences.

Any other interesting pieces?






To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cf7f4760f6c0e40e7ae4908d6d6547e87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636932055714307336sdata=1QKus%2F000n%2BFcazAG0QaJK4hvFpIm58nrilyz%2Fd15vI%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: US source for lute bag/backpack

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Some years ago at the Seattle Folklife festival, I talked to someone from 
Colorado Case about a soft case for a lute. They make very nice soft cases for 
a lot of instruments, but they don't stock them for lutes. However, the rep 
said that they could probably handle it as a custom order. Never followed up so 
I'm not sure about details, but it is worth a try: http://www.coloradocase.com/

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
George Arndt
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 10:20 AM
To: LuteNet list; George Arndt
Subject: [LUTE] US source for lute bag/backpack

   Dear Collected Wisdom:

   Can anyone recommend a source from which to purchase a renaissance lute
   bag / backpack within the USA? I am seeking a padded bag without
   external printing.

   Thanks in advance,

   George

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Cf1998e9c745b4d735c8a08d6b07d239b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636890448851978985sdata=JTG0JjOqSmaP10tJPtXwgce8aQSUPW%2Bkz5NewQfGOHE%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Dowland

[guy_and_liz Smith]

https://www.amazon.com/DOVER-DOWLAND-J-Classical-sheets/dp/B0058UE0VM/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=dowland+lute+songs+sheet+music=1551570009=gateway=8-1-fkmrnull
  

This edition has volume 1 and 2 and includes (French) tablature for the lute 
part, but the tab typeface is so small that it is difficult to play from. 

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Leonard Williams
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 1:36 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Dowland

   Is there a modern edition (in tablature)  available of Dowland's
   various books of songs and airs?

   Thanks,
   Leonard Williams

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C7d8dbfc03f714a82237a08d69f5738f7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636871594294278235sdata=wOcmButhy4cNe5AWmywr2Z1CzA%2FbAbFLVzci78GFnTg%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: music stands

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If you have a Manhasset (which is what I use at home), you can use standouts to 
make the desk much larger.

https://www.amazon.com/MANHASSET-Music-Stand-Out-Shelf-Extenders/dp/B00H5XQH20/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments=UTF8=1539803248=1-1=standouts

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Dan Winheld
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:24 AM
To: Martin Shepherd; Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: music stands

My current stand (nominally portable/collapsible) but is my stay at home 
study/practice center:

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FSuperstand-Extra-Wide-Fold-Out-Music-Stand-soloist-conductor-%2F253916282119%3Fhash%3Ditem3b1e96fd07data=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=ZPehm3pEbHAhOr%2Bc5zYqKxe1E7pU5NFy%2BPgqwx7Ffhg%3Dreserved=0

I really love this one, but there are other wider desk stands on this 
particular ebay page:

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPeak-Music-SMS-35-Conductor-Music-Stand-WIDE-with-Solid-Desk-and-Tote-Bag-New-%2F332306917965%3Fhash%3Ditem4d5f092a4ddata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=H9xGq7vGTZ0ZmPrA3799ekjRtCl%2Fd7l5h4bZ1WBWKLU%3Dreserved=0

-I may also go for this last one as a back-up (& more portable), 26.75" 
wide is good for 3 pages, and less massive than my other one if I ever 
get another gig in m life;

Dan

On 10/17/2018 10:45 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: music stands
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:39:20 +0200
>From: Martin Shepherd [1]
>  To: Jean-Marie Poirier [2]
> Thanks to all who replied!  OK I'll try K & M.
>
> M
>
> On 17/10/2018 19:14, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
>> K & M - German made -are the best !
>>
>> Jean-Marie
>>
>> --
>>
>>> Can anyone recommend a good traditional metal music stand?  I don't mean
>>> the very heavy orchestral stand, just a "normal" fold-out one.  I ask
>>> because it seems that they're all made in China and are flimsy and
>>> unstable.  I have one (I think it's Stagg) where the top attaches to the
>>> rest with just one rivet, so it just wobbles.
>>>
>>> I need the little fold-out arms so I can see three-page pieces, too.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice,
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> [3]https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirusdata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=z3AGhVyuxTj0hN3L9nlSGzoX0o9KpqbvUKW0h7Cjuq0%3Dreserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [4]https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=i2CW9AWAYvfsRdD4wzdBxRxDOixV7LbMyikCK3xzB8Q%3Dreserved=0
>
> Virus-free. 
> [5]https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avast.comdata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=Pm08CZGRaQa2FtjaB%2FLdIcmfreEmJnSMYIu72L9Czt0%3Dreserved=0
>
> --
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 2. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
> 3. 
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirusdata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=z3AGhVyuxTj0hN3L9nlSGzoX0o9KpqbvUKW0h7Cjuq0%3Dreserved=0
> 4. 
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=i2CW9AWAYvfsRdD4wzdBxRxDOixV7LbMyikCK3xzB8Q%3Dreserved=0
> 5. 
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclientdata=02%7C01%7C%7C915db949b4114794bfbe08d6345dd209%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753974885734064sdata=skZUAeBsy7ZiMjRf5BFC4JwNfXIGizM1TGZgzr%2FPRI8%3Dreserved=0
>
> Hidden links:
> 7. 
> 

[LUTE] Re: music stands

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've been using a K regularly for years for both early and modern music (jazz 
and band). It's light and compact and works very well but does have some 
limitations. In particular, it's a bit tippy in windy conditions (I play 
outdoor band concerts at times) or when you put anything very heavy on it (like 
a large gig book). It also on the narrow side for pieces that run more than two 
pages.  I'm thinking of the Manhasset portable stand for those occasions where 
the K isn't going to work so well. It's heavier and more cumbersome to tote 
around, but also more stable with a wider desk.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Braig, Eugene
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 9:01 AM
To: lute mailing list list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: music stands

I like my own K

Best,
Eugene


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  On Behalf Of Lex 
van Sante
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:56 AM
To: Martin Shepherd ; lute mailing list list 

Subject: [LUTE] Re: music stands

Hi Martin, I think the best ones are made by K An alternative is RGB. Both 
are made in Germany or at least made to German standards. They will cost from 
25 to 35 euro depending on where you buy them. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

> Op 17 okt. 2018 om 17:47 heeft Martin Shepherd  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good traditional metal music stand?  I don't mean the 
> very heavy orchestral stand, just a "normal" fold-out one.  I ask because it 
> seems that they're all made in China and are flimsy and unstable.  I have one 
> (I think it's Stagg) where the top attaches to the rest with just one rivet, 
> so it just wobbles.
> 
> I need the little fold-out arms so I can see three-page pieces, too.
> 
> Thanks for any advice,
> 
> M
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirusdata=02%7C01%7C%7Ca19b41e6c3a74378e99708d6344a0849%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753891117503802sdata=ae%2BZdSlpEYHMBX%2BeQayva9BS9I6UiPPdQvs8zJLUTXo%3Dreserved=0
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at 
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7Ca19b41e6c3a74378e99708d6344a0849%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636753891117503802sdata=yx1fbo8m7uusvvMqTBZ8fgZTWx3jjbWAHb7IpafUFgY%3Dreserved=0

[LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Another aspect of Pat's teaching was keeping your shoulder muscles as relaxed 
as possible, so that the upper left arm is basically hanging vertically (or 
close to it). To the extent that you are supporting the weight of your upper 
arm with your muscles, it reduces how much weight comes to bear on the 
fingerboard.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Caroline Usher
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 10:32 AM
To: lutenet (lute@cs.dartmouth.edu)
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

Leonard,
If you rotate the lute along the axis of the strings so that the top edge of 
the soundboard is somewhat closer to your body, the effect is to bring the 
fingerboard a little closer to horizontal.  That will help.

I remember years ago having a long-distance phone conversation with Pat about 
this.  I told him that I simply couldn't play chords without using some 
pressure from my thumb.  Single notes, ok, but not chords.  He asked me a bunch 
of questions about how I was holding the lute, how I was doing it, etc.  
Nothing stood out as the answer to the problem.

Finally he said, "You know, I have to remind myself that my arm probably weighs 
3 times as much as yours."

:)  

This was not the only time I got instruction from a male teacher that presumed 
having a body like theirs, but it was the only time that the teacher caught 
himself in the act.

And yes, I know that female teachers also can make unfounded assumptions about 
their students' experience.  In our world there are so many more male teachers. 
. . .
Caroline

Caroline Usher
Admin. Coordinator / Biology Dept.
613-8155 / fax 660-7293
Box 90338

Beauty is the enemy of expression.
Christian Tetzlaff, violinist


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:22 PM
To: r.turov...@gmail.com; Elliott Chapin 
Cc: Leonard Williams ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

One of the exercises Pat recommended to understand this principle (and to help 
break the habit of pinching the neck with your thumb) was playing without using 
your thumb at all. You can't play as well as you do with the thumb, but it does 
work.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
r.turov...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:28 AM
To: Elliott Chapin
Cc: Leonard Williams; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

That was the cornerstone of Pat’s teaching.
RT

> 
> 
>> On 04/25/2018 10:05 PM, Leonard Williams wrote:
>>   I have frequently read in various lute tutors an admonishment not
>>   to grip the neck between thumb and fingers, but to allow the weight of
>>   the arm to press the strings.  I can never quite get this: the table of
>>   the lute is near perpendicular to the floor; how does the weight of the
>>   arm press the strings?  It rather pulls at the strings while sliding
>>   off.  Is there another way to explain this technical point?
>> 
>>   Thanks and regards,
>> 
>>   Leonard Williams
>> 
>>   --
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttp-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html%26d%3DDwIDaQ%26c%3DimBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc%26r%3DUUZLabKEylgnLyY6PCFo0A%26m%3DYT_twiHfv17FC3Q-C4f6xUslUoHIBIcQI1yfFhEcCsI%26s%3D2c6n_vU_2KpZjMf9511UxBextAKI_K9V9pTHlhIK_ok%26edata=02%7C01%7C%7C205f7cc968254385549308d6039e45f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636700375637874617sdata=WcoaZ5l00ytk%2BRu88B64WssfKEbaSzBz1LahKQIUYuw%3Dreserved=0=
>> 
> 
> -- 
> clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Finger Fracture

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Definitely get it evaluated by a hand specialist to make sure you get the 
appropriate treatment. I had a mallet finger injury to my right middle finger, 
which basically broke off a chip of bone and disconnected the end joint from 
half of the associated muscles and tendons. Splinting probably would have left 
the joint stiff or even immobile, so the surgeon opened it up, sewed the piece 
of bone in place, and then pinned the joint for six weeks. The joint was 
basically frozen during that period, and I not only could not play, I had to 
learn to fence left handed. I did regain full use of the joint but it took 
several months. I haven't played volley ball since then...

Good luck.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
William Walton
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 7:26 AM
To: Edward C. Yong
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Finger Fracture

I had a "hammer" or "mallet" injury to the middle finger of my right hand, 
which is a snapping of the ligament to the final phalanx.  I think that this is 
similar to an avulsion fracture.  The doctor placed the finger in a splint, 
with the injured phalanx bent slightly backward.  After three months the splint 
was removed.  The finger had straightened, and the ligament had re-attached 
itself to the phalanx by the normal process of healing.  The finger was 
extremely stiff however, and it was a few months before it returned to its 
original function.  It is now fully recovered.

Best Brad.

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Edward C. Yong
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 12:28 AM
To: Lute List 
Subject: [LUTE] Finger Fracture

hi lute people. 

i had a fall and ended up injuring my left index finger. specifically an 
avulsion fracture at the base of the intermediate phalanx. have any of you or 
folk you know had such an injury? 

my finger's in a splint now, and i'm wondering how long healing will take. 

i'm seeing the hand surgeon tomorrow and wonder if i should ask for a pin to 
help it set and heal properly. any advice welcome!


Edward Chrysogonus Yong
edward.y...@gmail.com






To get on or off this list see list information at 
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C9d2e1993d320491ca20308d5e1ba3228%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636663112171302570=3Nanr%2FTYhvEdJn7o%2FDJlrvoqdBQey38nj9TqXH9bJqk%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Any liquid lubricant might cause the wood and/or the gut to swell, which isn't 
going to help. Maybe graphite? I use that to lubricate the nut without ill 
effect on either gut or synthetic strings.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Matthew Daillie
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 2:11 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?

On 29/06/2018 22:21, howard posner wrote:
> Matthew, is there a particular reason for not lubricating the string, other 
> than “it won’t work”?  Will it harm the bridge, or make it harder to enlarge 
> the hole?

I'm just concerned that whatever you use is going to seep into the wood 
of the bridge and possibly get onto the soundboard. Sometimes the 
ill-effects of substances used are only seen in the long term (such as 
linseed oil ageing badly on tops and going all yellowy). It's probably 
best to ask a string maker what they use to lubricate gut and then check 
with your lutemaker that no harm will be done.

Best,

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C65bd8aa8430841b9a3b708d5de04df79%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636659034883195059=ZlWXy7G0HttH7D6fOqODu95ba%2FQD7MaOcH9PQIuBOYo%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was apparently 
drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't accommodate larger gut 
strings. I used what's called a pin vise to hold the drill (standard item in 
machine shops), with some tape on the top to protect it from the vise. Then 
just gently spin the pin vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main 
trick is finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between hole 
and top.

Here's one example of a pin vise: 
https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-162A-Vise-0-0-040-Range/dp/B06Y5SG9LD/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi=UTF8=1530300625=1-6=pin+vise

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Matthew Daillie
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?

Hi Howard,

Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb humidity 
and swell over time.
Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you tried 
cutting the end at an angle to slip it through?  You could probably also 
gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some very 
fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening.

Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the 
appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if you're 
interested).

Best,

Matthew

On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote:
> I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which involves 
> moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course becomes the 12th 
> for one stringing B, then gets moved back for stringing A.
>
> I now find that couple of gut extension strings won’t fit through bridge 
> holes that they always fit through before.  I tried blow-drying the string 
> ends, on the assumption that they had swelled with humidity (not a sound 
> assumption where I live), without success.
>
> So now, if I don’t want to string the whole instrument lighter, it seems I 
> have two options:
> widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends.  I’d like to try 
> lubricating first.
>
> Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs?  What do you use?
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636658950444650467=kNJclNqJmJgDeC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF%2FTJcgosQSnHQ%3D=0
>
> ---
> Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com=02%7C01%7C%7C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636658950444650467=PGsIilT0PmX6gfDMlgC0gUGdDH9ZVMB4X44c4eNop4g%3D=0
>
>

[LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

[guy_and_liz Smith]

One of the exercises Pat recommended to understand this principle (and to help 
break the habit of pinching the neck with your thumb) was playing without using 
your thumb at all. You can't play as well as you do with the thumb, but it does 
work.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
r.turov...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:28 AM
To: Elliott Chapin
Cc: Leonard Williams; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left hand technique

That was the cornerstone of Pat’s teaching.
RT

> 
> 
>> On 04/25/2018 10:05 PM, Leonard Williams wrote:
>>   I have frequently read in various lute tutors an admonishment not
>>   to grip the neck between thumb and fingers, but to allow the weight of
>>   the arm to press the strings.  I can never quite get this: the table of
>>   the lute is near perpendicular to the floor; how does the weight of the
>>   arm press the strings?  It rather pulls at the strings while sliding
>>   off.  Is there another way to explain this technical point?
>> 
>>   Thanks and regards,
>> 
>>   Leonard Williams
>> 
>>   --
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> -- 
> clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[guy_and_liz Smith]

This, perhaps:

Louis Armstrong - "There is two kinds of music, the good & the bad. I play the 
good kind."
--
Personally, I'm a purist to the extent that I play only Ren music on the lute 
or sackbut. I play modern music (symphonic band and jazz) on a modern trombone. 
Works for me, but one of these days I might try jazz with the sackbut. Some 
pieces might work nicely with a lutenist that can read a jazz chart, and maybe 
a shawm or dulcian or cornetto...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:28 PM
To: lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on lutes, 
it that early music or modern music?

I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now): 
there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one. Which one 
should we play on which instrument?
Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way of good 
music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined as arthritis of 
the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from having fun with the music?
It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that improvisation is a 
necessary skill for early music and refuse to play contemporary music, don't 
you think?
Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in the 16th 
and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad contemporary music?
Just sticking to the label of this thread...



To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C22289f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: Reconstructed Dowland duet

[guy_and_liz Smith]

LSA published at least one other Nordstrom reconstruction, a ground to go with 
a John Johnson treble (( don't recall which issue; I only have a copy of the 
piece now).

Have any of Lyle's other reconstructions been published, formally or 
informally? I'm guessing that he did at least some of the arranging for The 
Musicians of Swanne Alley, which would be interesting to see given the limited 
and incomplete sources available for English broken consort music.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Nancy Carlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 9:54 AM
To: Lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reconstructed Dowland duet

I remember Paul O'Dette saying that Lyle was among the best of the renaissance 
composers, when talking about his ability to reconstruct missing parts of c1600 
English music.
Nancy
> Dear lute netters,
>
> I seem to remember that Lyle Nordstrom has "reconstructed" a duet part 
> for a piece by Dowland (CLM 62 or 63?).
>
> I have no idea where to find that. Probably in an LSA newsletter or 
> Journal.
>
> Does anybody know?
>
> Are there tables of contents on the LSA web site?
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C4374401bf3fd4b69892408d57954331c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636548324890819985=27sKQoL4WtO34MnIdr9uW9YSDe720ln30q7%2FHbS2zTU%3D=0
>


-- 
Nancy Carlin
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FLuteSocietyofAmerica.org=02%7C01%7C%7C4374401bf3fd4b69892408d57954331c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636548324890819985=M5ST6fZ9GzHzjL4jYClRNR3ws8rjexlvbIbuCyO3Tx0%3D=0

PO Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524
USA
925 / 686-5800

https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.groundsanddivisions.info=02%7C01%7C%7C4374401bf3fd4b69892408d57954331c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636548324890819985=bfBm%2Be7ONQBtdTBkrN%2BmlRQHikXoGbDpfkgQACLM5%2Fw%3D=0
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.nancycarlinassociates.com=02%7C01%7C%7C4374401bf3fd4b69892408d57954331c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636548324890819985=JLZCI5p5IU2kGtTv6mYQxB%2B1gQQr%2BUUMaguiq0bSsxg%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: four and twenty

[guy_and_liz Smith]

As a (now retired) geophysicist, I sometimes think in metric, sometimes in 
traditional units, sometimes in "machinists' metric" (inches and .001 inches), 
and sometimes in "surveyors' metric" (feet, tenths of feet, hundredths of 
feet...). Sometimes I think it makes my head hurt.

On the other hand, I am firmly in favor of returning thorn to the English 
alphabet.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 10:34 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: four and twenty

Because of the constant clinging to weird units, we already lost an expensive 
Mars probe :)


Am 29.01.2018 um 12:55 schrieb Christopher Stetson:
> And, to continue Monica's thoughts, the change Rainer is speaking of
> took place long before there were any standards for teachers at all.
> it also depends on time and place.   In the United States, we have
> certainly had standards for teachers for several decades, including
> grammar, though I have never heard of any authority in any English
> speaking country that could mandate this kind of usage.   However,
> almost all of the English speaking population of the United States
> still think in pints, yards, inches, gallons, and pounds.   The only
> exception would be the scientific community, and I'm sure they're
> "bilingual".   We made an attempt to officially go metric in the early
> 1970's, but the only survivor is soft drinks.   I buy gallons of milk
> and gasoline, but liters of Coke.
> Best to all, and keep playing,
> Chris.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:27 AM, [1]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> <[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
>   There is never likely to be any official reform of the English
>   language.   And teachers don't have a common opinion on what to
>   teach
>   children. The policy is to leave children to find everything out for
>   themselves.
>   As ever
>   Monica
> 
> Original Message
> From: [3]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
> Date: 29/01/2018 9:37
> To: "Lute net"<[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subj: [LUTE] four and twenty
> A clarification:
> I always thought that there must have been (sort of) an official
> reform.
> At least teachers must have a common opinion what to teach children.
> Apparently there was none in England.
> In Germany from time to time "mathematicians" propose to change the
> German system since the current system makes learning Math hard for the
> children.
> Of course, this has nothing to do with mathematics :)
> I guess such a reform (in Germany) would be very confusing for several
> decades.
> Switching from shillings and pennies to 100 pence per pound must have
> been hard.
> Do many people still think in yards, miles, pints, ...?
> Cheers,
> Rainer
> PS
> A new standard kilogram will probably come soon.
> PPS
> Coming back to lute matters: most people describe string tensions in
> terms of Kg which is plain nonsense since Kg is the unit of matter.
> What should be used is Kilopond which is equal to the magnitude of the
> force exerted by one kilogram of mass in a 9.80665 m/s2 gravitational
> field.
> However, officially kilopond should not be used any more (since c1980).
> I still prefer to talk about a tension of 3 Kilopond instead of 29.4
> Newton :)
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> [5]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.
> cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7
> 1e24e403e94f0379a908d56746f395%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%
> 7C0%7C636528476782602642=cSB%2FQoAet5W%2B2lXP9aLBKCj39zqD1yqXOV8
> EWEw6bAA%3D=0
> 
> --
> 
> References
> 
> 1. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 2. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
> 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 5. 
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.
> dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7Ce71e2
> 4e403e94f0379a908d56746f395%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636528476782602642=cSB%2FQoAet5W%2B2lXP9aLBKCj39zqD1yqXOV8EWEw6bAA%3D=0
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I give up. Google "Early Music Underground, Seattle" ...

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:35 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

And another try. I've omitted the http prefix to try to outflank Outlook (yeah, 
I know, I should get another mail client): 
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7Cee946abbb8094009594708d552d8cf97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506013502295287=hTkNGe5InpaRjj%2Bwy4sEyAj%2BQ5J52Ou6CdrW5vHgGjk%3D=0

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:31 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

OK, Outlook was a little too helpful with the link. Here's another try: 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C2873a5865a444c14ab8808d552d832b5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506010867607469=jEeTKqQSJCvYyQw0NpGnLw3Xic9u2dNJ8JMR9sX%2FCu4%3D=0

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:24 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

Pacific MusicWorks in Seattle (Steve Stubbs org) has been doing "underground" 
concerts in a variety of venues, including my favorite brewpub, Naked City 
Brewery, in the Greenwood neighborhood. Worth going to just for the beer, but 
if you hit the right night, you can have some early music to go along with it. 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C8a9d980487ec47722ca208d552d7355d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506006623250746=VX5G2TlxYwQvIcQUdGm4Khrs937b7GUbG7Za9kuB%2BCo%3D=0.

That said, I now live in Port Townsend, which is far enough from Seattle (and 
on the wrong side of Puget Sound, to boot) to get to any of them.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

   Hi Tristan
   I personally didn't study music at university to end up playing
   elevator music in Renaissance Fairs.   I think as serious musicians, it
   is our duty to continue our efforts in educating the public.   And
   medieval faires is not the way to do it.   I therefore disagree with
   the original post about awkward concert situations. Yes informal
   playing is good, but it limits the amount of people who can become
   educated about the music we love.   Concerts with themes and story
   telling is by far the best approach, as well as workshops.   I belong a
   to a Non - profit organization in Montreal, composed of musicians who
   have studied in Basel, and have performed all over; we organize
   workshops and concerts with a different subject each year.   It
   doensn't attract a lot of people, and the occasional medieval fair
   aficionado shows up ( thinking its going to be another medieval fair..)
   but the response is great, people are so happy to learn about the
   different periods.
   you can see what we do at
   
[1]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.reverdiesmontreal.org=02%7C01%7C%7Ca3a12c38e00a410d774b08d552d5048c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636505997217870504=4LGQFQKCWdsJimnTJIxD%2FSbGbDY8ecZz7AbTrWGP%2FBA%3D=0
   we even have people coming from Boston to participate..!! yay...
   Bruno

   2018-01-03 12:54 GMT-05:00 Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 Don't bother Bruno, it's the same here in Germany with the Medieval
 Faires. They claim to cover 13th-15th century, and succeed when it
 comes to housewares, clothing and swordfighting. When it comes to
 music, you consider yourself lucky hearing Susato or Attaignant.
 If you played some Ars Subtilior songs, you would probably be burned
 at the stake.
 Most music is basically techno with shawms, bagpipes, and massive
 drums, though this is kind of a fun genre that developed there...

   Am 03.01.2018 um 18:46 schrieb Bruno Cognyl-Fournier:

   Hi
   I live in Montreal and play Medieval and Renaissance music.Had
   a
   medieval music group for 15 years or so, and frankly I got tired of
   dressing up and going to medieval fairs and banquets, where no-one
   really cares about real medieval music, and just wants background
   noise. Most people who go to these fairs and banquets have no clue
   as
   

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[guy_and_liz Smith]

And another try. I've omitted the http prefix to try to outflank Outlook (yeah, 
I know, I should get another mail client): 
www.pacificmusicworks.org/underground/underground-2017-18-season/

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:31 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

OK, Outlook was a little too helpful with the link. Here's another try: 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C2873a5865a444c14ab8808d552d832b5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506010867607469=jEeTKqQSJCvYyQw0NpGnLw3Xic9u2dNJ8JMR9sX%2FCu4%3D=0

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:24 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

Pacific MusicWorks in Seattle (Steve Stubbs org) has been doing "underground" 
concerts in a variety of venues, including my favorite brewpub, Naked City 
Brewery, in the Greenwood neighborhood. Worth going to just for the beer, but 
if you hit the right night, you can have some early music to go along with it. 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C8a9d980487ec47722ca208d552d7355d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506006623250746=VX5G2TlxYwQvIcQUdGm4Khrs937b7GUbG7Za9kuB%2BCo%3D=0.

That said, I now live in Port Townsend, which is far enough from Seattle (and 
on the wrong side of Puget Sound, to boot) to get to any of them.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

   Hi Tristan
   I personally didn't study music at university to end up playing
   elevator music in Renaissance Fairs.   I think as serious musicians, it
   is our duty to continue our efforts in educating the public.   And
   medieval faires is not the way to do it.   I therefore disagree with
   the original post about awkward concert situations. Yes informal
   playing is good, but it limits the amount of people who can become
   educated about the music we love.   Concerts with themes and story
   telling is by far the best approach, as well as workshops.   I belong a
   to a Non - profit organization in Montreal, composed of musicians who
   have studied in Basel, and have performed all over; we organize
   workshops and concerts with a different subject each year.   It
   doensn't attract a lot of people, and the occasional medieval fair
   aficionado shows up ( thinking its going to be another medieval fair..)
   but the response is great, people are so happy to learn about the
   different periods.
   you can see what we do at
   
[1]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.reverdiesmontreal.org=02%7C01%7C%7Ca3a12c38e00a410d774b08d552d5048c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636505997217870504=4LGQFQKCWdsJimnTJIxD%2FSbGbDY8ecZz7AbTrWGP%2FBA%3D=0
   we even have people coming from Boston to participate..!! yay...
   Bruno

   2018-01-03 12:54 GMT-05:00 Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 Don't bother Bruno, it's the same here in Germany with the Medieval
 Faires. They claim to cover 13th-15th century, and succeed when it
 comes to housewares, clothing and swordfighting. When it comes to
 music, you consider yourself lucky hearing Susato or Attaignant.
 If you played some Ars Subtilior songs, you would probably be burned
 at the stake.
 Most music is basically techno with shawms, bagpipes, and massive
 drums, though this is kind of a fun genre that developed there...

   Am 03.01.2018 um 18:46 schrieb Bruno Cognyl-Fournier:

   Hi
   I live in Montreal and play Medieval and Renaissance music.Had
   a
   medieval music group for 15 years or so, and frankly I got tired of
   dressing up and going to medieval fairs and banquets, where no-one
   really cares about real medieval music, and just wants background
   noise. Most people who go to these fairs and banquets have no clue
   as
   to what medieval music is, and want everyhing from Thoineau Arbault
   Bransle des Chevaux to Lorrena McKennit celtic music.They have
   no
   clue about Cantigas de Santa Maria, Trouvere and troubadour music,
   and
   never mind if you should even attempt to play some Trecento music.
I now only play in concert situations, and organize workshops
   together
   with a bunch of friends, to educate the people.. and I no longer
   dress
   up..
   Back in university s

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[guy_and_liz Smith]

OK, Outlook was a little too helpful with the link. Here's another try: 
http://www.pacificmusicworks.org/underground/underground-2017-18-season/

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
guy_and_liz Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:24 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

Pacific MusicWorks in Seattle (Steve Stubbs org) has been doing "underground" 
concerts in a variety of venues, including my favorite brewpub, Naked City 
Brewery, in the Greenwood neighborhood. Worth going to just for the beer, but 
if you hit the right night, you can have some early music to go along with it. 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificmusicworks.org%2Funderground%2Funderground-2017-18-season%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C8a9d980487ec47722ca208d552d7355d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636506006623250746=VX5G2TlxYwQvIcQUdGm4Khrs937b7GUbG7Za9kuB%2BCo%3D=0.

That said, I now live in Port Townsend, which is far enough from Seattle (and 
on the wrong side of Puget Sound, to boot) to get to any of them.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

   Hi Tristan
   I personally didn't study music at university to end up playing
   elevator music in Renaissance Fairs.   I think as serious musicians, it
   is our duty to continue our efforts in educating the public.   And
   medieval faires is not the way to do it.   I therefore disagree with
   the original post about awkward concert situations. Yes informal
   playing is good, but it limits the amount of people who can become
   educated about the music we love.   Concerts with themes and story
   telling is by far the best approach, as well as workshops.   I belong a
   to a Non - profit organization in Montreal, composed of musicians who
   have studied in Basel, and have performed all over; we organize
   workshops and concerts with a different subject each year.   It
   doensn't attract a lot of people, and the occasional medieval fair
   aficionado shows up ( thinking its going to be another medieval fair..)
   but the response is great, people are so happy to learn about the
   different periods.
   you can see what we do at
   
[1]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.reverdiesmontreal.org=02%7C01%7C%7Ca3a12c38e00a410d774b08d552d5048c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636505997217870504=4LGQFQKCWdsJimnTJIxD%2FSbGbDY8ecZz7AbTrWGP%2FBA%3D=0
   we even have people coming from Boston to participate..!! yay...
   Bruno

   2018-01-03 12:54 GMT-05:00 Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 Don't bother Bruno, it's the same here in Germany with the Medieval
 Faires. They claim to cover 13th-15th century, and succeed when it
 comes to housewares, clothing and swordfighting. When it comes to
 music, you consider yourself lucky hearing Susato or Attaignant.
 If you played some Ars Subtilior songs, you would probably be burned
 at the stake.
 Most music is basically techno with shawms, bagpipes, and massive
 drums, though this is kind of a fun genre that developed there...

   Am 03.01.2018 um 18:46 schrieb Bruno Cognyl-Fournier:

   Hi
   I live in Montreal and play Medieval and Renaissance music.Had
   a
   medieval music group for 15 years or so, and frankly I got tired of
   dressing up and going to medieval fairs and banquets, where no-one
   really cares about real medieval music, and just wants background
   noise. Most people who go to these fairs and banquets have no clue
   as
   to what medieval music is, and want everyhing from Thoineau Arbault
   Bransle des Chevaux to Lorrena McKennit celtic music.They have
   no
   clue about Cantigas de Santa Maria, Trouvere and troubadour music,
   and
   never mind if you should even attempt to play some Trecento music.
I now only play in concert situations, and organize workshops
   together
   with a bunch of friends, to educate the people.. and I no longer
   dress
   up..
   Back in university some 40 years ago, it was fun to go play in
   medieval
   and renaissance banquets.. no longer is the case for me
   Bruno
   2018-01-03 11:46 GMT-05:00 Samuel Lawson <[1][3]sjlaw...@sdf.org>:
 Hallo, Tristan et al.
 I play a 16th-century-style 8-course lute.
 I live in Indianapolis, IN, USA. My wife and I perform at
 some renaissance faires [sic] and Scottish Highland games.
 While Renaissance Faire music tends toward novelty songs, I
 am adamant on including a handful of John Dowland,
 Pickeringe, and some tunes from the Scottish lutebooks
 Straloch and R

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Pacific MusicWorks in Seattle (Steve Stubbs org) has been doing "underground" 
concerts in a variety of venues, including my favorite brewpub, Naked City 
Brewery, in the Greenwood neighborhood. Worth going to just for the beer, but 
if you hit the right night, you can have some early music to go along with it. 
http://www.pacificmusicworks.org/underground/underground-2017-18-season/.

That said, I now live in Port Townsend, which is far enough from Seattle (and 
on the wrong side of Puget Sound, to boot) to get to any of them.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life

   Hi Tristan
   I personally didn't study music at university to end up playing
   elevator music in Renaissance Fairs.   I think as serious musicians, it
   is our duty to continue our efforts in educating the public.   And
   medieval faires is not the way to do it.   I therefore disagree with
   the original post about awkward concert situations. Yes informal
   playing is good, but it limits the amount of people who can become
   educated about the music we love.   Concerts with themes and story
   telling is by far the best approach, as well as workshops.   I belong a
   to a Non - profit organization in Montreal, composed of musicians who
   have studied in Basel, and have performed all over; we organize
   workshops and concerts with a different subject each year.   It
   doensn't attract a lot of people, and the occasional medieval fair
   aficionado shows up ( thinking its going to be another medieval fair..)
   but the response is great, people are so happy to learn about the
   different periods.
   you can see what we do at
   
[1]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.reverdiesmontreal.org=02%7C01%7C%7Ca3a12c38e00a410d774b08d552d5048c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636505997217870504=4LGQFQKCWdsJimnTJIxD%2FSbGbDY8ecZz7AbTrWGP%2FBA%3D=0
   we even have people coming from Boston to participate..!! yay...
   Bruno

   2018-01-03 12:54 GMT-05:00 Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:

 Don't bother Bruno, it's the same here in Germany with the Medieval
 Faires. They claim to cover 13th-15th century, and succeed when it
 comes to housewares, clothing and swordfighting. When it comes to
 music, you consider yourself lucky hearing Susato or Attaignant.
 If you played some Ars Subtilior songs, you would probably be burned
 at the stake.
 Most music is basically techno with shawms, bagpipes, and massive
 drums, though this is kind of a fun genre that developed there...

   Am 03.01.2018 um 18:46 schrieb Bruno Cognyl-Fournier:

   Hi
   I live in Montreal and play Medieval and Renaissance music.Had
   a
   medieval music group for 15 years or so, and frankly I got tired of
   dressing up and going to medieval fairs and banquets, where no-one
   really cares about real medieval music, and just wants background
   noise. Most people who go to these fairs and banquets have no clue
   as
   to what medieval music is, and want everyhing from Thoineau Arbault
   Bransle des Chevaux to Lorrena McKennit celtic music.They have
   no
   clue about Cantigas de Santa Maria, Trouvere and troubadour music,
   and
   never mind if you should even attempt to play some Trecento music.
I now only play in concert situations, and organize workshops
   together
   with a bunch of friends, to educate the people.. and I no longer
   dress
   up..
   Back in university some 40 years ago, it was fun to go play in
   medieval
   and renaissance banquets.. no longer is the case for me
   Bruno
   2018-01-03 11:46 GMT-05:00 Samuel Lawson <[1][3]sjlaw...@sdf.org>:
 Hallo, Tristan et al.
 I play a 16th-century-style 8-course lute.
 I live in Indianapolis, IN, USA. My wife and I perform at
 some renaissance faires [sic] and Scottish Highland games.
 While Renaissance Faire music tends toward novelty songs, I
 am adamant on including a handful of John Dowland,
 Pickeringe, and some tunes from the Scottish lutebooks
 Straloch and Rowallan.
 I am also called upon for the occasional wedding and school
 events.
 Cheers,
 Samuel J. Lawson
 On Wed, 3 Jan 2018, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 14:41:57 +0100
 From: Tristan von Neumann <[2][4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 To: lutelist Net <[3][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

   Subject: [LUTE] Early Music life
   Happy New Year to all who are on the European calendar.
   Here's one question - is there any noticeable Early Music life
 going
   on in your
   neighborhood, besides 

[LUTE] Re: New music

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've been playing a fair amount of jazz lately (on trombone, not lute, but 
that's another story). Jazz charts are conceptually similar to figured base; 
the details are different, but it's the same basic idea. Shouldn't be any 
harder to play from a chart with lute than it is with guitar, and there are 
tons of charts available.

At LSA seminars past, I've heard both Pat O'Brien and Paul O'Dette play jazz 
standards on Baroque instruments and it sounded great (especially with Ellen 
Hargis vocals). That said, I'm not sure if they were working from a chart or 
had transcribed the pieces.

Guy  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
r.turov...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:12 PM
To: Dan Winheld
Cc: Ron Andrico; Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music

King Crimson’s Epitaph also works well!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan Winheld  wrote:
> 
> Excellent! There aren't nearly enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute.  
> Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's vocal range & style.
> 
> 
>> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>>I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that
>>is an entirely different brow level!
>>RT
>> 
>>On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
>> 
>>Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute.  A sound
>>engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and
>>is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
>>performances.  He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and
>>very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest,
>>direct, and convincing music.  We're OK with that.
>> 
>>RA
>>  __
>> 
>>From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2] on
>>behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]
>>Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM
>>To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
>>Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
>> 
>>If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look
>>for
>>another
>>instrument for myself.
>>Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that
>>permeates the
>>commercial mass culture.
>>Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash
>>against mass production,
>>and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
>>RT
>>On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
>>> Interesting mail, Tristan.
>>> While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute
>>flourish in
>>> the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is
>>actually
>>> in more popular types of music.
>>> I think a few factors might block that though:
>>> 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his
>>videos (If
>>> I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and
>>that
>>> fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people
>>don't
>>> know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
>>> 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or
>>want to
>>> buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced
>>Pakistani
>>> lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough,
>>would
>>> do wonders to the lute world.
>>> 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of
>>the old
>>> music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example)
>>suddenly
>>> started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
>>> definitely see a large influx of new players. Having
>>intabulations of
>>> popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to
>>bring
>>> the instrument out of obscurity.
>>> The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems
>>of
>>> French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool
>>(but
>>> obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and
>>warm
>>> tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my
>>opinion).
>>> I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above
>>problems.
>>> On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
>>> [4]<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>   This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
>>>   explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
>>>   Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and
>>more
>>>   of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh
>>no -
>>>   back in the pundaemonium...)
>>>   

[LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

[guy_and_liz Smith]

And for those of you who aren't familiar with application programming, porting 
a Windows App to Linux or OS X is a non-trivial exercise (as is porting an OS X 
app to Windows, and...).

When I had work with both Windows and Linux, I used two machines with a KVM 
switch that allowed me to use one keyboard/mouse/monitor and just switch them 
from one machine to the other. It saves a lot of space on your desk. You can 
probably find adequate Windows desktop machines for a good bit less than a 
comparable laptop, and KVM switches don't cost all that much.

Guy 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ron Andrico
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:55 AM
To: John Mardinly; Ron Banks
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

   Precisely, as I mentioned earlier...

   Francesco designed the program to run in Windows, for better or for
   worse.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of John Mardinly 
   Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 4:36 PM
   To: Ron Banks
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

   Ron;
   Thank you for the informed comments. However, by the time you
   acquire Parallels or VmWare Fusion plus a copy of Windows, might it be
   cheaper and less hassle to just purchase a cheap laptop on Ebay,
   Craig’s list or whatever?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
   > On Sep 29, 2017, at 7:18 AM, Ron Banks  wrote:
   >
   > Lynda,
   >
   > I’m currently running both Fronimo 2.1 and 3.0 on my Mac and Linux
   (Ubuntu) systems using Wine (version 2.0.1).  My Macs are running OS X
   El Capitan, but I’ve also had success using Fronimo on OS X Yosemite.
   Other Mac Fronimo users might need to give their input on this, as I’m
   not really a Fronimo power user. For my needs, it runs well enough.
   >
   > The setup under Wine can be a little finicky, and may take some
   tweaking to get things to run correctly - but if you’re persistent, it
   can be done.   If you’re comfortable using the command line on your
   Mac, Wine is the cheapest way to get Fronimo running.  There are some
   drawbacks to using Wine, as very few Windows apps run flawlessly in
   Wine – it’s usually a hit-and-miss affair.  If you’re not comfortable
   with the command line, there are a few “helper” apps to get started,
   such as WineSkin, WineBottler, (and WineTricks on Linux) that will
   allow you to tweak the Wine setup and application installation using a
   graphical interface.
   >
   > If you’ve got additional Windows programs to run, I’d suggest using
   either VMware Fusion, Parallels, or Oracle VirtualBox to run Windows as
   a virtual machine on your Mac.   The down-side of using a Virtual
   Machine, is that you’ll need a licensed copy of Windows for the virtual
   machine.  Also, if your Mac is an older laptop like mine (2010-2012),
   running VM sessions can cause the laptop to run hotter than normal.  It
   will spin the hard drive and fans up constantly, and the additional
   heat may exacerbate issues with the GPU failures the older machines are
   prone to experience.  My Mac Pro doesn’t have that problem.
   >
   > Take care,
   >
   > Ron Banks
   >
   > On 9/27/17, 10:51 PM, "Lynda Kraar"  wrote:
   >
   >Lute friends -
   >How do I run Fronimo on a Mac?
   >Thanks,
   >Lynda
   >
   >
   >
   >To get on or off this list see list information at
   >
   [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CgN
   tutmgmwU5F-9ylof9ZMdpK6eHfkrfdPxIPxi0BoQ=Hx0De5mVmu2ZPKrws1zk9eZxNsw0
   5OIHxbyKJy3lbPA=
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >

   --

References

   1. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CgNtutmgmwU5F-9ylof9ZMdpK6eHfkrfdPxIPxi0BoQ=Hx0De5mVmu2ZPKrws1zk9eZxNsw05OIHxbyKJy3lbPA=

[LUTE] Re: Ballard's 2nd book

[guy_and_liz Smith]

There's a couple of facsimiles on IMSLP: 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Ballard%2C_Pierre .

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Nancy Carlin
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 2:33 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Ballard's 2nd book

I am interested in Ballard's music - does anyone know of a place where I can 
see the facsimile online, or have a pdf file they could shre with me?
Nancy

--
Nancy Carlin
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org

PO Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524
USA
925 / 686-5800

www.groundsanddivisions.info
www.nancycarlinassociates.com



To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Sermisy - Dont vient cela

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Also German. I have a couple of versions that I play from one of the Bavarian 
manuscripts that Richard Darsie edited some years ago (MS 1612, I think, but 
it's not handy at the moment). However, the piece was spelled something like 
Dubienschela.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 8:28 AM
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Sermisy - Dont vient cela

Interesting - There are many intabulations of Dont vient cela including English 
and Italian sources. It was a very popular tune. I don't suppose there are any 
plans for the CMME format to support tablature...?

Using the old French "Dont" BTW solves the accent's problem, as opposed to the 
modern  "D'où" ... Obviously Monica is blissfully unaware of all the political 
issues linked to  the "réforme de l'orthographe" in France. Getting rid of 
accents is akin to the English getting rid of the pound and switching to euros 
instead: a very sensitive issue likely to cause large numbers of people to 
gather in the streets, some of them armed with pitch forks.

Alain


On 07/26/2017 04:16 AM, Ralf Mattes wrote:
>   
> Am Mittwoch, 26. Juli 2017 04:59 CEST, "Edward C. Yong" 
>  schrieb:
>   
>> Hello!
>> Years ago I had the London Pro Musica edition of Sermisy's D'où vient
>> cela - it came together with Tant que vivray in a nice SATB version
>> with a solo voice plus lute insert. I can't now find that insert. Tant
>> que vivray is everywhere on the internet but not
>> D'où vient cela. Would anyone have it in electronic form anywhere?
>> Many thanks in advance!
> An excellent starting point for research would be:
>
>   http://ricercar.cesr.univ-tours.fr/3-programmes/basechanson/index.htm
>
> In your case that would lead to
>
>   
> http://ricercar.cesr.univ-tours.fr/3-programmes/basechanson/03231-3.asp?numfiche=2080
>
> Which links to an edition (in XML format) of the chanson. That xml is in CMME 
> format, so it
> does need some pre-processing ...
>
> HTH, Ralf Mattes
>> Edward C. Yong
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>
>
>

[LUTE] Re: Source for Guedron, "Aux Plaisirs".

[guy_and_liz Smith]

IMSLP is a great source for facsimiles (I've played from many of them in wind 
bands and looked at a lot more), but the quality of the edited versions varies 
a lot. Check the composer's Collections tab to see if you can find a facsimile 
version to at least verify that the edited version you are looking at bears 
some resemblance to the original. For starters, I've never seen a piece written 
prior to the early 17th century that wasn't in what we would think of as C or F 
(i.e., zero or one flat). If the edited version is in a sharp key, or has 
multiple flats, it's likely been transposed and perhaps further muddled. 
Transposition is not necessarily a bad thing or even ahistorical, since 
instrumental musicians would often transpose the written pitch to get around 
range or fingering issues, but it does indicate at least some editorial 
modification. Of course, the facsimiles themselves can be damaged or corrupt, 
and then there's ficta, and ...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Sean Smith
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 9:20 AM
To: lute list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Source for Guedron, "Aux Plaisirs".


Interesting to see this play out again. I was in exactly the same situation 2 
years ago, scratching my head over this same piece of music that I thought I 
had prepared for. Any others out there?

Ron, I agree, learning about sources is every bit as important as technique, 
instruments and aesthetics. Over the last 20 years I've put zillions of files 
together for concerts, organization or study. Many of them might be useful for 
others but to put them up blindly (or even the necessary information) would be 
madness. While once or twice useful, eventually there's the probability I'd be 
guilty of the same misinformation as our 19th/20th century forbearers. For 
every Howard M. Brown, Colin Slim and A. Ness there are a dozen Flaxlands, 
Durands and me's.

The beauty of the net is that there's no editor. The tragic downfall of the net 
is that there's no editor. 

Sean


On Apr 25, 2017, at 5:28 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

>   Christopher, what you have encountered is a 19th-century romantic
>   re-composed version of the air, and is from Échos de France: Recueil
>   des plus célèbres airs, romances, duos, etc., first published in Paris
>   in 1853 by Flaxland, later editions published by Durand.  The
>   re-imagined 19th-century version of Aux plaisirs is from Vol.1
>   (pp.85-87).
> 
>   This is also evidence of the total collapse of facts, truth, and real
>   access to actual cultural landmarks that is a result of the massive
>   uncollated barrage of questionable information disseminated on the
>   internet.  In other words, this is what happens when one innocently
>   surfs for free music.
> 
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
>   of Christopher Stetson 
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 1:50 AM
>   To: Andreas Schlegel; Lute List
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Source for Guedron, "Aux Plaisirs".
> 
>  So I went to rehearse this song with a singer who said she'd been
>  working on it, and she was surprised as she had been working on this
>  version:
> 
>   [1]http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP406285-PMLP305517
>  -Aux_plaisirs__aux_d__lices.pdf
>  Does anyone know the origin of it?
>  Thanks,
>  Chris.
>  On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Christopher Stetson
>  <[2]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Thank you, Andreas.
>  On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 12:49 AM, Andreas Schlegel
>  <[3]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch> wrote:
>  After Guillo
>  [4]https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1875319692
>  3=sortby%3D17%26an%3Dguillo%2Blaurent
>  p. 340:
>  1v et luth: P.Guédron, tabl. G.Bataille: 1614-C
>  1v P.Guédron 1615-B
>  5v P.Guédron 1617-G+
>  Andreas
>  Am 08.04.2017 um 05:29 schrieb Christopher Stetson
>  <[5]christophertstet...@gmail.com>:
>   Hi,
>   Can someone tell me where I can find Pierre Guedron's "Aux
>Plaisirs,
>   aux Delices Bergeres"?I know someone knows off-hand, and I
>don't
>   have  the time to go searching myself.
>   Thanks,
>   Chris.
>   --
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>[6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  Andreas Schlegel
>  Eckstr. 6
>  CH-5737 Menziken
>  [7]+41 (0)62 771 47 07
>  [8]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
>  --
>   References
>  1.
>   [1]http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP406285-PMLP305517
>   -Aux_plaisirs__aux_d__lices.pdf
>  2. [2]mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
>  3. [3]mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
>  4.
>   

[LUTE] Re: Der ander theil

[guy_and_liz Smith]

No, that's a later work. Der Ander Theil was published in 1536. It might be 
somewhere else on that site, though. I'll poke around and see what I can find.

Thanks,

Guy

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 15, 2017, at 3:58 PM, Alain Veylit <al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
> 
> Is this it? 
> https://digital.blb-karlsruhe.de/blbihd/Musikalien/content/titleinfo/243869
> 
> 
> 
>> On 04/15/2017 02:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:
>>Does anyone know where I can get a facsimile of H. Neusidler’s Der
>>Ander Theil des Lautenbuchs. I’ve got Miles Dempster’s edited French
>>tab version, but I’d like to have the original for reference. I could
>>have sworn I saw one on IMSLP relatively recently, and LSA has a link
>>to a copy on Sarge Gerbode’s site. However, when I went looking today,
>>although I found Neusidler facsimiles on both sites, Der Ander Theil
>>was AWOL.
>> 
>> 
>>Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>>Guy
>> 
>>--
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 

[LUTE] Der ander theil

[guy_and_liz Smith]

   Does anyone know where I can get a facsimile of H. Neusidler’s Der
   Ander Theil des Lautenbuchs. I’ve got Miles Dempster’s edited French
   tab version, but I’d like to have the original for reference. I could
   have sworn I saw one on IMSLP relatively recently, and LSA has a link
   to a copy on Sarge Gerbode’s site. However, when I went looking today,
   although I found Neusidler facsimiles on both sites, Der Ander Theil
   was AWOL.


   Thanks,


   Guy

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Adieu mes amours?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Thanks all. I wasn't aware of these sites and Google apparently doesn't rank 
them very highly in my results list (probably because I've never used them...). 
They look quite useful, though.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Arthur Ness
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:48 AM
To: arthurjn...@verizon.net; guy_and_...@msn.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Adieu mes amours?

   Also (better?)

   http://music.dalitio.de/choir/josquin/adieu-mes-amours/adieumesamours.p
   df

   Arthur Ness
   arthurjn...@verizon.net

   -Original Message-
   From: Arthur Ness <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
   To: guy_and_liz <guy_and_...@msn.com>; lute <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>;
   arthurjness <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
   Sent: Tue, Apr 11, 2017 12:34 pm
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Adieu mes amours?
   Choral Wiki (free)
   [1]http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/images/e/ee/Josquin_Adieu_mes_amours_4v.pd
   f
   Another good place to look is in the World Catalogue.  Or Google.
   By the way, is this by Josquin?
   Arthur Ness
   [2]arthurjn...@verizon.net
   -Original Message-----
   From: guy_and_liz Smith <[3]guy_and_...@msn.com>
   To: Lute List <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Tue, Apr 11, 2017 12:13 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Adieu mes amours?
   Can anyone point me to a texted version of Josquin's Adieu mes Amours?
   All I can find (on IMSLP) is several instrumental versions and Mouton's
   arrangement of the piece (which does at least have text). Is it buried
   in one of the (many) collections or are there sources other than IMSLP
   that don't show up readily with search tools?
   Guy
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/images/e/ee/Josquin_Adieu_mes_amours_4v.pdf
   2. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net
   3. mailto:guy_and_...@msn.com
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Adieu mes amours?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

   Can anyone point me to a texted version of Josquin’s Adieu mes Amours?
   All I can find (on IMSLP) is several instrumental versions and Mouton’s
arrangement of the piece (which does at least have text). Is it buried
   in one of the (many) collections or are there sources other than IMSLP
   that don’t show up readily with search tools?


   Guy

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Continuo: Score vs Part; also Page-Turners

[guy_and_liz Smith]

A  melody line is handy, especially for recitative but I'd rather not deal with 
a full score. Too many page turns.

A related question: what did continuo players use back in the day, i.e., when 
did we start publishing part music as a score? That's a common practice in 
modern editions, but most of the 16th and early 17th century music that I've 
played in various wind bands was originally published as individual parts, 
often in separate books (Gesualdo being a notable exception). Most of the 
Baroque music I've played (mainly opera and orchestral continuo) was in 
(relatively) modern editions, so I'm not sure about the originals. At least 
some Baroque music that I'm familiar with (Castello, for example), was 
published as part music; continuo is just another part book.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
howard posner
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:17 AM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Continuo: Score vs Part; also Page-Turners

It’s always nice to have the score, or the melodic line, in the continuo part.  
I’ve done a lot of cutting and pasting to avoid inconvenient page turns.

> On Mar 15, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Edward Chrysogonus Yong  
> wrote:
> 
>  Dear Lutenetters who play basso continuo,
>   Is there a preference either way for playing from bass part or full
>   score, assuming both have the same figures?




To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tab reader?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I use digital composition tools occasionally, and find MIDI playback very 
useful for proofreading. A lot of mistakes are pretty quick and easy to catch 
in MIDI, even if it does sound like a first-gen video game soundtrack. That's 
about it, though...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Josef Berger
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 7:23 AM
To: Leonard Williams
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: tab reader?

Several people have spent parts of their academic career on optical character 
recognition of tablature. Of course, given the error rates, a human musician 
might still be useful to proofread any automatic output.

I am not aware of a playback function, but once the sound information is 
digitalised, a MIDI output should be possible to program. (But then again, 
"since when is MIDI music?")

Christoph Dalitz & Tim Crawford (2013): From Facsimile to content based 
retrieval: the electronic corpus of lute music. Phoibos - Zeitschrift für 
Zupfmusik 2/2013:167-185.
http://lionel.kr.hsnr.de/~dalitz/data/publications/phoibos-ecolm.pdf

Christoph Dalitz & Christine Pranzas (2009): German Lute Tablature Recognition. 
Conference Paper, read at the 10th International Conference on Document 
Analysis and Recognition, ICDAR 2009, Barcelona, Spain, 26-29 July 2009. 
doi:10.1109/ICDAR.2009.52 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220860518_German_Lute_Tablature_Recognition

Possibly also relevant in this context:

de Valk, R. (2015). Structuring lute tablature and MIDI data: Machine learning 
models for voice separation in symbolic music representations. (Doctoral 
thesis, City, University of London) http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/15659/


2017-02-04 19:46 GMT+01:00 Leonard Williams :
> Has anyone managed to devise an optical character reader which 
> can read tablature and, given tuning parameters, play it back?  Just 
> curious;  I'd really rather hear (and watch) a human musician.
>
> Regards,
> Leonard
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at 
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Quick Callus

[guy_and_liz Smith]

   I sometimes have to actually remove callus, especially from the tip of
   my middle finger, where it can form a sort of corn that creates a point
   force on the underlying tissue that can get quite uncomfortable. It
   seems to be more of a problem with theorbo than Ren lute, perhaps
   because my theorbo has single strings, which concentrate the pressure
   on the finger more than the double stringing on my Ren lutes.
   Side note: I once knew a French Horn player who practiced so much that
   he had to have a corn removed from his lip.
   Guy
   > Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 18:13:14 +
   > To: praelu...@hotmail.com
   > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > From: john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Quick Callus
   >
   > Ron;
   >
   > What I wanted to avoid was pain, misery and frustration. In 4 months
   of
   > playing as much as possible every day (frustratingly not enough), I
   was
   > hoping to at at least "condition" my LH fingertips (thick
   callousnesses
   > not really needed, I thought) , but it just wasn't happening. This
   > QuickCallus stuff has helped tremendously. Well, at 67, a lot of
   things
   > don't work like they did when I was young, but I thought 4 months
   would
   > have been enough to condition my fingertips to play at least 4 hours.
   > Apparently not.
   >
   > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   > Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   > EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   > But don't call the labI won't be there!
   >
   > On Jun 26, 2016, at 8:54 AM, Ron Andrico <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   > wrote:
   >
   > I should think that you would want to avoid heavy calluses like those
   > a
   > guitarist might have, particularly on the right hand. I find that
   > the
   > sort of left-hand calluses I develop playing steel-stringed guitar
   > can
   > be problematic in terms of the essential light touch needed for
   > fingering the strings of the lute with clarity and agility. Usually,
   > I
   > have to swear off playing guitar for several days before playing a
   > lute
   > concert.
   > Ron Andrico
   > __
   > From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   > behalf
   > of John Mardinly <[6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:54 PM
   > To: lute list
   > Subject: [LUTE] Quick Callus
   > Anybody ever try this stuff? In the 4 months since I retired and
   > have
   > playing as much as possible every day, either I have not built up
   > callouses, or they wear off faster than I can rebuild them, and my
   > fingers have just been killing me. Maybe it's just oulde age that
   > I
   > can't grow callouses like when I was young, but since I discovered
   > this
   > stuff, my life has been much better.
   > [1][7]https://www.quikcallus.com
   > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   > Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   > EMail: [2][8]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > Cell: [3]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   > But don't call the labI won't be there!
   > References
   > 1. [1][9]https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > [2]Quik Callus. The original liquid callus enhancer for ...
   > [10]www.quikcallus.com
   > Quik Callus - A safe, non-toxic artificial callus for musicians,
   > runners, and weightlifters that promotes natural callus development.
   > Prevents guitar finger pain ...
   > 2. [3][11]mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 3. [12]tel:408-921-3253
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > --
   > References
   > 1. [14]https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 2. [15]https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 3. [16]mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 4. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 2. tel:408-921-3253
   > 3. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   > 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > 5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > 6. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 7. https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 8. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 9. https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 10. http://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 11. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 12. tel:408-921-3253
   > 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > 14. https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 15. https://www.quikcallus.com/
   > 16. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   > 17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

[LUTE] Re: Crawford Young LSA Concert Program

[guy_and_liz Smith]

He played primarily a single line, although he occasionally used a strum or 
his middle finger to add an extra note or two for additional color. IIRC, 
Crawford primarily took the contratenor line, but that's based mainly on 
what I got from his class. BTW, it was two voices and/or vielle, so it was 
mostly three part music. Eve traded off singing and playing vielle (not a 
hurdy-gurdy, it's a bowed instrument something like a viola in general size, 
shape, and pitch). I don't recall who played on which pieces. Someone did 
make a video of the concert, but I don't recall who and I don't know if it's 
available. Best thing might be to contact Crawford.

FWIW, I made a recording (with Crawford's permission) of the entire concert 
on my Zoom H2. However, it's in the form of two huge .wav files right now. 
When I get some time, I'm going to break it down into tracks and convert 
them to MP3, which will be a bit more manageable.

Guy

- Original Message - 
From: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Crawford Young LSA Concert Program


 Dear Guy,

 By now you will have received a copy of the programme from Daniel
 Shoskes. It looks an interesting collection of pieces. If you can
 remember, please could you give some indication as to how these pieces
 were performed? I see that there were two singers, a vielle
 (=hurdy-gurdy?), and Crawford Young on lute. Did the lute take a single
 line out of three voices, and if so, which one? Any information on their
 line-up for individual pieces would be appreciated.

 Best wishes,

 Stewart McCoy.

 -Original Message-
 From: Guy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 16 July 2008 05:12
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Crawford Young LSA Concert Program

 Did anyone manage to hang on to the program from Crawford Young's
 concert at
 LSA? Mine seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. If so, could you
 please
 send me the list of pieces on the program.



 Thanks,



 Guy




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Frets

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Not necessarily. When I changed my alto from equal temperament to sixth 
comma meantone, the frets were fine after the shift. You aren't really 
moving them all that much for sixth comma. I've never tried quarter comma, 
so I can't say how that would affect fretting.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Bruno Correia 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Other [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:43 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Frets


 Dear All:
  Does this also imply different fret gauges? For example, many players use 
 a fourth fret that is substantially closer to the third fret than it would 
 be in equal temperament, to achieve purer major thirds. Would one thus pay 
 closer attention to diminishing the diameter of the fourth fret to avoid 
 buzzing when the third fret is fingered?
 Cheers,
 Jim


 From: The Other [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2008/05/13 Tue AM 08:08:48 CDT
 To: Bruno Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lute List 
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Frets

 Yes Bruno, the fret spacing is different than that used in equal
 temperament.

 See David van Ooijen's website-  http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

 Click the Yellow box (shows a lute rose?). Under his Writings tab on the
 left side navigation pane, select Meantone Temperament for Lute.  An
 excellent article with directions to set up a Renaissance G tuned lute
 for One Quarter Comma Meantone Temperament, and One Sixth Comma Meantone
 Temperament (used more frequently by lutenists who wish to play in
 ensembles with other musicians).

 Regards,
 Stephen.

 On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 16:45 -0300, Bruno Correia wrote:
  Dear  Stephen,
 
  Thanks for the photos, I've never seen anything like this before! It's
  impressive to see how unequal the frets are placed, I imagine it's
  because of the 4th comma meantone.
  Recently I played on a vihuela with this fret placement (without the
  tastini) and sounded very nice, however a bit difficult to understand
  the left hand...
 
  Thanks for your kind response.
 



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


 

[LUTE] Re: Longest 6c piece?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If memory serves, it was not something that Jacob had recorded, at least at 
that point. In fact, I'm not sure if he has even performed the entire thing, 
he played only one section (of three?) in the concert (I remember it as 
longish, but well short of 18 minutes). It might have been a Josquin 
intabulation, since Jacob was working on his Josquin CD at the time, but 
again, memory fades... Maybe someone on the east side of the pond could just 
ask Jacob the next time they see him.

Guy

- Original Message - 
From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orphenica [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Longest 6c piece?


 Twas not a bid, just a pointing out that the Black Cow recording did
 not contain the 18 mins JH performance mentioned by Guy Smith; but
 anyone can make anything continue to their heart's content with
 variations, surely?
 Anthony

 Le 16 avr. 08 =E0 12:23, Orphenica a ecrit :

  Now as the long distance record has been cooked down from an hour
  to 8 mins
  a more decent bid:
 
  During the Int. Lutefestival in Regensburg Bart Roose performed a
  Fantasy by Neusidler
  which is about 12 Mins. On his highly recommended CD (Ein
  newgeordent kunstlich Lautenbuch) Bart
  needs 12:38. As far as I remember he said, there is another
  Fantasie bei Neusidler that's about 15 mins.
 
  Another good candidat for long distance lute playing is probably
  Albert de Rippe: Fantasie IV (about 10 mins)
  Any one bidding more?
 
  we
 
 
  Anthony Hind schrieb:
 
  Rob
  Those are the longest ones on Jacob's Bakfark Black cow, but they
  are short compared to the ones you are speaking, two over 6, and two
  over 4 and a bit.
  over 8
  http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/12.m3u
  Over 6
  http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/13.m3u
  Over 4
  http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/07.m3u
  http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/08.m3u
 
  I can't see what lute he is using.
 
  Anthony
 
  Le 15 avr. 08 =E0 22:36, Rob MacKillop a ecrit :
 
 
  An hour to perform - and an eternity to listen to, I imagine. It
  raises the
  question as to whether it is a 'composition' or a catalogue of
  examples. I
  haven't seen the notation. What do you think, Are?
 
  The Bakfark sounds more interesting. Anyone have more details?
 
  Rob
 
 
  On 15/04/2008, Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 
  Vincenzo Galilei wrote 100 variations over the Romanesca, which
  would take
  more than one hour to perform.
 
 
  Are
 
 
  IIRC, there's a Bakfark intabulation that runs around 18
  minutes. I
 
  heard
 
  Jacob Herringman play part of it once, but that was some years
  ago and I
  don't recall the name.
 
  Guy
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:53 AM
  To: Lute List
  Subject: [LUTE] Longest 6c piece?
 
  I've just been listening to Bart Roose's very good recording of
  music by
  Neusidler (www.passacaille.be) - it has raised the profile of
  Neuslider
 
  for
 
  me at least. Anyway, there is one track which clocks in at 12
  minutes 38
  seconds - Ein sehr kunstreicher Preambel oder Fantasey. Is this
  the
 
  longest
 
  6c piece? Depends how fast you play it, of course! I'm not used to
 
  hearing
 
  such long pieces on the 6c. Very nice piece, by the way. I
  usually get
 
  very
 
  restless listening to 6c recordings - so many short pieces. This
  makes a
  change.
 
  Rob
 
  --
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
 
 
  --
 
 


 --
 

[LUTE] Re: Aging wood outdoors.

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Nothing necessarily wrong with kiln-drying. I'm working with a nice slab of 
kiln-dried red beech right now that's very stable. However, if the folks 
running the kiln try to rush things, the wood can get pretty messed up, and 
it's not always obvious until you do something like cut it.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rob Dorseymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: 'Guy Smith'mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; 'lutelist'mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:10 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Aging wood outdoors.


  Hi All,

  Had to weigh in. To paraphrase the great Guido Sarduci, Wood is'a my beat.
  I have had good results with kiln dried poplar for lute necks. It has proven
  quite stable. The bias against kiln drying I think stems mostly from tone
  woods. Most of the Pac NW tone wood cutters dry the splits outside in drying
  sheds where the splits are stacked at 90 degree layers separated by small
  blocks to keep them from touching. Here they may spend more than a year.
  Finish drying is mostly done inside but again only in a non-controlled
  shed. I try to additionally age any tops at least a year in my shop which
  seems to make the finished lute have a more mature sound, even when new. I
  have on my shelf two real German Spruce tops I bought from Bob Lundberg in
  1985. At that time he said that they were about 30 years old. He had bought
  them from the estate of a luthier in Germany while lecturing in Erlangen.
  Don't nobody get excited. They are for instruments for myself. I'm selfish
  that way. They are slightly age darkened (they're in the rough so I expect
  them to be white inside) but ring like bells when tapped.

  Best,
  Rob Dorsey
  http://RobDorsey.comhttp://robdorsey.com/

  -Original Message-
  From: Guy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:36 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'lutelist'
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Aging wood outdoors.

  Indeed. Wood that's dried too rapidly can behave very strangely and is often
  unstable. I had some kiln-dried beech once that had been dried too quickly
  and was extremely unstable. Not something you'd want to use for a lute neck,
  to say the least.

  -Original Message-
  From: Craig Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:46 AM
  To: 'lutelist'
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Aging wood outdoors.

  Guy wrote:
  
  It's also common to put something on the ends of the boards (wax, 
  shellac,
  ..) to seal the end grain and help keep the end from drying more 
  quickly than middle. Otherwise, the ends of the board shrink too 
  rapidly, which tends to cause checks.

  Yes indeed. There's also a rule of thumb that it takes one year per inch of
  thickness of a given board to dry properly.

  Regards,
  Craig


  _
  Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy with Doteasy
  $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.comhttp://www.doteasy.com/



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html






--

[LUTE] Re: New Lutenist Question

[guy_and_liz Smith]

At our Dowland seminar several years ago, Pat O'Brian made that suggestion 
about some of Dowland's lute songs, which specify fretted notes instead of the 
adjacent open string. His take was that Dowland might have written it that way 
because he wanted the darker sound of the fretted note, even if it was a bit 
more difficult to play.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Anthony Hindmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Are Vidar Boye Hansenmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
LUTE-LISTmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:58 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: New Lutenist Question


  Wouldn't a small advantage for the tabulature be that a specific  
  position for obtaining a note can be made explicit?
  The tone could be different according to the way it is acheived (e.g;  
  open strings or not), or am I completely mistaken, here?
  It is late and I might be becoming a little confused.
  Anthony
  Le 14 nov. 06 =E0 19:50, Are Vidar Boye Hansen a ecrit :

   I hope Stewart will explain it himself!
  
  
   Are
  
   I'm a novice, which explains why I don't understand Mr. McCoy's  
   assertion.
   Can you explain it?
  
   On 11/14/06, Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]  
   wrote:
  
   Well, if that's the case, why use tablature? Really. Is there  
   any other
   reason?
  
   I think Stewart McCoy claimed that tabulature is an excellent way of
   notating polyphonic music for a plucked instrument.
  
   Anyway, lutenists did play from score, just think of continuo  
   playing.
   I am certain that you will find that its not difficult to play  
   from score
   if you practice a little.
  
  
   mvh
   Are
  
  
   --
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
  
  




--

[LUTE] Re: Capirola's Balletto, question 2.

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I asked that question of someone knowledgeable several years (I can't recall 
who at the moment but it might have been Frederico Marincola), and they said 
that Balletto as used in the Capirola is just a generic term for a dance, not a 
particular dance form.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Herbert Wardmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:14 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Capirola's Balletto, question 2.



  Thanks for the prompt help in finding scores for Capirola's Balletto.
  I had several versions, any one of which would have been fine.

  I assume the name Balletto is 16th century Italian for dance.

  Did Capirola have a specific dance-type in mind (like waltz,
  tango, pavan, ...), and intend the music to be actually incident to
  dances?

  Or did he instead just think the piece reminiscent of dancing in
  general, like a symphonic movement labeled minuet?



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Frei body renaissance lute

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Depends on the player and the music. Jacob Herringman did a number of his Ren 
intabulation recordings on a Warwick Frei that was well over 62cm (someone else 
may know the specifics). He doesn't use it for everything, though. I've got a 
62cm 8-course that I use for later Ren stuff (mostly English), and I wouldn't 
want to go any larger. That may in part reflect my modest abilities, but I 
suspect a lot of folks have similar preferences. Plus, for ensemble playing, 
it's often convenient to be able to tune in G (in A440 tuning). That might be 
tough with a 65 cm instrument.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ed Durbrowmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Rob Dorseymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; LuteNet 
listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:48 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Frei body renaissance lute



  On Oct 27, 2006, at 11:44 PM, Rob Dorsey wrote:

   I am currently building an 8 course lute for a customer on a Frei  
   body. I do
   not build many renaissance lutes and specialize in baroque  
   instruments but
   took this commission anyway.
  
   He specified the Frei body but also specified a 62cm mensur. Now,  
   the Frei
   is a long body, 52cm from block end to end cap, and the narrower  
   neck/body
   juncture of the 8 course makes it even longer. The problem is, of  
   course,
   that the body will not accommodate anything shorter than about 66cm  
   without
   the neck being ridiculously short. I talked him into 65cm but  
   renaissance
   players, and I'm not one, advise that anything longer than 62 is  
   untenable
   for the solo repertoire.
  
   Any ideas?

  I had a Frei of around 66cm many years ago. I tuned it in F.




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Is there a non-spruce topwood in your past/present/future lute?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If memory serves, Clive Titmuss has made some lutes with Sitka spruce tops. 
Unfortunately, that was at least a couple of years ago and I don't recall where 
I saw the discussion (maybe in the GAL journal). I haven't heard ajy of the 
instruments, so I can't say how they compare to instruments with Engleman or 
European spruce tops.
  - Original Message - 
  From: EUGENE BRAIG IVmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 6:36 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Is there a non-spruce topwood in your past/present/future 
lute?


  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, October 15, 2006 3:53 am
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Is there a non-spruce topwood in your  
past/present/future lute?

   In the US Engleman spruce, Picea engelmanii, is 
   often used.
   
   Regards,
   Craig


  Indeed.



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Sting Interview

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Having also played in costume on a few occasions, a lot depends on how you do 
it. If you simply sit up on stage and play in costume, much like you would in a 
conventional concert, I think it ends up looking a bit affected and adds little 
to the performance. Adding a bit of theatre with the costumes, as Mark notes, 
can help a lot in engaging your audience. Personally, I'd much rather perform 
in a coffee house than an auditorium anyway (Seattle has an abundance of coffee 
houses...). Not only am I more comfortable, it's probably a good bit closer to 
how Renaissance music was played at the time. That said, the two times I've 
played in a coffee house weren't in costume and went over well, so it's hardly 
a requirement.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:11 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sting Interview


  In einer eMail vom 28.09.2006 13:04:11 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 

   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Maybe they would have the last laugh, but keeping up appearences is not
   what I am interested in.
   What about your costumes???
   RT
   

  I always thought costumes were for changing appearances and not keeping them 
  up :)

  As public concerts as we know them today did not exist, I see no reason to 
  conform to any classical conventions that have appeared since then. Many of 
  these conventions work great for later music but most stifle the intimacy and 
  spontaneity of renaissance music.

  We have found our inspiration in court entertainments, which of course used 
  costumes and a host of visual effects. Using costumes renaissance gesture, 
  costumes and movement (as we all play standing) reduce the often static 
nature of 
  classical concerts. What you end up with is for the modern audience much what 
  they would expect from a rock concert. 

  It is a different approach to Sting who is interested in what he terms 
  complex music played without visual effects. But I think his approach is 
maybe more 
  coloured by 19th century music history theory than the practical musical life 
  of 16th century England. He is interested in what he would term a pure 
musical 
  experience, but I think that when you start clipping away what you think is 
  superficial you can soon end up with an empty shell. A living musical 
  experience is not a sterile hospital visit. 

  It is also clear that many people will discount us immediately because of our 
  use of costumes, but if they hear us I hope they will be convinced they are 
  the icing on the cake and not a way to hide poor quality. 

  Mark


  I

  --

  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Lute songs about food and drink

[guy_and_liz Smith]

It's a bawdy ballad about an encounter between a lad and a lass. It's an 
entertaining song (and one of my favorites) but not about drinking at all. Ale 
is just a metaphor for... well, better to just read the lyrics yourself:

  1.. There was a maid this other day,
  And she would needs go forth to play;
  And as she walked she sithd and said,
  I am afraid to die a mayd.
With that, behard a lad,
What talke this maiden had,
Whereof he was full glad,
  And did not spare
To say, faire mayd, I pray,
Whether goe you to play?
Good sir, then did she say,
  What do you care?
  For I will, without faile,
  Mayden, giue you Watkins ale;
  Watkins ale, good sir, quoth she,
  What is that I pray you tel me?

  2.. Tis sweeter farre then suger fine,
  And pleasanter than muskadine;
  And if you please, faire mayd, to stay
  A little while, with me to play,
I will giue you the same,
Watkins ale cald by name,-
Or els I were to blame,
  In truth, faire mayd.
Good sir, quoth she againe,
Yf you will take the paine,
I will it not refraine,
  Nor be dismayd.
  He took this mayden then aside,
  And led her where she was not spyde,
  And told her many a prety tale,
  And gaue her well of Watkins ale.

  3.. Good sir, quoth she, in smiling sort,
  What doe you call this prety sport?
  Or what is this you do to me?
  Tis called Watkins ale, quoth he,
Wherein, faire mayd, you may
Report another day,
When you go forth to play,
  How you did speed.
Indeed, good sir, quoth she,
It is a prety glee,
And well it pleaseth me,
  No doubt indeed.
  Thus they sported and they playd,
  This yong man and this prety mayd,
  Vnder a banke whereas they lay,
  Not long agoe this other day.

  4.. When he had done to her his will,
  They talkt, but what it shall not skill;
  At last, quoth she, sauing your tale,
  Giue me some more of Watkins ale,
Or else I will not stay,
For I must needs away,-
My mother bad me play,-
  The time is past;
Therfore, good sir, quoth she,
If you haue done with me.
Nay, soft, faire maid, quoth he,
  Againe at last
  Let vs talke a little while.
  With that the mayd began to smile,
  And saide, good sir, full well I know,
  Your ale, I see, runs very low.

  5.. This yong man then, being so blamd,
  Did blush as one being ashamde;
  He tooke her by the midle small,
  And gaue her more of Watkins ale;
And saide, faire maid, I pray,
When you goe forth to play,
Remember what I say,
  Walke not alone.
Good sir, quoth she againe,
I thanke you for your paine,
For feare of further staine,
  I will be gone.
  Farewell, mayden, then quoth he;
  Adue, good sir, againe quoth she.
  Thus they parted at last,
  Till thrice three months were gone and past.

  6.. This mayden then fell very sicke,
  Her maydenhead began to kicke,
  Her colour waxed wan and pale
  With taking much of Watkins ale.
I wish all maydens coy,
That heare this prety toy,
Wherein most women ioy,
  How they doe sport;
For surely Watkins ale,
And if it not be stale,
Will turne them to some bale,
  As hath report.
  New ale will make their bellies bowne,
  As trial by this same is knowne;
  This prouerbe hath bin taught in schools,-
  It is no iesting with edge tooles.

  7.. Thrise scarcely changed hath the moon,
  Since first this pretty tricke was done,
  Which being harde of one by chance,
  He made thereof a country dance;
And, as I heard the tale,
He cald it Watkins ale,
Which neuer will be stale,
  I doe beleeue;
This dance is now in prime,
And chiefly vsde this time,
And lately put in rime.
  Let no man greeue
  To heare this merry iesting tale,
  That which is called Watkins ale;
  It is not long since it was made,-
  The finest flower will soonest fade.

  8.. Good maydes and wiues, I pardon craue,
  And lack not the which you would haue;
  To blush it is a womans grace,
  And well becometh a maidens face,
For women will refuse
The thing that they would chuse,
Cause men should them excuse
  Of thinking ill;
Cat will after kind,
All winkers are not blind,-
Faire maydes, you know my mind,
  Say what you will.
  When you drinke ale beware the toast,
  For therein lay the danger most.
  If any heere offended be,
  Then blame the author, blame not me.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gernot Hilgermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Stewart McCoymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: Lute Netmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 8:19 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute 

[LUTE] Re: Duets

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Not sure about Fronimo, but there are .tab versions of a number of standard 
duets, including the two you mention, on Wayne's site (assuming it hasn't 
changed since the last time I checked).

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathias R=F6selmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Lutelistmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:45 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Duets


  Dear all,

  I'm in need of some well-known duets. Are there Fronimo files extant for
  Le Rossignol, Drewries Accords?

  Thanks in advance!

  Mathias

  http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroeselhttp://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel  
  http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.comhttp://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com/  
  --

  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Microphone - Amplifier

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Try some and use your own ear is exactly the advice I got from a friend who 
is a very experienced recording engineer and rock musician (he used to work for 
Mackey, among other things). He told me that the best he could do was maybe 
steer me away from some that were obviously not suitable (for a cittern, in my 
case), but beyond that, you  really have to just try them out and find one that 
suits your particular tastes.

BTW, make sure that you get one with a volume control that goes to 11:-)

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Herbert Wardmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:17 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Microphone - Amplifier


   I know this is not a musical question, but nither entirely OT.
   What system/elements would you suggest for a fairly good amplification 
   system for a lute (or any historical instrument). In another words, 
   what's reasonably best to mic, transfer (wire/transmitter), amplify, 
   c. without much degradation of the sound.

  My two cents:

  Try to get a directional mike, to minimize feedback potential.

  Also try to do an A/B test, where you listen to several
  different systems in the same room at the same time, and someone
  playing your instrument.

  In general, avoid guitar amps -- they are often not built to
  minimize distortion.

  With some many manufacturers competing for so long in vocals
  amplication, I'd guess you'd be OK if you just looked around a
  few music stores and use your own ear.  Popular musicians call
  vocal amp systems PAs.  Good speakers are heavy for their size.



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: tying gut frets

[guy_and_liz Smith]

A trick I learned from Grant Tomlinson forlarger fret sizes is to bend the 
section you that you will use to tie the knot back and forth a few times. This 
softens it up a bit and makes tying a knot much easier. It probably weakens the 
gut a bit, but there's more than enough strength left, and the softened section 
won't fall under any strings.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 12:03 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: tying gut frets


   Van: Stuart Walsh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

   Anyone got any suggestions for a really easy way of tying knots?

  start with soft cotton line.

  The knot you mentioned (van edwards first) is a simple overhand knot in
  one end, the other end is passed thru it, all is cinched tight and the end
  swelled with heat to prevent it pulling back.

  This particular knot is troublesome in larger fretgut, say 0.8mm (frets 1
  and two typically).  Fret one has its own issues, being the widest part of
  the neck, and the shortest distance of neck available to 'stretch' it.

  A pair of needle-nose plyers helps when pulling (round jaws best,
  half-round ok, prefer smooth to serated), you need an extra length of gut
  when using them; also, first grab the gut in the jaws, the wind the gut
  around the closed jaws, this not only keeps the jaws tight it also avoids
  sharp edges cutting the gut where you least need that (you will pull
  sideways).  Form the knot at a higher (narrower) place on the neck and
  work it tight, then use the taper of the neck as a wedge by slideing the
  fret towards the bridge to compress it just a little tighter.  Repeat. 
  Gradually the knot will get tighter, hopefully you will get it tight
  enough that it takes a degree of force to bring it to its proper position,
  where it just might stay.  Here is where you swell the end and trim it.

  good luck

  -- 
  Dana Emery




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Short tunes, was Re: New Heringman CD

[guy_and_liz Smith]

On Ronn MacFarlane's Scottish album, there are several pieces that are only a 
handful of bars long in the original manuscript (Rowallen or Straloch). It's 
hard to imagine that they were meant to be played literally since some would 
barely top 10 seconds as written. He's generally used those as a starting point 
and fleshed them out with variations.  IIRC, the Mel Bay book has his versions 
of at least one or two of these, but I don't recall the titles offhand. 

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Doctor Oakrootmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:19 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Short tunes, was Re: New Heringman CD


  Hmmm, 48 seconds per tune average.

  That brings up something I've wondered about - a lot of ren lute music
  seems to be very short. Did they just play lots of short pieces or was the
  practice to repeat a piece several times? Do the written scores represent
  themes which the player developed as he played?

   Jacob Heringman has a new CD out on Magnatune.com called Blame Not
   My Lute (insert joke here). A 47 minute collection of 58 Renaissance
   Lute pieces. Very solid and clear playing. Highly recommended for
   beginner and intermediate players who will likely come across these
   pieces in various collections. You can listen to all the full length
   tracks on Magnatune prior to purchase.
  
   DS
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  


  -- 
  http://DoctorOakroot.comhttp://doctoroakroot.com/ - Rough-edged songs on 
homemade GIT-tars.



--

[LUTE] Re: LSA Lute Festival 2006 in Cleveland

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've been to quite a few (although I won't be able to make this one:-(, and 
they normally have a pretty good mix of Baroque and Ren attendees and faculty 
(including some who do both). I'd guess the usual proportion is roughly 60/40 
Ren/Baroque. There should be more than enough in the way of courses to keep you 
occupied unless your interests are extremely narrow. The usual problem is 
having too much to choose from and too little time.

Guy

  - Original Message - 
  From: Rob Dorseymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: 'Sean Smith'mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
'Lutelist'mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:13 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: LSA Lute Festival 2006 in Cleveland


  All,

  It sounds like a great experience but I have a few questions. Do most
  attendees stay in the dorm? I cannot imagine Cleveland in June without
  air-conditioning. That brings a dorm room to $600 for the 6 days, add 400 in
  tuition and it's a grand not counting lunch and beers. That's a pretty
  expensive week. That begs the question, in the mind of those who have
  attended previously, is it worth it? I've got chips flying trying to get a
  13 course baroque instrument finished to take for the tasting. Will I be
  allowed to put it in? Is it mostly a renaissance festival? I see a couple of
  baroque players (Satoh, Barto) so it must have a fair and balanced baroque
  presence. Is that a good assessment?

  I've had a master class with Satoh before so I know it's most worthwhile.
  Will there be baroque folk for the private lessons?

  So many questions, so little money,
  Rob Dorsey, luthier
  Florence, KY USA
  http://RobDorsey.comhttp://robdorsey.com/

  -Original Message-
  From: Sean Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:39 PM
  To: Lutelist
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: LSA Lute Festival 2006 in Cleveland


  Sounds like a good line-up to me: got the early and late covered, the
  long-time players, the johnny-come-latelys, serious big names, great
  teachers and some seriously above-average concerts from names you've always
  wondered about.

  Then there's the other folks who show up: folks who ask good questions in
  class, folks who've tried that string set-up you were going to, folks who
  scoot over and invite you over to their table, folks w/ a 'this' lute or a
  'his' lute, folks w/ a cool duet, folks selling facsimiles, mod eds and cds,
  folks w/ edifying stories, awful jokes and dubious tuning tricks. Folks
  definitely getting the lute thing for a week.

  Sean




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I actually used something called a TotalGym 
(http://www.totalgym.com/http://www.totalgym.com/), and the exercises I did 
are peculiar to that device. This site has what looks to be a decent set of 
rotator cuff strength and stretching exercises that don't require much in the 
way of special equipment (just some light barbells): 
http://www.bodyresults.com/E2RotatorCuff.asphttp://www.bodyresults.com/E2RotatorCuff.asp.

Guy 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Stephen Arndtmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:35 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps)


  My thanks to all who responded with their stories and suggestions. In 
  particular:

  1. Eric, thank you for the book recommendation. I have ordered it and am 
  anxiously looking forward to receiving it and working with it.

  2. Sandy, I am very interested in the technique you took over from Hopkinson 
  Smith, but though I can imagine the general outlines of it, I can't picture 
  it well enough in my mind to use it in practice. A photograph would be a 
  wonderful help. Even when I use a strap, I have to use my hands and arms to 
  hold my instrument precisely where I want it, and that extra muscular 
  tension is, I think, contributing to my problem. I would love to have the 
  instrument in place without having to exert any pressure to hold it.

  3. Guy and Liz, I am also very interested in the exercises you mentioned, 
  since I would rather do therapy myself than go to someone else for it. Could 
  you describe the exercises you do or post pictures of them? I think they 
  might potentially help many players on the list.

  4. Denys, I began looking into Alexander Technique once, but didn't get very 
  far owing to lack of time. Perhaps you can answer the following questions. 
  Is it possible to learn Alexander Technique from books, without a teacher? 
  Can one use it to pinpoint and correct a particular problem? And 
  approximately how long does it take to learn it?

  5. Martin, I cannot sustain for very long the position you describe, though 
  it does work for short periods of time. In any event, I would love to hear 
  your MP3 files. Please send me one, and many thanks in advance.

  Best regards to all,

  Stephen Arndt



  - Original Message - 
  From: Eric Liefeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Stephen Arndt [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:16 PM
  Subject: Re: Body pain (was Re: [LUTE] Re: lute straps)


   And of course I mis-typed the link, try:
   http://www.triggerpointbook.comhttp://www.triggerpointbook.com/
  
   Sorry for the clutter.
  
   Eric
  
   On May 3, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Eric Liefeld wrote:
  
   Dear Stephen,
  
   I was going to reply privately, but I'll broadcast here in the
   hope this can help others.  I too suffer from a variety of pain
   issues in the neck and back, in my case likely caused by
   playing the violin for many years from childhood (in the
   modern school), and exacerbated by computer use.  I have
   had frequent severe migraines for at least 35 years.  I too
   have been through the gamut of treatments you list (plus
   a few) and I eventually resorted to just taking lots of pain
   medications... not an altogether healthy thing.
  
   In a rather desperate search for help about nine months
   ago I stumbled across a wonderful and well-written book
   (The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook) that has literally
   saved my life.  You can find it at 
http://www.trigerpointbook.comhttp://www.trigerpointbook.com/,
   and even get a discount when ordering through their site.
   I think its also widely available at the local Barnes and Noble.
  
   The author, Clair Davies, is a former piano tuner, and he
   has some insights into musician's injuries and issues.  He
   basically takes you through every muscle in the body and
   teaches you how to work on them yourself with a few simple
   tools.  This may sound strange at first, but I have been
   able to bring about *much* more improvement in my pain
   situation by working on myself than with any other method.
  
   Unlike lots of treatments that require a belief system of sorts,
   trigger points are very tangible, easy to find, and based on
   published medical literature.  Trigger points are basically
   small contractions in muscle that tend to refer pain in predictable
   patterns that are described and illustrated in the book. Once
   you can understand, isolate, and work on the muscles that
   are causing your pain, I have no doubt that you can resolve
   it quickly.  In my own case, I am almost completely off the
   pain meds and I can once again move like a human.
  
   I have also found this book particularly helpful with the
   typical repetitive strain issues encountered when playing
   instruments.
  
   Feel free to 

[LUTE] Re: lute straps (genuinely about straps and lutes)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

A lot of folks, myself included, attach their straps like that, and this is 
the first I've heard of anyone having any problems with the neck joint.

From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute straps (genuinely about straps and lutes)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 16:27:50 +0100 (BST)

i screwed one of those strap pegs into the butt end of
my oud, made a leather strap with leather thong to
attach it to the peg box and i have to say it looked
ok - comfortable too - but i just pulled it all off
again.

the weakest point on an oud - i presume it's also for
a lute - is where the neck joins the body.   both my
ouds - one cheap, the other not - started to buckle at
this point, thus causing string buzz and it occurred
to me (duh! ... duh-duh!!) that placing an over the
shoulder strap on the instrument puts tugging pressure
at both ends and probably helped to bend it back on
itself, aggravating the aforementioned buckle at the
neck/body join.

if someone warned me of this beforehand, i obviously
didn't get it.

- bill

early music charango ... http://groups.google.com/group/charango

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Another possible contributing factor to shoulder pain is strength (or lack 
thereof). The shoulder joint depends in a big way on the muscles of the 
rotator cuff to hold everything together. I had problems with shoulder pain 
several years ago (computers again ...). The orthopedist eventually 
determined that the root cause was the simple fact that years of sitting at 
a computer for many hours a day and getting most of my exercise on a bicycle 
had left my shoulder muscles too weak to properly support the joint. A few 
months carefully working with weights to strengthen those muscles largely 
eliminated the problem. Not necessarily the solution to every shoulder 
problem, but it's something that you should consider.

Guy


From: Eric Liefeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stephen Arndt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Body pain (was Re: lute straps)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 20:09:24 -0600

Dear Stephen,

I was going to reply privately, but I'll broadcast here in the
hope this can help others.  I too suffer from a variety of pain
issues in the neck and back, in my case likely caused by
playing the violin for many years from childhood (in the
modern school), and exacerbated by computer use.  I have
had frequent severe migraines for at least 35 years.  I too
have been through the gamut of treatments you list (plus
a few) and I eventually resorted to just taking lots of pain
medications... not an altogether healthy thing.

In a rather desperate search for help about nine months
ago I stumbled across a wonderful and well-written book
(The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook) that has literally
saved my life.  You can find it at http://www.trigerpointbook.com,
and even get a discount when ordering through their site.
I think its also widely available at the local Barnes and Noble.

The author, Clair Davies, is a former piano tuner, and he
has some insights into musician's injuries and issues.  He
basically takes you through every muscle in the body and
teaches you how to work on them yourself with a few simple
tools.  This may sound strange at first, but I have been
able to bring about *much* more improvement in my pain
situation by working on myself than with any other method.

Unlike lots of treatments that require a belief system of sorts,
trigger points are very tangible, easy to find, and based on
published medical literature.  Trigger points are basically
small contractions in muscle that tend to refer pain in predictable
patterns that are described and illustrated in the book. Once
you can understand, isolate, and work on the muscles that
are causing your pain, I have no doubt that you can resolve
it quickly.  In my own case, I am almost completely off the
pain meds and I can once again move like a human.

I have also found this book particularly helpful with the
typical repetitive strain issues encountered when playing
instruments.

Feel free to contact me off-line if you want more information.

Best,

Eric

ps - The knife was in my *left* shoulder blade...

On May 3, 2006, at 7:08 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote:

  Dear Lute List,
 
  A long-time reader though infrequent contributor to this list, I
  was on the
  verge of posting a related topic when Katherine initiated the
  thread on lute
  straps, a thread that I have followed with great interest.
 
  Primarily from using a computer keyboard and mouse, I had developed
  under my
  right shoulder blade a knot that felt like a knife stabbing me in
  the
  back. The problem seemed to be exacerbated by reaching around the
  lute,
  which is a rather deep-bodied instrument. From my shoulder the pain
  seemed
  to radiate all the way down my arm, inflaming the ulnar nerve and
  my wrist,
  and numbing the ring and little finger of my right hand.
 
  I made several adjustments to my computer equipment (raising the
  monitor,
  switching the mouse to my left hand, etc.) and underwent chiropractic
  treatment, acupuncture, massage, and medication therapy (muscle
  relaxers and
  pain pills). Yet, the problem was still so bad that I worried that
  I would
  have to give up the lute.
 
  Originally, I held the lute more or less in the classical guitar
  style,
  i.e., on my left thigh and using a footstool. Once my physical
  problems
  developed, I tried using a strap in the traditional manner, i.e.,
  tying it
  to the first peg, wrapping it around my shoulder, and tucking it in
  under my
  right thigh, on which I now rested the body of the lute. Doing so
  helped but
  did not really solve the problem. In desperation I drove to the
  nearest
  luthier (a maker of violins, violas, and cellos, but not of
  lutes), who
  was two and a half hours away, and had him put two strap buttons on my
  instrument, since I was afraid of doing so myself and cracking my
  instrument. I have since used both a regular, guitar-style strap,
  attached
  to the first peg and the clasp button, and the slider-strap recently
  mentioned on this list and attached to the clasp 

[LUTE] Re: Fantastic French Lute Festival

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Hardly. Come to an LSA seminar some time. You'll see quite a few folks 
playing with a strap, myself among them. The person who convinced me to try 
one was Pat O'Brian, who has more than a little credibility as a pedagogue 
as well as a performer.

Guy

From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rebecca Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fantastic French Lute Festival
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:28:16 +0100 (BST)

i think they're called strap pegs and if previous
correspondence is anything to go by they're very much
frowned on by those who re-enact early music.

i placed one on the cheapy oud i play when walking
around.

- bill

--- Rebecca Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 April 29th, 2006
 
 Dear Lutenists:
 
  I noticed in all the photographs from the
  French Lute Festival, the
 lute players were all wearing straps on their
  Lutes.  Is this the usual way
 to play a Lute?  If so what is the button
  called on the other side of the
 Lute? (I have one on my guitar but the name
  escapes me).  They all seemed to
 be tied to the peg box head on the other side,
 
 with thanks,
 
 Rebecca Banks
 Tea at Tympani Lane Records
 www.tympanilanerecords.com
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

early music charango ... http://groups.google.com/group/charango



___
Too much spam in your inbox? Yahoo! Mail gives you the best spam protection 
for FREE! http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

[LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Look can also be used as a noun, as in I gave him a dirty look. I think 
that's how he's using it here. In that case, looks is just the plural of 
look.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:52 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep



 Dear David,

 On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, LGS-Europe wrote:

  ..joyful looks excells.
  Tears kills the heart...
 
  What's with the s-es after the verbs? 'Looks' and 'tears' (noun, for 
  sure in
  the contaxt) are plural, so I would expect 'excell' and 'kill'.

 Just an uneducated guess and speculation: somewhere in my mind there are
 verb forms excelles, killes, etc. I guess I've read those words
 in our beloved facsimilies, prefaces especially. This could be some form
 of germanc languages' influence, plural of the verb? Perhaps? But I am
 sure we'll hear the true explanation soon...  :-)

 Arto



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep

[guy_and_liz Smith]

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means 
just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Lewis Carroll


- Original Message - 
From: Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep


 It was a poor imagination that could think of but one way to spell a 
 uuord.

   Sean

 guy_and_liz Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Oops. Didn't read it very carefully. I think the extra s's are just 
 archaic
 usages. English spelling wasn't very systematic back then.


 - Original Message - 
 From: guy_and_liz Smith
 To: LGS-Europe ; Arto Wikla
 Cc: Lute net
 Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:39 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep


  Look can also be used as a noun, as in I gave him a dirty look. I
  think
  that's how he's using it here. In that case, looks is just the plural 
  of
  look.
 
  Guy
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Arto Wikla
  To: LGS-Europe
  Cc: Lute net
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:52 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: I saw my lady weep
 
 
  
   Dear David,
  
   On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, LGS-Europe wrote:
  
..joyful looks excells.
Tears kills the heart...
   
What's with the s-es after the verbs? 'Looks' and 'tears' (noun, for
sure in
the contaxt) are plural, so I would expect 'excell' and 'kill'.
  
   Just an uneducated guess and speculation: somewhere in my mind there 
   are
   verb forms excelles, killes, etc. I guess I've read those words
   in our beloved facsimilies, prefaces especially. This could be some 
   form
   of germanc languages' influence, plural of the verb? Perhaps? But I am
   sure we'll hear the true explanation soon... :-)
  
   Arto
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
 
 
 




 --
 

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique - plectrum

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Gravity doesn't make much difference on a string bass (which I used to play, 
years back). The bow moves pretty much horizontally in either direction. 
OTOH, a down bow usually starts close to your hand, giving you much greater 
leverage with which to engage the string and a more robust sound. Up bow is 
typically more towards the tip, with less leverage and a distinctly lighter 
sound.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique - plectrum


 Tony Chalkley wrote:

  2) Bowed instruments have distinct up and down stroke instructions in
  the
  music - push and pull for the gamba.  This does not mean that the pull
  stroke is intrinsically weaker - in fact I was told that it should be
  as
  strong, just in case of a mix up - it just sounds different, and tends
  to
  fall on the weaker beats of the bar.  I've never known which is the
  stronger
  movement for the violin...

 Down bow, of course, since it's assisted by gravity.  It's the default
 setting for down beats.



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: 19 Course Theorbo

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Likewise, especially for the Elizabethan repertoire. Unfortunately, POD 
seems to have drifted to the dark side and started playing lutes with too 
many strings:-)


- Original Message - 
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 19 Course Theorbo


 Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
said that he thought most players didn't play the
dances with enough concern for the underlying pulse,
  
   He's been saying this for a least 20 years.
 
  And in his Italian recordings - Kapsberger et. al. - he has
  used the interpretation soft - gradually stronger - softer -
  soft to the amount that I cannot really stand... He really is
  a very good lute player - technically - but does anyone here really
  consider him as a really very good musician, a player who really
  shows us the way? Perhaps better not to answer in public... :)

 yes, I do! Sorry, Arto... ;)
 -- 
 Best,

 Mathias

 http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel
 http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com
 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: 6 course

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Also, some of us are playing 6-course *alto* lutes, which have a distinctly 
different sound (much brighter) than the darker sound you typically get most 
eight course instruments. I have a 6-course alto (by Andrei Perkhounkov) 
that I love for much of the the early-to-middle 16th century repertoire. The 
shorter string length doesn't hurt, either. I also have an 8-course 61cm 
tenor, but I mostly use that for Elizabethan music, not the earlier stuff.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6 course



 For me, it is so much in the quality of the way the six course lute
 responds, with a simpler bar pattern in the soundboard, a less 
 complicated  sound
 with more emphasis on the fundamental, less in the higher frequencies, and 
 a
 good  volume balance between all the courses, that seem on equal terms in
 volume and ability to articulate the bass, treble and all the range in 
 between.
 Using octaves down to the 4th course also helps.  I find it  much more
 straightforward to phrase the repertoire for six course ON a six  course.

 In the same way, I find it much easier to articulate the repertoire for 
 the
 11 course lute on the 11 course, rather than a 13 course.

 Kenneth Be



 In a message dated 2/18/2006 4:40:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Feb  18, 2006, at 1:15 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

  So, I'm glad that  people who have 6 course lutes are thrilled with
  their instruments.  What I don't fully understand is why the 6 course
  literature is so  much easier to play on a 6 course lute. I have an
  8 course that I  love: great sound, fits my hands well, guitarists
  look at it and are  freaked out by how many strings there are (until I
  bring out my 13  course!). My only difficulty in playing early 6
  course music is some  of the left hand stretches. But wouldn't the
  solution to that problem  be a shorter string length rather than fewer
  courses? What are the  other advantages people find from their 6
  course lutes that is missing  from their 8 course lutes (of equal
  quality)?
 
   DS




 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: back from Tehran

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I saw the Czech chamber orchestra (??the exact name is fuzzy by now) when 
they were on tour in the early seventies. They had something like 30-40 
players, and no conductor; just the concert master to start things off. They 
had a tighter cleaner ensemble than most orchestras of that size seem to be 
able to achieve *with* a conductor. The music and interpretation was pretty 
conventional, but impeccably performed.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jerzy Zak [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: back from Tehran


  On 2006-01-24, at 10:57, LGS-Europe wrote:
  ... from different countries, and frightfully former Eastern
  Europe-like 'classical' music.
 
  Dear David,
  I beg your pardon, please, but you mean by ''Eastern Europe-like
  'classical' music''?
 
  Jurek
 Well-played, frightfully.
 RT



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Surviving in Eliz. England.

[guy_and_liz Smith]

 away so long that she had become throughly American. When
  she went
  back for a family reunion in Wales--when met people who sounded
  like they
  were from a Northumberland Village to her but were really from
  Rutland.
  
 
  No new solo Terzi or solo Bachelar CD plans from anyone?
 
  (Except for David´s, hopefully this year, much awaited forthcoming
  Terzi-CD.)
 
 
  All the best
 
  Peter
 
 
 
 
 
*   *   *   *
  http://www.peteroljelund.se
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Mobile  +46 (0) 70-403 41 48
 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: guy_and_liz Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Surviving in Eliz. England.
  Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:17:21 -0800
 
  I'm sure Elizabethan England had many local dialects, just as it does
  today.
  But most countries have something that's considered the nominal
  standard
  dialect. IIRC, she was referring specifically to the accent that
  would have
  been used by by the sophisticated levels of society (the court,
  the upper
  end of the merchant class, etc.), something like BBC English is
  the nominal
  standard today.
 
  Guy
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:24 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Surviving in Eliz. England.
 
 
 
  Given the multiplicity of 'English' accents in modern england, is
  there
  any reason to suppose Elizabethan England would have had but one
  dialect?
  London had a significant immigrant population as well as
  itinerants from
  wales, scotland, ireland, various areas of france, islands off
  scotland
  more norse than scots, frisia - not to mention the midlands,
  northumberland, cornwall etc.
  --
  Dana Emery
 
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
 
 
 



 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Not necessarily. In some countries, solicitors actually practice the law:-)

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Edward Martin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Isn't soliciting against the law?

 Gary

 - Original Message - 
 From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:35 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  Yes, it had a paradoxical effect on me, as I wanted to hang out in this
  area.  Please do not worry, as I did no panhandling, nor did I discuss
  thumb placement.  But, I did solicit the nail/no nail debate.
 
  ed
 
 
 
  At 01:47 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
  Dear Ed;
  
Did hearing H. Smith's Kaspsberger cause you to loiter in the 
   area.
  Maybe the City should rethink this. I'm not sure they really want gangs
 of
  unruly lutenists hanging out downtown, panhandling for money to buy
 strings,
  harassing passersby with their thumb in, thumb out rap. Word up.
  
  Gary
  
  - Original Message -
  From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:35 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
  
  
I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.
 In
the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage
loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such 
as
using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what
 _was_
effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The
loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music. 
Once
 day
as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson
Smith's Kapsberger recording!
   
ed
   
   
   
At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:
   
Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the
 dispersal
  of
loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:
   
   
   
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202
   
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
   
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date:
 1/3/2006
   
   
 
 
 
  Edward Martin
  2817 East 2nd Street
  Duluth, Minnesota  55812
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  voice:  (218) 728-1202
 
 
 
 
 
  -- 
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 
  1/6/2006
 
 


 

[LUTE] Re: OT - shawm ensembles

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I occasionally play serpent in a loud band that includes several shawm 
players. They will often switch to recorder when we need to work through 
difficult sections so they don't tire out too quickly. Tuning is a continual 
challenge for them (as it is for serpent, but for entirely different 
reasons). Then there are the reeds...

In addition to Bob's recommendations, I'd also recommend Piffaro. They play 
a variety of Ren wind instruments, but there should be some shawm tracks 
mixed in with pipe, sackbut, crumhorn, what have you. I forget who they 
record for, but they have a number of CDs out and shouldn't be hard to find. 
To add a slight amount of lutelist relevance, the band also includes Grant 
Herreid, playing lute and early guitar.

Guy




- Original Message - 
From: Robert Clair [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT - shawm ensembles


  I remember hearing the teachers shawm
  band at Amherst early music many years ago, and I remember
  being struck with how perfectly in tune the four experts
  were.  I also remember that none of the student ensembles were
  anywheres
  close to being in tune!

 A couple of reasons:

 1.) They are just damn hard instruments to play. It hurts. This seems
 always have been the case: there are at least a couple of woodcuts
 that show very early renaissance ensembles playing three part music
 with two shawms and a slide trumpet. But there are always four
 musicians: Three shawm players - two playing and one rubbing his jaw.

 2.) Until recently many of the instruments available were basically
 junk. The original sopranos and altos were in seven fingers down D
 and G respectively (study the Praetorius woodcut). Almost all of the
 surviving originals are pitched in the neighborhood of A460. The
 mass market makers (Moeck, Korber, etc) wanted instruments that
 were in C and F at 440. (Can't trouble those recorder players too
 much). This is a difference of a minor third. By any sensible theory
 this means that your scaled copy should be almost 20% longer. They
 didn't do this - they made the instruments somewhat longer and did
 the rest by making the finger holes smaller. The result is an
 instrument that is much more unstable and unpleasant to play than a
 reasonable literal copy of the original. That some people are able to
 play them in tune is even more of a testament to their skill than you
 had previously imagined.

 As for recordings of reasonably in-tune playing:

 The Boston Shawm and Sackbut Ensemble made a tape a long time ago I
 don't know if they'd have any left.

 There is a recording of the Praetorius dances by the Ricecar Ensemble
 (Michel Piguet) that has some shawm tracks.

 I think there are also some on the more recent Phillip Picket
 recording of the same.

 Some of the Hesperian XX recordings of Spanish ensemble music have
 tracks with shawm.

 The early Hesperian XX recording of Musique de Joie has some we're
 just learning how to do this, folks tracks if you are amused by
 hearing otherwise competent professionals playing out of tune.

 Bob Clair
 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Lute instruction in Portland, OR

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Ronn MacFarlane moved to Portland recently. I don't know whether he's 
interested in taking on students or not, but he's definitely a good teacher 
(I've had several lessons from him at LSA and elsewhere). Worth checking 
out.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Steven Traut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Lute instruction in Portland, OR


 Hello all -- I'm interested in trying my hand (well, hands) at the
 lute (Renaissance 8c). Anyone know if there are any teachers in the
 Portland area? Clay Erickson used to teach and had a web site, but
 the site seems to be gone for good.

 I've been on the verge of simply buying a lute and getting one of
 those teach yourself books. But, having some experience with the
 cello, I know that would result in lots of bad habits.

 Thanks in advance,
 Steve



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo tablature

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Or get a copy of Ghostscript 
(http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/), and you can 
just print them yourself. It's free for non-commercial use and works quite well 
in my experience.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rob MacKillopmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: 'Lute net'mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:04 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo tablature


  Thanks David!

  Rob

  -Original Message-
  From: David Cassetti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: 13 November 2005 17:44
  To: Lute net
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo tablature


 Rob,
 If you're looking for PDF you can use the free net distillery to convert
  .ps
 to .pdf
 [1]http://www.babinszki.com/distiller
 Just make sure to rename the file to have a .ps (not .eps) extension
  before
 you upload it.
 P.S. thanks very much for the nice recordings.
 Best,
 David
 Rob MacKillop wrote:

  Great resource, Gordon, but how many of us have a Postscript printer?

  Rob

  -Original Message-
  From: Gordon J. Callon [[2]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 13 November 2005 16:51
  To: dc; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo tablature

  In French tablature the diapasons or bordons are written as numbers and / or
  as extra a letters with slashes separately below the ruled lines (of the
  main six courses), viz:

  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
   a   /a   //a   ///a [etc.] [AND/OR]  4  5  [etc.]

  so that a = 7th course;  /a = 8th course, ///a = 9th course, a = 10th
  course, etc.and 4 = 10th course [i.e., the number replacing the four
  slashes], etc.
  I have seen examples in original manuscripts that use both numbers and /a
  letters together, I guess depending on the space available under the main
  six courses. See, for example, Lambeth Palace Library MS 1041.

  I have a sample in PostScript format at my www site, the anonymous French
  song, with archlute or theorbo tablature, Hola, hola Charon.
  See:
  [4]http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#A

  In Italian tablature these are shown usually with numbers above the ruled
  lines (of the main six courses), viz:

7  8  9  X

  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---

  I have samples in PostScript format at my www site, two pieces by Alessandro
  Piccinini. See:
  [5]http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#P

  GJC

  On 12 Nov 2005 at 14:50, dc wrote:

  Date sent:  Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:50:43 +0100
  To: Lutelist 
[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  From:   dc [7][EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:[LUTE] Theorbo tablature



  Are there any specific sites out there devoted to theorbo tablature? I found
  quite a few for the different lutes, but none for theorbo. I was wondering
  in particular how the unfretted strings were notated.

  Thanks,

  Dennis




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  References

 1. http://www.babinszki.com/distillerhttp://www.babinszki.com/distiller
 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. 
http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#Ahttp://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#A
 5. 
http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#Phttp://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#P
 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 7. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 8. 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




--

[LUTE] Re: writing divisions

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Fredrico Marincola did an interesting course at the LSA a few years back that 
looked at the divisions in the Capirola lute book. The first problem in trying 
to analyze them is to sort the divisions out from regular moving passages. He 
had us compare several Capirola intabulations with the original polyphony, 
which makes it relatively easy to separate the divisions from ordinary passage 
work. We then organized them by the interval between the beginning and end of 
the division, to give us a convenient compendium that we could use. Those don't 
necessarily translate to the use of divisions on other types of music, 
especially dances, but it at least gives you a good idea how the composer used 
divisions with polyphony.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Vance Woodmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:31 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: writing divisions


  They have to follow the chord progression and be in the same key or mode as
  the composition they compliment.  Other than that I know of little else that
  govern them.  Divisions can be viewed as improvisational despite the fact
  that most of our exposure to them have been in written variations in pieces
  like Lachremae, or ground and treble duets.  Studying these sources will
  give you an idea of how they were used.  Most English pieces are full of
  examples of theme and ornamentation with divisions, simply disceting these
  pieces should give you some sort of idea how they were used.

  Vance Wood
  - Original Message - 
  From: Charles Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:10 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] writing divisions


   what are the 'rules' for writing divisions?
   regards
   Charles
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  




--

[LUTE] Re: limits of technology

[guy_and_liz Smith]

The fact that something is more mechanically complex doesn't necessarily mean 
it's more sophisticated. To the contrary, sometimes complex mechanics are 
really a kludge to get around the fact that you haven't been able to come up 
with a simple and truly sophisticated solution. Ptolemaic (sp?) astronomy, for 
example.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Wayne Crippsmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:20 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] limits of technology




  So - I am wondering whether a luthier in 1580 could have
  made a D-18 Martin replica or a Hauser classical guitar.
  It strikes me that they could have, if they wanted to.
  They had hide glue, and they could saw thin flat boards
  for the soundboard, so why not for the back.  I think
  they could not have made the geared tuners, and I
  think they could not have made steel strings that would
  withstand the tension of strings on a modern bluegrass 
  guitar.  And they could have worked out the more
  contemporary patterns of bracing.  Maybe some
  of the woods were not available then.  But all in all I 
  think they could have done it.

  And while we are at it, could medieval craftsmen made glued
  up instruments?  When was good glue invented?

  This is all working up to an response when someone
  says that lutes and renaissance guitars are primative.

  Wayne




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Repetitive Stress Syndrome

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've had some fairly severe mouse-related problems at times, and I used to 
switch hands every few days to keep either hand from getting over stressed (it 
helps to have a mouse that works with either hand). You get used to it pretty 
quickly. Lately it hasn't been a problem. It helps to have a well-designed 
mouse that fits your hand well. I picked out my current one by just playing 
with every mouse in the store and picking the most comfortable. In my case, it 
was a Microsoft wireless optical mouse, but everyone has different hands. It's 
hardly the only good one out there.

Another possibility is to switch from a mouse to a trackball. I find them a 
little easier on the hands. The Microsoft trackballs are OK, but I prefer 
Kensington.

I strongly recommend taking a good hard look at your work setup. A lot of RSI 
problems derive from things like the desk being too high or low.

As far as the elbow pain, I had a similar problem several years ago, and 
managed to get rid of it by using a tennis-elbow strap (any sporting goods 
store should have them). It's not a permanent solution, for that you need to 
address the underlying cause, but it's useful to for getting the problem under 
control. 

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Eric Crouchmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Lute Listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:49 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Repetitive Stress Syndrome


  Have you thought about left hand mousing on the computer? I switched  
  for similar reasons and found it very helpful. Anyone who can do lute  
  left hand fingering should have no problems learning to use a mouse  
  left handed.

  Eric Crouch

  On 2 Nov 2005, at 18:46, Craig Allen wrote:

   Lately my right arm has been giving me lots of pain, in particular  
   inside the elbow. And it's affecting my playing. I sit and  
   pracitice for half an hour and when I unwind from the instrument I  
   get this pain right inside the elbow. I suspect the general cause  
   is working on a computer all day and finally the mouse is catching  
   up with me. I'm also getting a sharp pain at the left shoulder just  
   at the base of my neck. This can be excruciating.
  
   So then, does anyone here experience similar pains and aches and  
   what are you doing about it? If you're undergoing physical therapy  
   I'd be interested to know more about what kind specifically. I've  
   also heard Pat O'Brien often has good advice for these sorts of  
   things, but as I'm not in New York maybe one of his students here  
   could expound on any help he's given them.
  
   Thank you for your replies.
  
   Regards,
   Craig
  
  
   ___
   $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
   10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
   Signup at www.doteasy.comhttp://www.doteasy.com/
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  



--

[LUTE] Re: Tension of Gut vs. Nylon

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Similar != identical...

I've seen a lot of professionals with nylon-strung instruments, and I doubt 
they would use it if it wasn't at least within shouting distance of the sound 
of gut. That said, I agree that gut sounds better. Both my lutes are strung 
with gut.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: LGS-Europemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:54 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tension of Gut vs. Nylon


   used with modern classical guitars. When strung at similar tensions, gut
   and nylon sound similar

  I beg to differ. Nylon and gut are quite different materials and sound quite
  differently on a lute or a guitar. And you don't have to be a professional,
  not even a player for that matter, to notice the different qualities in 
  sound. Nylon, of
  course, is more practical, but gut, naturally, is infinitely more
  beautiful. :-)

  David





  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Tension of Gut vs. Nylon

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've used both. You're correct: gut doesn't handle the kind of tensions used 
with modern classical guitars. When strung at similar tensions, gut and nylon 
sound similar, so most folks who use nylon string them at tensions much like 
you would use with gut. Nylon is less dense than gut and has a bit brighter 
sound, though, and wire-wound bases sound distinctly different. Nylgut (a 
high-density nylon intended to more closely approximate gut) sounds fairly 
close to actual gut at the same tension.

If you tried stringing most lutes at classical guitar tension, they'd probably 
fail at either the bridge or the neck/body joint. They are too lightly built 
for that kind of stress. There were some heavy lutes made in the seventies that 
were something of a hybrid (sometimes called galutes or lutars, I owned one, 
years back). They were lute-shaped but could handle high tension strings like a 
classical guitar . Howsomever, with high-tension strings, they sounded a lot 
like a classical guitar as well. You could string them more lightly and get a 
more lute-like sound, but you lost a lot of volume in the process. They have 
largely gone out of fashion, although you see used ones around occasionally 
(Lark in the Morning in Seattle had one for awhile).

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Vance Woodmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:46 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tension of Gut vs. Nylon


  Lutes, at least Renniasance Lutes, are very low tension, even with nylon.  I
  cannot afford Gut so I can only attest to the performance of Nylon.
  - Original Message - 
  From: jim abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:58 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Tension of Gut vs. Nylon


   I got to try an actual, real-live lute the other day at my teacher's. It
  was
   great. I was especially surprised at how light the tension was, compared
  to
   my classical guitar. Is that because of gut stringing (actually, I'm only
   assuming it was strung in gut), or are lutes simply at lower tension? Does
   one string lutes in nylon? Would that put them under the same tension as a
   classical guitar, which seems much sturdier?
  
   Jim
  
   --
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



--

[LUTE] Re: OT: Old tools

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Flint is cryptocrystalline quartz, which has a sort of a crystal structure but 
behaves a lot like glass. I hadn't heard of surgeons making tools from flint, 
but I know that they make microsurgical tools from glass, so flint is certainly 
possible.

I think the reason that you can get a shaper edge with glass or flint is that 
with metals, you have to grind the edge. The smoothness is limited by the size 
of the grinding compound. With glass or flint, you break it to get an edge, so 
there's no such limitation. The downside is that you can't control the process 
that well and once the edge is dull, you can't resharpen it. OTOH, glass/flint 
is harder than all but the hardest metals, so the edge can last longer. The 
geologist's quick and dirty technique for glass or minerals of similar hardness 
is to try to scratch it with a pocket knife. If it scratches, it's not glass.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Leonard Williamsmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Lute Listmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:32 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] OT: Old tools


  I once met a violin maker who used glass for his scrapers.  He would
  let a pane fall from vertical to flat on the floor, and insisted he was able
  to find among the pieces scrapers for any radius surface he was working.
  No one has mentioned stone tools for cutting.  In recent years some
  surgeons have used flint blades with great success.  I believe the
  microcrsytaline structure of flint provides a much finer edge (no
  serrations) than metals.  Perhaps a geologist/anthropologist can elucidate
  on this.

  Regards,
  Leonard Williams



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Antique tools.

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Probably because they make a lot more selling slick-looking but poorly made 
crap to  consumers who don't know any better... Also, there isn't really a big 
enough market for the more specialized tools to make it worth their while. 
There are some very well made modern tools, just not by the old standbys. 
Lie-Nelson planes, for instance, are probably as good as any antique. Not 
cheap, though.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Herbert Wardmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:01 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Antique tools.



  Larry Brown (on his website) says that many of his tools are
  antique, and superior to their modern counterparts.

  The man's woodworking expertise is obvious (and probably
  also not obvious).

  So I wonder how it is that Craftsman, Black  Decker, and Stanley,
  with their engineers, experience, capital, and tremendous manufacturing
  resources, do not compete effectively in this area.



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Tempo and divisions

[guy_and_liz Smith]

The galliard is a difficult dance to slow down, given that you are in the 
air for a portion of each sequence of steps. A slow galliard actually 
requires more strength and skill than a fast one, since the dancer needs to 
be a very good jumper to remain in the air long enough to stay on the beat.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Tempo and divisions


 Stewart McCoy wrote:

  It has often been observed that the addition of extra notes by
  musicians, or extra steps by dancers, has the effect of slowing
  music down over the years. The saraband started life as a fast,
  lively dance, and ended up as a very slow one.

 Wouldn't the reverse be just as likely: that slower tempo leads to more
 notes?
 There are other, more intuitive causes for dances to slow down over a
 long period.
 For example, the people who dance it get older.  Or the dance moves up
 the social ladder,
 to be danced by people in more elaborate clothing.

 HP



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Why do strings go dead?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

A guitarist acquaintance I worked with told me that when he was an 
impecunious student (a classical guitar performance major at UW) he would 
routinely clean his wound bases with alcohol. It removed a surprising amount 
of crud, and extended the usable life of the strings considerably. Not 
recommended for instruments with a shellac finish...

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Why do strings go dead?


  to wound strings, and should be removable with a soapy
  bath.  Then too is the question of whether dirt could actually

  I had a guitar friend with very sweety/acid (?) hands who cooked his bass
 strings regularly, removing the green stuff that would accumulate within 
 one
 or twe weeks. He seemed happy with the results.

 David




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: the weather

[guy_and_liz Smith]

You might not save that much. We looked into dehumidifiers when we were 
contending with the soggy hot summers in St. Louis, and discovered that they 
use almost as much energy as an air conditioner. Main advantage is that you 
can dehumidify just the room you care about, but a room air conditioner 
(window unit or whatever) is almost as good and cools the room to boot.

Here in Seattle, we've been having a heat wave too. We made it into the 
mid-eighties:-)

Guy
- Original Message - 
From: Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: the weather



 On Aug 10, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Edward Martin wrote:
  With my synthetic strung lutes, it is not as much of a factor.

 Interesting.

 Having grown up in Sacramento CA, I didn't really know what humidity
 was until I came to Japan. When my $3.5K Martin guitar got mold on
 the back, I said, that's it, I'm leaving the air conditioner on 24-7,
 despite the cost. I bought a hygrometer and moved my best instruments
 into the studio and that's where they'll stay until summer is over.
 It's an expensive solution and I really must look for a de-humidifier.

 As for sound, I'm hitting too many wrong notes to tell for sure! :-)

 cheers,


 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I play the serpent and have fooled around a little with cornetto. With both 
of those instruments, the fingering only has a casual relationship to the 
pitch. The standard fingerings (usually) do make it easier to get the 
correct note, and some fingerings can make certain notes very difficult to 
hit, but most of the work is done by your lips. It's a bit like singing; you 
have to have the correct note in your head or you are unlikely to be within 
even a step or so. It makes them a lot more difficult to play than modern 
brass, but handy when you miss a fingering since you can usually get the 
correct note out anyway. I've even heard of a cornetto player who 
demonstrates this feature by playing an ascending passage while using the 
nominal fingerings for the corresponding descending passage.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Jon Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)


 Howard,

 You have a point here, but if the point is that there is not a difference 
 in
 the difficulty of a sound on different wind instruments then you are 
 wrong.

 When I lost that best of instruments (due to age, cigareets, whuskey - and
 the wild, wild wimmen probably had nothing to do with it - but they were
 fun), lost the voice, I took to the penny whistle. (And there may be some 
 on
 the lute list, and harp lists, that wish I'd stuck to it).

 No one can accuse the penny whistle of being complex - there is no
 embouchere to produce the sound, just blow. But yet there is a 
 difference
 between instruments as to pitch shift. I have a collection of whistles, 
 some
 cheap and some expensive. As I'm sure you know the whistle is basically a
 two octave instrument (can go more with skill) that changes octaves on the
 overblow. I have whistles, of the same basic pitch, that have a subtle
 octave break, but need a contining addition of wind to continue in the 
 upper
 octave - and I have others that need a real push to jump from C to D (most
 whistles are D scale based), but then nothing additional to go to the top 
 of
 the upper D scale.

 The same must apply to trumpets and cornetti, and the horns. I've not 
 played
 them, but have to feel that the overall construction and pitching of the
 horn may not define it's particular comfortable pitch level. I believe
 Daniel is correct, although in the whistle of my experience the breath
 control is the defining factor, while in the trumpet/horn group the
 embouchere comes in.

 Best. Jon



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

Re: hot lute question

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I had that problem when I lived in the midwest. I solved it permanently by 
moving to Seattle:-)

Seriously, draping a piece of moderately heavy cloth or light leather over 
the back of the instrument helps keep the sweat off without affecting your 
own heat balance too much.

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: Wayne Cripps [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: hot lute question




 Hi folks -

  So now that it is getting hot in humid I wonder if any of
 you worry about the dampness buildup between the the
 back of your lute and the front of your belly, the place
 called the shirt?  My lute has a varnish finish and it
 can get a bit sticky with the humidity and sweat.  Do any
 of you have good (or interesting) solutions to this?  It
 has left a few permanent marks on my instrument.

  Unfortunately installing an air conditioner in the space
 where I play is not an option.

 Wayne



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

Re: LSA-West, Vancouver, July 24 - 29

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Lets try again. My mail client got a little too creative about pasting the URL. 
It should be: 
http://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htmhttp://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htm

  - Original Message - 
  From: guy_and_liz Smithmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lutemailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:06 PM
  Subject: LSA-West, Vancouver, July 24 - 29


  Just a reminder about LSA West. There's still time to sign up. We have a 
great faculty (Ray Nurse, Steven Stubbs, Pat O'Brian, and Bob Barto). We will 
have courses on a range of topics for both ren and baroque players at all 
levels of expertise plus a lutebuilding course taught by Grant Tomlinson and 
several special events. Beginners are especially encouraged to attend. See 
http://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htmhttp://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htmhttp://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htmhttp://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htm
 for details or feel free to contact me.

  Guy Smith
  --

  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

LSA-West, Vancouver, July 24 - 29

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Just a reminder about LSA West. There's still time to sign up. We have a great 
faculty (Ray Nurse, Steven Stubbs, Pat O'Brian, and Bob Barto). We will have 
courses on a range of topics for both ren and baroque players at all levels of 
expertise plus a lutebuilding course taught by Grant Tomlinson and several 
special events. Beginners are especially encouraged to attend. See 
http://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htmhttp://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/vemp.htm for 
details or feel free to contact me.

Guy Smith
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Re: symm/asymm perfect/imperfect

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Crystals are only symmetrical to a point. It's a convenient and reasonably good 
approximation, but perfect symmetry runs afoul of the second law of 
thermodynamics, leading to things like point defects and dislocations. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Thamesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: LUTELISTmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; Manolo Laguillomailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:34 AM
  Subject: Re: symm/asymm  perfect/imperfect


  b. Symmetry is one of the least interesting forms of composition. It is
  a cheap trick, and it is wise to avoid it. BTW, the nazi architects
  (Albert Speer...) used it a lot

Interesting to note, the best lutemakers of the ren. were Germans.

  Actually symmetry does not exist in nature, but something much more
  exciting: the appearance of it, without really being it

   I'm not sure, but would venture to say, symmetry exists in ice crystal,
  and crystal formations?

  Michael Thames
  www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.comhttp://www.thamesclassicalguitars.com/
  - Original Message -
  From: Manolo Laguillo [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTELIST
  lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:38 AM
  Subject: was: Stradivari lute? now: symm/asymm  perfect/imperfect


   Sorry, but I can't agree with the two ideas expressed below by Michael
   Thames:
  
   1. poor workmanship on the part of old lutemakers
  
   2. symmetry equals to perfection, therefore asymmetry = imperfection.
  
   Because:
  
   a. They had a superior craftmanship level, and could have done the lutes
   perfectly symmetrical if they would have the desire and need to do so.
   We only have to look at the perfectly spherical stone balls present in
   so many buildings of the Renaissance. The sphere is, by the way, the
   representation of absolute symmetry...
  
   b. Symmetry is one of the least interesting forms of composition. It is
   a cheap trick, and it is wise to avoid it. BTW, the nazi architects
   (Albert Speer...) used it a lot.
   Actually symmetry does not exist in nature, but something much more
   exciting: the appearance of it, without really being it.
   In the japanese aesthetic there is a word I can't remember now for this
   idea of being perfect precisely through imperfection.
  
   All this relates with something of paramount importance in the
   interpretation of early music, that we all know, and that I am going to
   express with an example: if we have a measure with 4 /\  /\ , each one
   has to be played with a  different accent, stressed differently. This is
   difficult for us because we were born in an epoch where everything is
   mechanic, and handmade objects are luxury... Remember William Morris?
  
   I will dare to recommend you a book, Michael, that you could enjoy a
   lot: Lewis Mumford, Technics and Civilization.
  
   Saludos,
  
   Manolo Laguillo
  
  
  
   Michael Thames wrote:
  
   Lundberg did not say that lute bellies weren't symmetrical, just that
  the
   
   
   lute
   
   
   as a whole doesn't have a clear center line.
   
   
   
 Without getting lundbergs book out, he says something to the
   effect that there isn't a straight line on the lute except the strings.
I guess it depends on how you look at it.  I prefer to think in
  terms
   that the lute has a center line and the neck is tilted.
From my experience with the few different lutes I've made, the
   originals are not perfectly symmetrical. For many reasons age, stress
  etc.
   poor workmanship. For this reason alone, coming across Stadivari's
  template,
   and seeing first hand that lutes were conceived from the beginning to be
   perfectly symmetrical cleared up at least for me some of the mystery.
I know many makers will copy a lute with every distortion, and
   imperfection, it seems for me that this might not be the way to do it.
I wonder if these early makers had some mind set to stop just short
  of
   perfection?
   Michael Thames
   www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
   - Original Message -
   From: Garry Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 5:54 AM
   Subject: RE: Stradivari lute?
   
   
   
   
   
   
   -Original Message-
   From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:55 AM
   To: Lute net
   Subject: Stradivari lute?
   
   
 I noticed a lute template of the belly ( 11 course French lute) made
   
   
   from
   
   
   thick paper, folded down the middle to from the centre line,
  indicating
   
   
   to
   
   
   me, that lutes were originally conceived to be symmetrically prefect,
   
   
   and do
   
   
   in fact have a clear centre line, contrary to what Lundberg says.
   
   
   [GB]
   
   Lundberg 

Re: Ed Martin injured

[guy_and_liz Smith]

That's not far from Frostbite Falls, if memory serves:-)
  - Original Message - 
  From: Greg Silvermanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Lutelistmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 4:16 PM
  Subject: Re: Ed Martin injured


  guy_and_liz Smith wrote:

  Umm, no. Duluth is well below the 49th parallel, which is the northern 
boundary of the US from central Minnesota to Washington (around 2000 miles), 
and a ways from the Canadian border even at that longitude. Seattle is actually 
further north, and is still well south of the border. That said, I visited 
Duluth a few times when I lived in Minneapolis, and it's quite a nice place.

  


  I believe Angle Inlet, MN fits the bill for highest latitute in the US.
  ttp://tinyurl.com/c7yh3

  Greg--

- Original Message - 
From: Craig Allenmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
Lutelistmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; Nancy 
Carlinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: Ed Martin injured
  
  
Nancy wrote:

Ed Martin lives in Duluth, Minnesota. For those of you not familiar with 
small cities in the American Midwest it's located on the US/Canadian 
border, several hour's drive north of Minneapolis. There are about 15 
lute 
players in the Minneapolis area but not very many where Ed lives. Duluth 
is 
famous for being the place where Bob Dylan was born.
  
If I recall it's also the highest latitude in the Lower 48.
  
Craig
  
  
___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at 
www.doteasy.comhttp://www.doteasy.com/http://www.doteasy.comhttp://wwwdoteasy.com/
  
  
  
To get on or off this list see list information at

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
  --

  



--

Re: Ed Martin injured

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Umm, no. Duluth is well below the 49th parallel, which is the northern boundary 
of the US from central Minnesota to Washington (around 2000 miles), and a ways 
from the Canadian border even at that longitude. Seattle is actually further 
north, and is still well south of the border. That said, I visited Duluth a few 
times when I lived in Minneapolis, and it's quite a nice place.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Craig Allenmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
Lutelistmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; Nancy Carlinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:11 AM
  Subject: Re: Ed Martin injured


  Nancy wrote:
  
  Ed Martin lives in Duluth, Minnesota. For those of you not familiar with 
  small cities in the American Midwest it's located on the US/Canadian 
  border, several hour's drive north of Minneapolis. There are about 15 lute 
  players in the Minneapolis area but not very many where Ed lives. Duluth is 
  famous for being the place where Bob Dylan was born.

  If I recall it's also the highest latitude in the Lower 48.

  Craig


  ___
  $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
  10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
  Signup at www.doteasy.comhttp://www.doteasy.com/



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

Re: lute outreach -tuning..

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Back in January, I accompanied a Renaissance violin player on my cittern 
on the ferry to Bainbridge Island, across the sound from Seattle (we 
were on the way to a gig in Winslow). We made $17...

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:55 PM
  Subject: Re: lute outreach -tuning..



   I know that Mike Peterson and also Ronn McFarlane regularly play lute 
in airport departure lounges while waiting for their flights.  I myself 
once took out my lute and played during a long and unexpected flight 
delay in Toronto.  I was playing through a book of English popular tunes 
and suddenly found it humorous to be playing Loth to Depart - it was a 
new spin on flight delays!
   
  Several people, including otherwise bored stewardesses and pilots, 
stopped by to see what I was playing and asked questions.  I overheard 
one captain exclaim to his co-pilot that's a lute! as they walked by!
   
  Kenneth
   
   

  -Original Message-
  From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Edward Martin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:27:00 +0300 (EEST)
  Subject: Re: lute outreach -tuning..



  Dear all

  Ed wrote:

   I have wondered if anyone had ever taken a lute out in flight  
played for 
   passengers!  Good show, Kenneth!

  Well, not in aeroplane, but a couple of times in train, 10-course and 
  theorbo. Both got good comments, and especially the theorbo aroused 
lots
  of interest...

  And of course they asked the normal questions: How many strings, what 
does
  it cost...  ;-)

  Once I had the theorbo sitting on the next seat in an aeroplane, in 
its 
  case, and they asked what it would like to eat and drink...  ;)

  Arto

  --

  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

Re: Concertizing in dry environments.

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Or Seattle...

- Original Message - 
  From: Anna Langleymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:46 AM
  Subject: Re: Concertizing in dry environments.



  
  What does one do if (s)he's scheduled to play
  but the hygrometer says 25%?  Are there any
  options besides
  
  1. cancel the concert and leave
  the lute in an airtight case
  
  2. continue the concert and risk
  losing (or loosing) an internal
  brace
  
  I've seen several places which report that
  afternoon humidity in June in Las Vegas is
  typically 11%
  
 Or, 3.  Relax, take a swim, and use this time to practice your
   diving
   skills with your lute in hand.

  Or:
  4: move to England.

  ;-)
  -- 
  Anna Langley
  Cambridge UK




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

Re: Barto at the GFA

[guy_and_liz Smith]

And a reminder, especially for those of us on the western side of the 
pond: Bob will  at the Western LSA in Vancouver B.C(third week of July), 
where he will perform a concert as well as teach courses and private 
lessons. See 
http://www.earlymusic.bc.ca/0-vemp_lute_workshop.htmhttp://www.earlymusi
c.bc.ca/0-vemp_lute_workshop.htm for details. BTW, for those of you who 
have asked, the brochures have been mailed and should be arriving 
shortly.

Guy
  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Thamesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Lute netmailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 7:21 AM
  Subject: Barto at the GFA


 For a refreshing change of subject matter.  I don't know if anyone 
  noticed Mr. Barto is officially on the roster of this years GFA. 
 
http://www.guitarfoundation.org/schedule05.asphttp://www.guitarfoundatio
n.org/schedule05.asp

 I fought very hard to get him on, they said initially there would 
be 
  no lute players this year.  through my constant persistence, and power 

  of persuasion, and threats of withholding future guitar orders, not to 

  mention Mr. Barto's exquisite playing they gave in.
 Unfortunately, the only slot left, by that time was an afternoon 
  concert, He deserves an evening slot, but what can you do?
  This is a great opportunity for the elite of the guitar world, to 
  hear something special, my hope is that in the future, this will set 
  some kind of president for future GFA's, and they will start to have 
  lutenist's on a regular basis. I think the Baroque lute is an 
excellent 
  way to break the ice.  Most guitarist thesedays, seem to relate more 
to 
  Bach, and Weiss than ren music.
Perhaps next year we can have Michel Cardin.
  Michael Thames
  www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.comhttp://www.thamesclassicalguitars.com/
  --

  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

LSA Western Seminar, 2005

[guy_and_liz Smith]

The LSA Western Seminar will again be held as part of the Vancouver =
Early Music Festival. We are still working on little details like =
faculty, but we do have a date now: the week of July 24 through 29, =
2005. Mark your calendars. (BTW, it's not definite yet, but it looks =
like we will again be able to stay in Green College). I'll keep you =
posted as things develop further. A good time will be had by all.

Guy Smith
Western LSA Seminar Coordinator (otherwise known as the person with the =
twistable arm...).
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Re: McFarlane Workshop in Durham NC

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Better barbecue though...
  - Original Message -=20
  From: Vance Woodmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  To: lute listmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:30 AM
  Subject: Re: McFarlane Workshop in Durham NC


  Note below in original post.  Subject: McFarlane Workshop in Durham NC
  This means North Carolina(USA).  Pretty enough place but not the UK =
with its
  history and architecture.

  VW
  - Original Message -=20
  From: Ron Fletcher =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:46 AM
  Subject: FW: McFarlane Workshop in Durham NC


   Can we assume this is NOT the City of Durham of County Durham, in =
the
   North East of England? (Famous for its cathedral and origins of
   Christianity in the UK).
  
   The only clue is the address running to 3000+ numbers!  We don't do =
that
   over here.  Many English place names are replicated in the USA and =
it
   would help us not to get overly excited about something that we
   eventually find involves international flights...
  
   Best Wishes
  
   Ron (UK)
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Caroline Usher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: 12 November 2004 21:59
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: McFarlane Workshop in Durham NC
  
   Noted lutenist and composer Ronn McFarlane will give a workshop and
   recital in Durham on Dec. 11 and 12.  Both will take place at 3775 =
Guess
   Road, #37.
   Workshop:  Saturday, Dec. 11, 9AM to ??? (when we fall out), Sunday, =
9AM
   to 12 noon.
   Recital:  Sunday, Dec 12, 2PM
  
   Contact Caroline Usher at [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or =
919-477-8319 for more
   information.  PLEASE RSVP; space is limited and if turnout is big =
enough
   I will need to find a bigger location.
  
   McFarlane, for his part, is a master lutenist who's seemingly =
distilled
   countless influences and yet maintained the uniqueness of his
   instrument. He played 450-year old John Dowland pieces as well as =
his
   own compositions with a casual intensity that belies his rythmic =
style.
   And anyone impressed with the dexterity required by speed rock ought =
to
   see what Mr. McFarlane does when he flashes his fingers across the
   fretboard of a stout lute. Little wonder his performance received a
   standing ovation.
   The Wall Street Journal
  
   Ronn truly has a gift for taking a student at any level whatever =
and
   drawing the best from him. And then on top of that he gave an
   unbelievable amount of information about the instrument, its
   construction, its history, the music written for it, etc. Most in =
the
   audience were guitarists, not lutenists, and even they were saying =
that
   it was the best master class they had ever attended.
   Anne Nash  - participant in the La Guitarra California Festival 2003
  
   Format of the workshop will depend on the interests of the =
participants.
   In the past, Ronn has taught private lessons in the morning and =
master
   class in the afternoon.  During private lessons, the remaining
   participants are free to play ensemble music, have instrument
   show-and-tell, or do whatever takes their fancy.  Depending on =
demand,
   Ronn can teach more lessons or discuss the lute and its technique on
   Saturday evening.  I personally own 4 different lutes and a =
Renaissance
   guitar, as well as a large library of lute facsimiles, so this is an
   opportunity for guitarists to get up close and personal with the
   instrument and its enormous repertoire.
  
   Ronn's recital will take place on Sunday, Dec. 12, at 2PM.
  
   Fees:
   Lesson:  $50
   Auditor:  $20
   Recital:  $10
  
   You can find more information about Ronn at
   http://www.ronnmcfarlane.com/http://www.ronnmcfarlane.com/ =
including several recent columns on
   technique written by Ronn for the Lute Society of America Quarterly, =
and
   samples of several original compositions.
  
   Caroline Usher
   ***
   Caroline Usher
   Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America
   Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   --
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   =
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart=
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
  
  
  




--

Re: advise (off list)

[guy_and_liz Smith]

In Seattle, you have your choice of at least half a dozen small local =
coffee roasters (not counting Starbucks, which is a separate matter...). =
 Seattle is a bit extreme, though, when it comes to coffee. I don't =
recall English coffee being that remarkable, but I certainly do have =
fond memories of traditional ales from my one trip to England.
  - Original Message -=20
  From: Stuart LeBlancmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  To: bill kilpatrickmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:35 PM
  Subject: RE: advise (off list)



  ahem -

  Let us not make the mistake of thinking that the U.S. is culturally =
monolithic.  There are certainly places in U.S. where coffee and
  gastronomic standards in general are subpar, but not everywhere.


  -Original Message-
  From: bill kilpatrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 4:11 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: advise (off list)


  anyone planning a trip to the united states should
  bring their own coffee.

  at all costs, avoid french blend.

  recuperating - bill



  =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy =
crawly... - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la
  Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura





  ___ALL-NEW =
Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.comhttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/



  To get on or off this list see list information at
  =
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart=
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



--

Re: Songs by A.Schlick?

[guy_and_liz Smith]

If memory serves, one of the early volumes of Die Tabulatur has at =
least some of the pieces from this work (I don't recall if they did the =
entire thing or not). You should be able to find it at a decent music =
library.

Guy
  - Original Message -=20
  From: Rainermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  To: Lute Netmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Songs by A.Schlick?


  Stewart McCoy wrote:

   Dear Arto,
  =20
   There is a modern edition published by Ugrino Verlag, Hamburg, in
   1957. Goodness knows if it is still in print. It has a few facsimile
   pages.
  =20
   I also have a facsimile edition published by the Zentralantiquariat
   der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik_, Leipzig, 1977. They may have
   changed their name by now. Again, I doubt whether this facsimile is
   still in print.
  =20
   I feel sure I've seen the songs somewhere else, e.g. in a Lute
   Society newsletter, but I'm afraid I can't remember. Hopefully
   someone else can.

  There is also a modern edition by Monkemeyer.

  Rainer adS




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  =
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dart=
mouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html