[Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater
Charles, Welcome to the world of 6 Meter repeaters. They can be a lot of fun. In Missouri you are a little better off frequency and duplexer wise due to your 1.7 MHz split between transmit and receive frequencies. For radios it depends if you are a GE or Motorola person. If you are a GE person, the Mastr II is the repeater of choice, followed by a Exec II. If you are a Motorola person, the Micor or MSR2000 are the repeaters of choice, followed by the Mitrek. For a duplexer, any good commercial duplexer rated at 1 MHz spacing should do the trick. Andrew LDF Heliax for feedline, and my favorite antenna is a pair of DB Products loops, if you have enough tower space. If not a single loop will work pretty good. I tend to shy away from fiberglass (Stationmaster style) antennas for use on 6 Meter repeaters. Your worst enemy will be anything rusty or loose on the tower. If you are on a busy site near other radios and man made noise, you most likely will not need nor want to use a preamp on the receiver, but if you are out in the middle of nowhere on a solar site with a good quiet solar controller a preamp may be of benefit. Good Luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Charles Rader kc5...@... wrote: I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will have to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater, duplexer, and antenna? Thanks, Charles KC5DGC
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Rich, While there have been a lot of good suggestions thrown at you, you are fighting an uphill battle without knowing the spec's that were obtained when the duplexer was re-tuned the last time or finding someone with a tracking generator or network analyzer to verify the duplexer tuning. Simple method to eliminate coax and/or antenna as possible source of your desense is to tune it up with a good VHF dummy load. I make the repeater work as good as possible running into a dummy load before I connect it to an antenna. If you discover that as others have stated and I also have found out the same results, that your duplexer may not have enough isolation, I recommend adding a 12 pass cavity between the transmitter and the duplexer as the first step. If you are still a little short on isolation, then the addition of another 12 pass cavity between the receiver and the duplexer may be necessary. I always try the cavity on the transmitter side first. For this you need a true pass cavity, one that has two connectors and no notch adjustment. Motorola, GE, and DB-Products for starters have made these 12 pass cavities since the 70's. These pass cavities can often be found used for a reasonable price. 600 KHz split repeaters can be a challenge. I personally like to see a little over 100 db of isolation, especially if you have a decent preamp added to the receiver. Kevin is dead-on about how clean tubes can be compared to solid state PA's. I can run our UHF Micor tube repeaters at 150 watts with a Angle Linear preamp on the receiver, with less isolation required from the duplexer, than the same Micor repeater with a 75 watt solid state PA requires for no desense. For example, I have a Motorola Micor 2 Meter 147.250/147.850 repeater running in my garage on my test duplexer, which is a Sinclair 6 can that has about 94 db of isolation. I have the transmitter set at 60 Watts. With no preamp, I have no desense and some headroom before any desense would occur. With the factory 12 db gain Micor preamp, I have no desense, and a little headroom before desense would occur. With a Angle Linear or ARR preamp with higher gain, I have about 5 db of desense. To eliminate the desense would require another 5 db of isolation from the duplexer, which would put it at just about 100 to 102 db of required isolation from the duplexer. Good luck and let us know how you are progressing. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, RichardK shutterbug13...@... wrote: Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?
Gary, I am in Southern Oregon and I understand exactly what you are experiencing. We have very similar problems down here with our club's repeater. I have often talked about and even done some serious looking at remodeling a set of broadcast loops and harness for 2 Meters. I know there was a southern California repeater back in the 70's that used circular polarization with excellent results. They were able to provide much better coverage in their main service area, but did loose some long distance coverage outside their main coverage area. We have had the best success by using a lower gain antenna. We have been using the Telewave broadband two loop antennas with 2 - 4 degrees of downtilt, for both our 2 Meter and 440 MHz repeaters. I have found much better close in (0-30 Miles) coverage, less muti-path, and they cost quite a bit less than a Super Stationmaster. Good Luck and keep us posted with what you find for results. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary - K7EK gary.k...@... wrote: Greetings, I am in a particularly sticky situation with one of my two meter repeaters in Lakewood, WA (Tacoma). I have generally great coverage, however there is a very annoying problem with multipath and raspy signals in a large portion of my coverage area. Since the Puget Sound area of Western Washington is very hilly and mountainous, multipath is very damaging to all forms of VHF communication.
[Repeater-Builder] 450 Mitrek to 420 MHz
I am looking for some information from those on here that have moved a 450 Mitrek radio to 420. In looking through the archives I saw the recommendation to order the receive crystal for high side injection. Any other pitfalls? What transmitter parts need to be changed for reliability or to keep the transmitter clean? Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Fs: (/\/\)otorola UHF Desktrac
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but one of the local ham groups picked up a Desktrac already tuned on the ham band to their frequency for $125 with the service manual. It does not have enough of a transmit duty cycle for their semi-busy ham system so it is sitting on the shelf. First $100 will take it off their hands, so they are hard to sell here on the West Coast, even when they are cheap. Good Luck and I hope you find a buyer for your unit. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8gpd kc8...@... wrote: Um Ok, I want this gone. Tried swapping it, and selling it so how low do i have to go before someone will bite. not that i will necessarily let it go extremely cheap, but i am just curious about how low i have to go to get it sold. also want to know the reasoning of why it is so hard to get it sold since GMRS and Ham are still wideband. i will also toss in a small cushcraft uhf ringo as well. again will swap to a rebandable p25 mobile scanner or ??? here are pic's http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sales8910018.jpg/ http://img188.imageshack.us/i/sales8910017.jpg/ http://img842.imageshack.us/i/sales8910016.jpg/ http://img683.imageshack.us/i/sales8910015.jpg/ http://img706.imageshack.us/i/sales8910021.jpg/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 3 repeater link system
In answer to your question is it possible to do this on one user frequency, the best answer that I have right now with the information supplied is maybe. I can tell you from experience that depending on how much coverage overlap there is from your three sites, doing this on one user frequency most likely will not be simple nor cheap. I think it would be easier to answer your question if we have a little more information about your system layout. Are these VHF or UHF repeaters and how far apart are they from each other. If you can give us a little more information, we can give you a better idea what you are up against. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, olan olan_...@... wrote: just want to ask the group any idea on how you would do this link the simplest and the easiest way, due to budget constraint. purely conventional voice communication. is it possible to do this using a single channel on the user end for the entire system? existing repeater system are 3 cdr 500 motorola vhf using basic rick controller. thanks in advance.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Give Away - Motorola Micor VHF/UHF Mobiles GE Low Band Mobiles
Larry, Are you looking for a 4, 8 or 12 channel radio? Do you need a set of accessories also? Standard or Systems 90? I will do some looking if you would like. I may know where there is a decent radio. Maybe we could do some trading. Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Digest Number 7357
I never saw the highly modified HT-200 of Dick's but I have heard stories of the infamous Drinkie-Talkie (as I heard it referred by) from Neil WA6KLA several times over the years. I remember that Dick's 2m repeater was great to use and listen to in the Mid 70's on my trips into the LA area. Joe - WA7JAW One toy of his that I saw only at SAROC was the hip flask he built from an intrinsically safe HT200 case (complete with collapsed Dixie cups stashed in the battery compartment). It looked like a stock radio until he popped the top cap off of the antenna and poured out the beverage.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Digest Number 7357
Hey Guys, I remember those days and still have both an HT-200 and HT-220 on 2 Meters. Can anyone tell me what happened to SAROC? When I was active in the 70's it was SAROC and Fresno that I remember most. Then when I got back into the loop SAROC was gone and I never heard the story as to why it went away. Heck I Even made a couple trips to the Reno Hamfest back in the day. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tony dinkel tonydinke...@... wrote: I remember that too Ken! I miss SAROC! And for your SoCal types.. I remember seeing Dick McKay walking around the Sahara in Vegas, talking into a Motorola mic (with just the coil cord hanging down) and listening on '94. This was during SAROC in the 70's Ken _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
Tim, I am not sure or do not remember what you have for a voter, but I have used the Doug Hall voters in a COR mode with very good results. I know there are some pretty good articles on adapting the Motorola Micor series of voters from tone to COR. This is one of the projects on my to-do list. Have all of the necessary parts, just need some time. Microwave or something keyed up 24-7 as you mentioned is the best, but don't discount using the COR method as it does work very well. The best results will be obtained using radios from the same series throughout the system. This will make it much easier to balance and equalize the audio response curve and levels. The Doug Hall voter does require discriminator audio from the receivers. We have used the Doug Hall voters with both Arcom RC-210 and Link-Comm RLC-1 external controllers with very good results. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tim - WD6AWP tisaw...@... wrote: I'm going to start working on building a link for a remote receiver. I already have a voter and I'll be using a VHF Micor receiver strip for the remote. A couple of mobiles that tune down to 420 might be good as I don't have a lot room. I'm thinking the link transmitter will be keyed 7x24 with tone signaling. However the duty cycle requirement is a problem for mobiles. A microwave system might be possible if I knew what and where to get. Wireline is probably out. I'd like to hear your ideas on how to put this together. Thanks, Tim P.S. Sorry if this post is a dup. The first one did seem to come through this morning.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
Hi Mike, No this was not one of Tommy's deals, but the guy had to have been to the Tommy Rea school of duplexer modification 101. Good to hear from you. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k7...@... wrote: Hi Joe, Sounds like a Tommy Rea deal. He used to cut the rods off on all of the Sinclair resloc UHF duplexers. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-736-9693
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Controller recommendations
Steve, Based on your request about using your 12 button DTMF mic, I would recommend the Arcom RC-210. I have a few of the Arcom RC-210's, a couple Link-Com RLC-1's and a couple of the ICS Linker IIa controllers in our system. They all work great and the programming is about as different between the units as possible. The Arcom programs great with both the RCP Software and DTMF. The Link-Com RLC-1 can be programmed via a serial connection but is pretty clunky. It programs very easy with DTMF but does require the use of the A, B, C, and D tones. The ICS Linker IIa programs very nicely with DTMF and also requires some use of the A, B, C, and D tones also. If you are using a Mtorola DTMF Microphone, some of those are able to transmit all 16 tones with the addition of a little push button switch on the side of the microphone. There is a really nice article, but I do not remember if it is on the Repeater-Builder site or the Batlabs site. Good luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Steve Jones steve.jo...@... wrote: Hello all. I'm looking at replacing an MSR2000 and homebuilt controller with a Quantar and commercially built controller. Last controller I played with was an RC96 so it's been a while. The repeater setup is pretty simple. VHF MSR2000 with a simple courtesy beep and CW id'er. Two 5 DTMF digit commands allow us to turn the repeater on and off. The controller acknowledges the commands with a simple CW R. There's a UHF link (MCX100) down to a hub repeater which allows linking to other repeaters. The VHF repeater can be linked from the local side or the UHF link side. Two 3 digit commands allow us to turn the link on or off. The link has a 5 minute inactivity timer that takes the link down if nobody is using it from the local VHF side. Two additional 5 digital DTMF commands allow us to make the link permanent and remove it. This is used during Canwarn operations. The courtesy beep changes to a boop during local activity while the link is up. During linkup, the last 3 letters of the callsign are sent on the link and the local side as an acknowledgement the link is up. That's it. Pretty simple system that has been in use about 10 years now. The only reason to change it out at this point is to add another P25 capable repeater to the area. I'd like to keep the current functionality and possibly add a Weather Alert function. I have a remote serial port available at the site for programming. Some sort of command line interface would be best. I've looked at some of the Link Communications products and I've heard good things about them. Any other recommendations? Thanks, -- Steve steve.jones at rogers.com VE3XF
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mastr lll cabinet
Jim, I would check with Larry K7LJ in Woodland, WA. I know he has several cabinets up for grabs. He usually hangs around here in the forum and posts from time to time. I am not sure if he has a Mastr III cabinet or not but he is not too awful far from you and it might be worth checking. I have a couple extra Mastr II cabinets, but have not tried to put my Mastr III in one yet. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hall k7...@... wrote: I need a 38 Mastr lll cabinet. Anyone on the West Coast has a extra one they would like to part with. Thanks, Jim K7OET
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have. Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity. I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may work. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Little WB4UIV glennmaill...@... wrote: Does anyone need INVAR rods? I salvaged some from a TV audio / video RF combiner. 73 Glenn WB4UIV
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Controller recommendations
Barry, The method that I use to accomplish this, is to build Macros that only require 12 button pads to execute them. You can string several functions together within a Macro that can then be executed with a single multi-digit command. I normally use a 4 digit command structure for calling the macros. You still need either a 16 button microphone or a serial port to build the macros. Hope this helps with the explanation of how to get from A to B. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry ate...@... wrote: Maybe the steps in making it 12 ? _ Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
Burt, I have not had a chance to measure them yet, but I am pretty sure they are the 1/4 diameter ones as they are from a fairly new Sinclair Resloc VHF 6 cavity duplexer. I will get a measurement tomorrow and report back. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Burt Lang b...@... wrote: What diameter are the rods? The older Sinclair VHF Hi cans used 5/16in diameter whereas the newer cans used 1/4 in daiameter. burkleoj wrote: Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have. Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity. Very common when the frequencies are in the high 160s I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may work. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW You can buy invar rod material from some metal suppliers but you won't like the price. It normally comes in 12ft lengths but the dealers will cut it in half in order to ship UPS. The last time I bought some (around 1990) the price was $30/lb. The dealer was Diezel (or Diesel) Metals on Long Island somewhere. I still have some left from that order. FYI Invar is an allow consisting of exactly 35.16% nickel with the remainder iron. It is magnetic and will corrode in a damp environment leaving a green rust on the surface. Burt VE2BMQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
In short, YES it did everything that we were needing it to do. After being around them for years in commercial service, I was finally able to afford one for amateur use. I highly recommend the Doug Hall voters, they just plain work. It may make your life a little nicer if the first time around you were to use radios of the same model throughout the system. This is not absolutely necessary, but in using the same radios, it makes balancing both the audio levels and the audio response curve much easier. When done properly a user can not tell which receiver is being captured by the person they are talking to. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Pointman shield1...@... wrote: Do you feel it was worth the money? In Other Words...did it do everything you expected it to do? de KM3W
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
Kevin, The last Doug Hall 4RV voter shelf I bought off of ebay came with a 4 ch radio card and a 4 ch line card. I paid $250 for it a couple years ago. It was a brand new spare that was never put in service. Hope this helps. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle spar...@... wrote: Hi Guys, I am wondering what one would pay for a single Doug Hall voter module in good working condition? Be happy to get your replies directly. Regards Kevin.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: What have I got?
Tom, We have several of these 225 watt units in operation 440 MHz. The correct PA is the 20 watt unit. It looks identical to the 75 watt chassis, just has fewer circuit boards on the inside. Yes it is overkill for this much heatsink for 20 watts output power, but one needs to remember that these radios were not only designed to, but were very capable of running key down 24/7. Before I got all excited about having the wrong PA being used as a driver, I would pull the cover off of the solid state PA unit and see what it has for parts on the inside. You may have a 75 watt unit that has been modified by either removing or bypassing the high power driver and PA boards. The 20 watt chassis will have two circuit boards on the right side of the PA chassis (the end with the input cable) and the left side of the chassis (the end with the output cable) should be empty of circuit boards and transistors. I do not have my manual handy, but most of the Micor UHF station manuals should have the part number for the 20 watt PA chassis. If the unit actually has a 75 watt PA that has been used to drive the tube, about the only damage I would expect would be to the grid circuit. The use of 75 watts of drive may have shortened the life of the tube due to over driving the input. These PA decks will move to 440 MHz with some work and retuning of the tube cavity plates on each side of the PA deck. What you are looking when tuning the PA cavity is max power out at minimum plate current. If you are not familiar with High Power transmitters, please be careful of the 1500 volt plate supply. It will knock you on your A** or worse. Make sure all of the interlocks work and you have a good way to bleed the high voltage off before getting to carried away working on the PA deck or power supply. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, TGundo 2003 tgundo2...@... wrote: Thanks for the Replies so far- I have found a little info on the unit. It appears to be a 225-250W 450-470 PURC amp. It is supposedly 20-25W in, but I have not found what PA would be the correct IPA. In the cabinet I found that the amp was bypassed, the unit was using the 75W pa as the final. I found the motorola manual numbers for this unit, so now begins the search for one. Hopefully the Tube in this puppy is still ok. If anyone has any more info on this unit PLEASE feel free to pass it along. Thanks! Tom W9SRV
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater radio needed-rig advice.....
I would look for some of the newer radios like the SM50/SM120 series or even newer CDM series of radios from Motorola. The early pc programmed Motorola radios (Spectra, Maxtrac, Radius 100..etc)draw a LOT of standby current and are not the best option for a solar site. The radios need to be current friendly unless you have a lot of battery and solar panels with power to waste. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa4moe wa4...@... wrote: I'm searching for a transceiver to put into service for a link on existing network. Have a excellent technician to set levels, and do mods as required and have proper test equipment. Q: Please advise on MotorolaSpectra, Maxtrac, Radiusothers...? Freq: 145-147 Possible -8 channels Mic Audio or TX Audio input - RCUR Audio (not affected by the volume control). - PTT - Logic signal output controlled by RX tone squelch - only i.e. CTCSS. This will be used to PTT the repeater when the link receives a signal encoded with CTCSS - like 85.4 Hz. - Good receiver specs - not easily affected by intermod or adjacent channel interferance. i.e good selectivity. - Transmitter power adjust from 5-25 + watts. Would be nice if the unit had a plug or jack on the back with easy access to the first 4 items. - 11.8 - 14.2 VDC operation remote on standby battery charged via solar. - + 5 KHz deviation. - All Solid State (no Tubes) Sorry for all the details, but maybe helps define parameters. Any advice is requested and appreciated. Moses WA4MOE Waxhaw NC
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna separation question
I would look for some of the 12 VHF pass cans. You want the true pass cavities that have two connectors. Motorola, GE, DB Products and possibly others made them. They show up surplus every so often and for a 600 KHz close spaced 2 Meter repeater they really shine. From past experience with a good preselector type receiver front end and a pair of these cavities 30 feet may be very do-able. Heliax is a must and you may have to be careful of how much preamp you may or may not be able to get away with on the receiver. Isolation is what you are after here and it can come in many different ways. Isolation in a repeater system is just like speed with a fast car, you can never have too much of it. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc0mlt kc0...@... wrote: Ok just kicking this idea around the other day and the question came up about antenna separation. I know the basic 2 meter antenna separation is 50ft. (I am thinking 60ft to be safe) But is it possible to get them closer if I place some cavities on either the receive or transmit sides. Sounds dumb from some certian points of view, but I am waiting on the arrival of a decent duplexer (could be some time out though)so in the mean time I would like to get this up and going with a split antenna system for now. I was thinking maybe a 30ft separation... Would this idea work? If so does it need to be modified from what I was thinking?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Chassis Question
John, If you run across any 406 - 420 MHz Micors or Mitreks I could use one or two of each. Thanks, Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, La Rue Communications laruec...@... wrote: Mike - Thanks for that snippet. Thats the reference I was referring to when I determined it was non frequency dependent. With the absence of further responses from the group, I will consider my answer confirmed. Thank you all for your time! *This unit came out of service from a UHF repeater. There are no channel elements but I guess it can be used for VHF stations as well with a simple board change, right?* John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn - Original Message - From: Mike Morris To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chassis Question At 11:01 AM 06/01/10, you wrote: Gentlemen - (And Ladies) I have a Micor Unified Chassis here model TCN1187A. Am I right in confirming that this Chassis is not frequency dependent? There are no channel elements in this unit so I cannot confirm what frequency is would work for. Can anyone shed some detailed light on this unit for me please? Thanks! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn Most any frequency dependent part in a Micor (actually most any Moto radio) is marked with a part number in the format of three letters and 4-digits, possibly followed with a revision code... Like TLD8272B1... The secret is the third letter. The text below is cut and pasted from http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/aaa-numbering-scheme.html Mike WA6ILQ A Under 25 MHz B 25-54 MHz (yes, the table in the buyer's guide included 10 meters and 6 meters) C 72-76 MHz (see note 1) D 144-174 MHz (see note 2) E 406-470 MHz (see note 3) F 890-960 MHz N Not frequency dependent (like an audio-squelch board, or a power supply) (see note 4) NOTES: [1]: C was limited to the 72-76 MHz USA assignment (one split) until Motorola started making land mobile equipment for the European 66-88 MHz band (which usually required two splits). Some books say that the so-called mid band is 60-99 MHz. There is no 30-50 MHz low band in Europe, when they refer to low band they are referring to 66-88 MHz. In the USA, 60-66 MHz is television channel 3, 66-72 MHz is TV channel 4, the 72-76 MHz frequencies are used as Operational Fixed / Repeater frequencies (essentially commercial point-to-point links), 76-82 MHz is TV channel 5, 82-88 MHz is TV channel 6, and 88-108 MHz is commercial FM broadcast. One rumor is that as part of the HDTV conversion in the USA the FCC and the military want to eliminate TV channels 4, 5 and 6 then reassign the 66-88 MHz range as a military band that aligns with the rest of the world (i.e. for joint operations and exercises). [2]: D was redefined downwards to 136 MHz at some point. There are high band equipment models specified as 136-174 MHz, and others that are 150-174 MHz. [3]: E was redefined downwards to 390 MHz in the early 70s and then to 360 MHz in the early 80s for certain military, government and spook equipment. It was expanded upwards to 490 MHz and later to 512 MHz as the 470-494 MHz then 494-512 MHz frequencies were allocated. A 1990s salesmans order book has the UHF band listed as going from 400 MHz to 520 MHz. There has also been some interesting equipment found on frequencies as high as 550 MHz. [4]: N is still used as a Not frequency dependent identifier even when there is some difference between wideband and narrowband equipment (like in the audio recovery circuitry in an IF / discriminator board). Most of the time a variation like that is handled in the final letter suffix (i.e. a TLNA1 might be wideband and a TLNA2 might be narrowband), but there are exceptions. The four numbers after the three letters are simply a design sequence number. One or two letters after the numbers are a version, variation or revision identifier (the term used depends on which book you read). Almost all assemblies have one letter after the sequence number (i.e. the first shippable design is dubbed version A), some have two characters, a few have three (i.e. TLNA1A).
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Heavy Duty Antenna question....
Doug, Not to take anything from the SCALA antennas, because they can make some pretty impressive antennas, but as indicated, the ultra heavy duty antennas are very spendy. They also make normal antennas that are not designed for extreme conditions. Having said that for 440 MHz I really like these Telewave antennas. Telewave does give a very nice HAM Discount also and these are UPS shippable. These are rugged antennas and will survive some pretty extreme conditions. We do make a simple ice bridge above the loops to help break up a major piece of falling ice to avoid a direct hit on the loops. http://www.telewave.com/pdf/TWDS-7033.pdf Best bang for the buck is the two loop ANT 450D3. I have one of these on our 420 linking hub repeater on a site that is typically snowed in about 6 months each year and it actually will out talk the 444 repeater on a DB Products 8 loop antenna. Another Nice thing is that these are very broad band 406-512 MHZ and you can adjust the loops to provide the best coverage pattern for your site. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, batwing411 batwing...@... wrote: Thanks for all the recommendations. Fired an email off to Scala, curious to see what they come back with. I read thru a few Scala datasheets... curious that they do not give wind loading with radial ice... and... just my .02 here... from the pictures in their catalog... those antennas sure don't look very durable to me... keep the recommendations coming - specific models would be quite helpful (especially at 440MHz) doug
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Heavy Duty Antenna question....
I would look at these Telelwave antennas. We have had very good luck with them on some pretty nasty sites here in Oregon. http://www.telewave.com/pdf/TWDS-7045.pdf 175 MPH wind rating and 150 MPH wind rating with a 1/2 of ice loading. As Fred mentioned Kathrein Scala makes a pretty stout antenna also. I would think either one of these companies could come up with a solution for you that would outlast a fiberglass antenna in your extreme conditions. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of batwing411 Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 12:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Heavy Duty Antenna question well, i tried to search, but.. alas, sorting thru 1400+ posts just isn't going to work. i need actual use facts on high altitude (11k feet), severe duty antenna selection... i've always been a stationmaster (fiberglass) antenna guy - and never had a problem... but...i've never put an antenna up at this height. i am going to need something good for 150+ MPH winds, ICE, etc. Open to ideas.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio or Duplex watts
I was thinking it should be 39 Watts. The 4 Watt HT added to the 35 Watt rating of the Duplexer. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joel Liburd v44...@... wrote: No, and no. Your repeater would be putting out about 65 - 85 % of your 4 watts, based on the type of duplexer setup. v44kai.Joel. - Original Message - From: x.tait.tech To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio or Duplex watts yeah no, i have no problem with any of that, what i did have a concern over, was my misunderstanding of the way the question was asked If I would to use 2 HT radios that are 4 watts each and a duplexer that is 35 watts to build a portable repeater, would my repeater be 4 watts or 35 watts? Marcus On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Mike Morris wa6i...@... wrote: Actually a duplexer does have a wattage - it has a power LIMIT. The small chinese duplexers use a tiny, low voltage capacitor inside each stage and the have a limit of 35-40 watts. I have a small duplexer here that has a limit of 50 watts and a large rack mount unit that has a limit of several hundred watts. Things aren't pretty when a duplexer arcs over internally. You have half a chance of repairing the ones that are bolted together. The ones that are welded together make halfway decent doorstops. Mike At 11:24 PM 05/26/10, you wrote: A Duplexer has no wattage as it is neither a Transmiter nor Reciever i am trying to understand your 35 watts point Marcus On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 6:00 PM, kf7eec michaelh...@... wrote: If I would to use 2 HT radios that are 4 watts each and a duplexer that is 35 watts to build a portable repeater, would my repeater be 4 watts or 35 watts? Thanks! Michael KF7EEC
[Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR 1600S Problems
Appreciate the information. I will dig the scope out and have a look at all three voltage rails. I have not had a chance to try the password yet. I totally agree that having a service manual will be necessary to most likely fix this thing properly. I at least have a Motorola 2600 service monitor to check the performance and calibration of the 1600S with. I have been looking for a service manual with no luck so far. Seems like 1600S information and support is pretty thin as compared to other models. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcf...@... wrote: Dont know for sure on the 1600, but for future reference the calibration password on the IFR-1900CSA is CSMATE which will have to be input from the keypad with the shift engaged. Apparently it is written in the service manual, which I don't have. With that said you should probably stay out of there without a service manual and another test set of known calibration. I'd suspect the caps getting weak in a negative voltage generator, look for a ICL-7660 or MAX1044. Or I'd try replacing the audio amplifier. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:25 PM, burkleoj joeburk...@... wrote: My IFR 1600S is giving me a couple problems. One is it appears to have some high frequency noise in the received audio, but the generated signal and audio looks and sounds clean. I am thinking maybe some caps in the power supply might be causing this problem. I have the three inch thick operators manual, but does anyone have a service manual for one of these beasts. I tried to run the calibration from the aux menu but I can not seem to find a password that the operators manual makes reference of. Any help or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW I tried Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] IFR 1600S Problems
My IFR 1600S is giving me a couple problems. One is it appears to have some high frequency noise in the received audio, but the generated signal and audio looks and sounds clean. I am thinking maybe some caps in the power supply might be causing this problem. I have the three inch thick operators manual, but does anyone have a service manual for one of these beasts. I tried to run the calibration from the aux menu but I can not seem to find a password that the operators manual makes reference of. Any help or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW I tried
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Looking For MSR2000 UHF RX and TX Boards
Eric, I don't think they are landfill material yet. I think you will find that there is many of them still in service. I know in one of the sites here locally in Southern Oregon, my Micor ham repeater is surrounded by 5 MSR2000 VHF repeaters still in commercial service. You have to remember that they were the replacement for the Micor line of radio. Most agencies and businesses in a lot of areas that had Micor repeaters did not replace them with the MSR2000 radios as Motorola had hoped. When Motorola built the Micor it was over-designed, over-built, and super reliable. Motorola sold them like hot cakes at a fireman's breakfast to just about everybody that had a need for a repeater. When the MSR2000 came out the Micor was still king of the mountain and most customers and tech's did not see the need to replace a relatively new perfectly good working repeater, simply because Motorola had a new offering. In my experiences and observations there was a fewer number of the MSR series of radios that were sold when compared to the Micor series. I have seen quite a few of MSR VHF repeaters come out of service, but have not seen any UHF MSR's at all around here. Overall in looking for some myself, I have seen more UHF MSF5000 series repeaters surplus than UHF MSR2000 repeaters. Good luck with your project. Don't give up, there has to be some of these radios out there somewhere. If you come across a gross of them somewhere I am looking for a couple myself. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Grabowski ejgrabow...@... wrote: It's hard to believe that all of these are already in the landfill, but maybe that is indeed the case. Bummer! It looked like these would have made a fun project. Oh well.
[Repeater-Builder] IDEA? Re: Micor PL encoder modification (TLN5731A)
Paul, Here is my two cents worth. I am not sure what you are using for your other equipment in your system, but we use Micor repeaters and have a combination of Motorola Maxtrac, GE MVS, and Johnson Challenger link radios. We always enable PL encode and decode with reverse burst on the repeaters and both ends of the links. No squelch crash anywhere in the system. I have to listen very closely to tell if the user is coming in on the link receiver or the local repeater that I am listening to. If you have commercial PL encoders/decoders that are capable you might want to enable reverse burst throughout your system, and give that a try first. Our repeaters are in PL access with the AND Squelch mod. We run the link radios in PL mode and strap the mic hangup button to ground. We feed the controllers COR signal only. We do not let the controllers control any part of the PL. If you have any open COR only repeaters in your system, you will still hear a squelch burst when someone is using that repeater. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, N1BUG p...@... wrote: Thanks Don. Yep, I was over-thinking the problem! Links are new to me. Somehow I was forgetting I have control over keeping the link transmitter up after I drop the PL tone, so I can eliminate squelch crashes at the receive end of the link that way. All I need to do is ground that trusty pin (P701) on the Micor encoder, and possibly tweak some timer settings in the repeater/link controller. I was also forgetting I can force messages (ID) to start some specified time after I drop the PL tone and before the transmitter drops. I may be able to control P701 directly from an output on the RLC-4 controller. Needs some research. I'm not sure I understand exactly how some of the event triggers (029-044) work (or rather exactly what triggers them) but I will ask and/or figure it out. Paul N1BUG Don Kupferschmidt wrote: There was an earlier post concerning grounding a pin on the backplane which instantly disables the PL tone on the transmitter. I've got a VHF unified chassis MICOR which is controlled by an SCOM 7K controller. I used one of the digital outputs of the controller and tied it directly to the PL disable connection on the backplane. Then, I programmed a macro which was tied to a command function to have the line go low 1 or 2 seconds just before the transmitter shuts down. I works flawlessly. I don't have the manual or the code in front of me, but if anyone is interested in this I can provide details. Obviously you would need either a controller or some type of interface to accomplish this. 73, Don, KD9PT
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Crystals information.
Eric, I do not think that will work. The crystals are cut different due to the design differences in the elements. The Mitrek/MSR2000 channel elements are a critter all their own. Some folks have had some good success re-crystaling their own elements and some have not. Good Luck. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Vincent eric...@... wrote: Hello everyone, I'm wondering if I can use crystal from a UHF Micor repeater to a MSR2000? Are they operate on the same harmonic? I know the chanel element are different, I would like to swap the crystal. Thank you for your help. 73' Eric VE7YBC / VE2VXT
[Repeater-Builder] Micor PA Transistor Torque Spec
I am pretty sure I came across the torque specification for the PA transistor mounting screws in Motorola documentation somewhere, but I can not find it now. The manuals I looked in just say to tighten securely and that leaves a lot of room for error. Am I all wet here or does anyone else remember a torque spec for the mounting screws. Thanks, Joe
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 2 Meter Repeater Duplexer . . .
Lot, The specification sheet for this duplexer shows 70 db of isolation. That may not quite be enough. I have a Q2330E which Sinclair claims 85 db of isolation. I was able to carefully tune the duplexer to obtain 91 db of isolation at 147.280/147.880. With a 75 Watt Micor repeater station and factory Motorola preamp I have no measurable desense. When I tried a ARR preamp I had 2.5 - 3 db of densense, so went to the factory Micor preamp which has a little less gain. I much prefer to sacrifice a little sensitivity to eliminate densense. I am not all that familiar with what your VXR repeater needs for isolation but I think 70 db is going to be a problem even if you run pretty low power. You could also add some additional cavities between the transmitter and receiver ports to the duplexer to increase your overall isolation. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Lot k6...@... wrote: Hi Everyone, We are setting up a project in Manila and would like to ask some help with information about a good repeater duplexer. I saw one in Ebay, (Sinclair Q2220E VHF BpBr Repeater Duplexer). Is this a good type of duplexer and would work on a typical repeater setup? We will use it on a VXR7000. The Repeater Frequency will be at 144.880 - 0.600. Any information will be very much appreciated. Thanks! Lot / k6irf
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 2 Meter Repeater Duplexer . . .
Larry, Your message came through blank. Might want to try again. Your 6 can Wacom or one of those other ones you just picked up would work much better for him if you still have one available. Joe
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Squelch crash on a MSR2000
Lots of good ideas and explanations out there on this issue. I have never heard of any complaints of this problem on our Micor repeaters with users having commercial or decent amateur equipment. What I do is use both the factory encoder and decoder and modify the station for AND squelch. I leave the station in PL all the time and only feed the controller the COR signal from the squelch gate card. I have a combination of Link-Com, Arcom, and ICS controllers in service with the Micors with no complaints of squelch crashes on decent radios. One of the worst I have found is Yaseu for producing squelch crashes when the repeater drops. My Yaseu mobile with or without PL decode turned on has a crash (and it is not all that bad) when the repeater drops. My Kenwood amateur radios work just fine. As they say..You can't fix stupid. Well the same is true with some of the amateur equipment out there ..You can't always fix a badly designed radio either. I agree with those who also think it is really time in amateur equipment made in this day and age of firmware programmable radios to provide a proper working PL/DPL circuit with reverse burst capability and provide some flexibility in being able to program different PL/DPL tones for transmit and receive. I am working on my first MSR2000 for amateur service and I was expecting the same results from it that we are seeing from the Micors. Maybe I am expecting too much, I will see how it comes out in the next couple weeks. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc7stw kc7...@... wrote: Hello again. I have a UHF MSR2000 up and running now. Most of my radios have the reverse burst in them. But just about all ham grade radios do not. Is there a way to get rid of the squelch crash from the repeater when a non commercial grade radio is used? Repeater is stock, and would like to try and keep it that way. Hoping there is maybe a jumper setting or a trick that someone might know. Single PL tone card in the repeater, card number trn073app on back, trn5073 on front. thanks
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Question about antenna seperation
James, It would be helpful to know if you are planning using cavities and or filtering to help provide the needed isolation. Also knowing what the receiver will be and what the preamp is if any will all play into what is needed to get any real world numbers to determine the required isolation. In my experience with VHF split antenna repeaters, at that power level and using some pretty good filtering, I would expect that you will need in the neighborhood of 80 to 100 feet between the top of the bottom antenna and bottom of the top antenna. This just a guess not knowing the answers to the first two questions. Sounds like a fun project. I prefer a split antenna repeater anytime over a single antenna duplexed repeater. We use 225 Watt Micor UHF repeaters for our ham stuff here on the Oregon Coast. I love the challenges of making the high power stuff work. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, James Adkins adkins.ja...@... wrote: We are considering installing a 2-meter repeater, standard 600 kHz spacing, with separate antennas for transmit and receive, looking at phasing together 2 DB-228's for RX and 2 DB-228's for TX and using a high-power transmitter, such as a Motorola Nucleus at 250-300w or other high-power transmitter. Does anyone have a formula or know what formula would need to be used to determine the amount of vertical separation needed to provide the isolation required for such a duplex operation? We are wanting separate TX and RX antennas because of plans to have the repeater on a platform located 1200' in the air, and heliax runs are not practicable. -- James Adkins, KB0NHX
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone get RSS for MT1000 to run on a Dell M70 in DOS?
Dennis, I have had problems with both the MT1000 and HT600 software on some laptops. I had to use the DOS MODE command to hard set the serial port to 9600,8,N,1 parameters to make one Dell laptop work and I never could make a couple other laptops work no matter what I tried. I have used both Dell and Gateway P1 and PII desktops with no issues and have not had to use any of the tricks that some laptops require. I tried the above combination with both a Motorola programmer and a aftermarket unit with the same results. The laptops either worked with both programmers or did not work with either programmer. Good Luck. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Wade sacramento.cycl...@... wrote: Good evening, Well the subject line asks the question.The Dell M70 is a 1.8 ghz Pentium M machine. What I've done is this: Installed DOS7.1 (the Wind98SE one) in a dual boot arrangement on its own partition. I have been able to run RSS under this DOS on a different machine. Run FIFO.com to disable the FIFO buffer on the 16550A UART Run RSS with MoSlo at various slower speeds with both methods of slowdown. Constructive suggestions welcome...Thanks! Dennis -- I've been wondering lately...Where am I going and why AM I in this hand basket?? - Dennis L. Wade KG6ZI Carmichael, CA
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater /Crossband Help
Don, I will let Scott or Kevin confirm this but I think you are correct in that often times the transmit channel element is strapped to oscillate all of the time. Nothing wrong in doing this and it is not normally a problem unless you are very close to the repeater (usually within a few feet). If you reach inside the Micor cabinet and pull out the transmit channel element the source of keying your cross band radio should go away. The quick fix is more distance (try another 10 feet) or add more shielding between the repeater and your cross band mobile if possible. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, ka9qjg1 ka9...@... wrote: Hello hope Everyone is doing well, I have ran into a little Problem and thought I would get some suggestions on how to resolve it I have a Motorola Micor 224.40 repeater built By Scott N3XCC , here on the Repeater builder group; it has worked great for over 3 Yrs. I have a Few Hams in the area who do not have 220 but the know and would like to talk to some of their friends who do , So I took My Kenwood TM-631 Duel band found a Local 2 Meter Simplex that Myself and a few others have been using for over 20 Yrs . I turned the 220 Transmit down as low as I could get it which is 2 Watts That goes into a Bird 100Watt Dummy load . The 2 Meter side I have set a 10 watts and a 3 In muffing Fan that runs while Transmitting It runs nice and Cool , Everyone likes it and it works fine Except that is has been keying up on the 2 Meter side off and on sometimes as long as 3 4 Min Unfortunately I had disabled the TOT And on this Radio you can only have a PL On one side and I need that on the 220 side . What I think is going on is that the Micor 220 has a Very small signal on the output always being transmitted. No big deal except for what I am trying to do and that will random bring up the 2 Meter Transmit. This radio has the 6 In Pigtails coming out to a SO-239 I wrapped them with Foil and Moved the Duel band radio about 10 ft away from the Repeater which is in a 4 ft Motorola case . The link is being Id When the Repeater is being used. Any thoughts will be great appreciated, The hams using this really like it that don't have 220 they can now use their 2 Meter Mobile and Ht . Thanks Don KA9QJG
[Repeater-Builder] Re: LDG voter, Hamtronics Tx and Rx, Pacific Research contoller.
Ben, If you are considering purchasing the Hamtronics REP-200 repeater, I would spend my money on a Kenwood TKR750/850 series repeater. They are about the same price, but the Kenwood is a much better built piece of equipment and has a decent built-in controller for basic operation. If you were looking to buy just the individual pieces from Hamtronics and put your own repeater chassis together, I would prefer to use just about any commercial equipment instead of those pieces. I am not sure what features you are looking for in the controller but there is a large amount of support available in the amateur community for Arcom, NHRC, CAT, ICS, and Link-Comm controllers. The Pacific Research Controller does not seem to be used much in our area but it looks like it will do most things a person would need. Good luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k9bf k...@... wrote: Hi all. I am thinking about implimenting the above products into a repeater. I would like some comments from those that have experience with any of them. Also, does anyone have any for sale? This is for a UHF machine and would use the newer Hamtronics components. Thanks and 73 Ben K9BF
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repco Voter (and modules)
Skipp, I have two of these units and one looks like it has never been in service. It is still in the bubble wrap. I have not tried Repco yet due to the reasons you mentioned. I was hoping someone on here had the info. They must have made more than two of them, so there must be a manual sitting in somebody's file cabinet somewhere. I will take a few pictures and send them your way off list if that is OK with you. They look a lot a like the Doug Hall chassis, but then a lot of the card slot chassis all look alike from the outside. Thanks for your interest. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: burkleoj joeburkleo@ wrote: Does anyone have any information or a manual on a Repco TC-10V Voter? Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW I'd love to see a couple of pictures of that voter if you can make them available. Repco in theory is still in business but you'll waste a lot of time on the phone figuring out they are not doing much in radio that we'd be interested in. So I doubt you'll get much help from what is now or remains of Repco. Regarding the neat little Repco Exciter/Transmitter and Receiver Modules... I have copies of the Service Manuals Scanned into PDF and have given them to the Repeater Builder for posting on the RB Website. Let us know if you find the Manual Joe, I would be neat to have a look at how they did that. cheers, skipp
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Question for the group
Larry, I could possibly use that to replace the one we lost in the fire last year. I need something with 3 ports for the ham stuff and will handle our 225 watt Micor and a couple more 75 watt repeaters. Do you know how close spaced the frequencies can be on the combiner that you have? See you this weekend. Thanks, Joe
[Repeater-Builder] Repco Voter
Does anyone have any information or a manual on a Repco TC-10V Voter? Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Connect Controller to EM Interface
Jeff, Mike , Duane, Thanks for all of the information. I have got some good reading for a while. In answer to Jeff's question, let's keep this simple for step one. For this first link, I will be using Grainger radios and Grainger 6 channel Mux's for our own amateur microwave system. Since it is our own system, amateur radio will be the primary users for a change. Channel one will be connected to Arcom RC-210 controllers on both ends connected to Micor UHF Repeaters and Motorola half duplex link radios connecting to other sites. The second channel will be connected to Link-Com DSP-404 new series controllers with Kenwood UHF repeaters connected to them. Channel three may be the most interesting to make work as I am hoping to ship AX.25 packet and WL2K traffic between sites to a internet gateway at one end. One of the goals here is to get multiple amateur groups playing well together for the betterment of the hobby. Each of the controllers and radios connected to the three channels listed above belongs to separate amateur groups that have equipment on both sites. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jeff DePolo j...@... wrote: It depends on what kind of EM interface it is. There are several (5, IIRC) physical EM signalling/voltage types. Depending on which one it is, it might be as simple as wiring COR and PTT directly to the E and M leads, or, if the interface only will work with -48 VDC battery voltage levels, you'll need to add additional interfacing circuitry (relays, optos, transistors, whatever). What kind of equipment are you interfacing (both EM trunk side as well as radios)?
[Repeater-Builder] Connect Controller to EM Interface
Hello All, Has anyone connected a repeater controller such as a Arcom RC-210 or a Link-Comm RLC Series to an EM interface to link two or more sites together? I am looking for ideas and any pit falls that you may have had in the setup and configuration. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer vs Split Level Antennas
I take care of several repeaters both commercial and amateur. I would choose a two antenna system any day over a single antenna using a duplexer. Of the 7 ham repeaters that I assist with, only 2 use a single antenna and duplexer, and this is due to tower space limitations. My favorite way to do this is anywhere from 50 to 70 feet or more vertical separation, a 8 to 12 pass can on both transmit and receive, an Angle Linear preamp on the receiver if the noise floor of the site allows the overhead, and an isolator on the transmitter if there are any other nearby transmitters. Putting the receiver on the top antenna is the preferred method. I have had to receive on the lower antenna on one of our sites due to our top antenna being close to a FM transmitter with 80 KW ERP. Due to the surrounding terrain I have not noticed any change in coverage in swapping the receiver to the lower antenna on this site, but the receiver is much happier being further away from the high level of RF. I was involved with the first ham repeater our club installed in 1972, it was then and still is today a two antenna system. Can not knock 35+ years of good performance. Good Luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wb0goa aero...@... wrote: Have chance to install a DB 224 at 450' and another one anywhere below it. Using LDF6 on both runs. RF solid state 110 watts out. Wanting to know the pros or cons of running both antenna close together for more height with duplexer or spacing antennas for isolation without duplexer?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola Quantar 2M UHF Repeater Ordering Questions
Larry, You know how much I love Motorola and especially the Micor radio series. But... I think if I were in your position and it was OK with the site owners, I would look real seriously at the Mastr III units. Very nice equipment and still factory supported. These are showing up for under $1000 on the open market. Just my .02 cents worth. Joe - WA7JAW PS. I would not be surprised if the MTR2000 units with the optional front end filter would not work very well for you also for all 4 boxes. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, larryjspamme...@... lar...@... wrote: Our site owner wants us to upgrade our old Motorola MICOR 2-Meter and UHF ham Repeaters to something much newer. We're looking at replacing them with something like new Motorola Quantar repeaters, which will also save us some floor space - we should be able to mount all of them in one open rack. The people paying for these want to make sure they have any future needed features like P25 capability, etc. We need a 2-Meter Repeater, two - UHF (440-450 MHz range) Repeaters, and one - link (420-430 MHz range) station. The 2-Meter and 440 Repeaters don't need duplexers, since they'll be on some transmit combiner/receive multicoupler systems. The 420 MHz unit needs to be full duplex, and it will be using a duplexer feeding its own dedicated link yagi antenna. Maybe a Quantar isn't necessary for the 420 MHz link repeater - an MTR-2000 (or MTR-3000) would be sufficient. Has anyone here on the list put together a similar order, and might have all of the necessary model numbers, option numbers, etc? I've looked at some of the on-line brochures, but it would be nice to verify with someone who has been through this excercise already. Thanks, LJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: M9839 Mixer FET Replacement
Eric, Thanks so much, that is the part number I needed. Got some coming my way from Motorola Parts. I just did not have enough information or a good enough source to be able to cross the number over. I really appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share all of the information that you have at your disposal with the rest of us. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Joe, How about Motorola Parts? The exact replacement for the M9839 is still available as part # 4811043C12 (AKA 48R00869839), at about $ 1.50 each. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
[Repeater-Builder] M9839 Mixer FET Replacement
Does anyone have a source for a replacement for the 48-869389 mixer fet in the UHF Micor and MSR2000 series radios? Motorola has a couple different part numbers for this device but both appear as they are NLA. Thanks, Joe
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF 5000 Army MARS repeater, Portland, OR
Just out of curiosity, have you tried the transmitter direct into a dummy load? If so are the results the same? One more question, Is the radio programmed for tone or carrier access? Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Hobie hobie...@... wrote: I have just set up an MSF5000 125W repeater. The duplexers are tuned, the unit is tuned and programmed and it works kind of...When you open it with a carrier it puts out full power, as soon as you talk (local or remote)the PA cuts out. Drops from 80 watts to 4 watts. You can hold the PTT a long time: no drop. Any noise into the mic, it drops. Here or a mile away, it's the same. Checked RSS, etc. VHF Mars freq. with 2.1MHz split. Deviation? EEpots? Please help. Thanks. PS Also tried with separate antennas on each pair of duplexerssame.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need Help - Setting up New Repeater Station!
Karan, Joe, WA7JAW here in Southern Oregon. I have had some experience using two Yaesu mobiles and would do that only as a last resort. A repeater group in my area had 3 sites that they had used a pair of Yaesu two meter mobiles and a mobile amplifier for repeaters. They lasted a few years and were pretty marginal and required multiple amplifier replacements. Only one site is still working. I replaced one with a Motorola Micor repeater and the second one with a GE Mastr II repeater. I am not sure if you can get Motorola radios over there, but a couple of their mobiles can and do make a acceptable light duty repeater. None of these repeaters made out of mobiles will have any real duty cycle, like a factory made repeater will have. Turning the power down and adding a factory repeater power amplifier is the most reliable, but when you get done purchasing all the parts, you are not that far off from a real repeater, which you typically only have to buy once. The two mobile solution sometimes ends up costing more over their lifetime, than say a Kenwood TKR would. As people often say quality only hurts once. When you buy it. I would recommend the Kenwood over the Vertex, but either unit will give you good performance. Just make sure you order the correct model for two meters. I would not even consider the Icom factory repeater as I have had bad experiences with several models of the Icom units. I prefer the Arcom RC-210 repeater controllers. Ken at Arcom provides very good support and can also hook you up with a complete package with a new Kenwood TKR repeater and RC-210 controller all wired up and ready to go. Duplexer sounds like it should work fine as long as it has at least 90 db isolation at 600 KHz separation. Make sure your feedline and all jumpers are good quality double shielded cable, or use heliax for best performance. Stay away from the cables with a foil type shield as they are a very good source of noise and desense in repeaters. Good luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Karan Bakshi vu2...@... wrote: Hi All Need help! I am new to this group, I am a Ham Radio Operator call sign VU2YEP, from New Delhi, INDIA. We are planning to open up a repeater club. Most likely it will be a VHF repeater. We use 144-146Mhz as our 2 meters band. We plan to put up a repeater which support 50 watts TX, we will install 6 cavity duplexer supporting .600khz and triple stack vertical antenna, power supply, battery and repeater controller etc... Currently need suggestions on the below mentioned two parts separately around the repeater selection - PART I - Q1. - Should we go with two separate base stations ( two VHF mobile radios from Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu) one for RX and one for TX with a repeater controller and a duplexer ? Q2. - Any specific models of VHF base mobiles, which are good from a repeater building perspective.. kinda tried and tested ones..having good selectivity and decent sensitivity too ? PART - II If, in case we go for a commercial repeater, then i.e from Kenwood, Yaesu or Icom, which one would this group would suggest from overall performance perspective ? I am specifically looking for a feedback around the following models - Kenwood TKR -750, Yaesu VXR 7000 and Icom FRG 5000 repeater systems, which one is the best from durability ( overall maintenance, Signal quality, TX for long) and overall features perspective ? Waiting for your kind response from this group, all views are welcomes, so please be open to give your opinion! 73s Karan, VU2YEP
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 406-420 MHz Radios
Ted, Thanks for the offer. I am going to have to pass on the Mostar. I have been trying to keep as much of the equipment between sites the same as possible. We are pretty well familiar with the Micor and Mitrek series of radios and I think we want to stick with those if at all possible. I may be needing some more reeds and channel elements though, so I will keep you in mind for those. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ted Bleiman K9MDM - MDM Radio k9...@... wrote: joe i have a mostar 406-430 if that'll do you any good works with mike (I'm pretty sure) $50 + post (it'll ship priority) mdm ted
[Repeater-Builder] 406-420 MHz Radios
I am on the lookout for a couple Micor stations and Mitrek mobiles on the 406-420 UHF split. If anybody has some they are willing to part with, please contact me off list. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Rugged 420 Omni
Thanks a lot. I will check those out. Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hudson w6...@... wrote: After going through the research, the best money I ever spent was on the Spirit 6 dB fiberglass end fed antennas. I have posted pictures of this antenna in its rugged icy environment in the photos over a year ago. I use the Heavy Duty model exclusively throughout our network of repeaters on 440 and 420 omni hubs. I use the radome encased Kathreine 10 dB yagis for directional 420 links. When you buy quality, it only hurts once. Here's a link to the three pictures posted on this Yahoo Group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/photos/album/332855180/pic/li st Bill Hudson - W6CBS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yahoo Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:20 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Rugged 420 Omni Bluewave ! Jeff -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of burkleoj Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Rugged 420 Omni I have a need for a 420/425 MHz 6 db or more gain omni antenna for a hub linking site. The site is covered in ice and snow for 6-7 months a year and accessible only by snow cat during those times. Anyone have anything lying around they would like to sell? Whats everyone's favorite antenna for this purpose? Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Rugged 420 Omni
I have a need for a 420/425 MHz 6 db or more gain omni antenna for a hub linking site. The site is covered in ice and snow for 6-7 months a year and accessible only by snow cat during those times. Anyone have anything lying around they would like to sell? Whats everyone's favorite antenna for this purpose? Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek/MSR200 preamp needed
Wayne, I have had much better luck with Angle Linear preamps than the Mitrek/MSR2000 units. Chip does offer a Amateur Discount also. If you absolutely have to have a factory preamp, I will look through my MSR2000/Mitrek VHF units and see if I have one. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Wayne wa5...@... wrote: I am in need of a HLD4051A or HLD4052A receiver preamp out of a Mitrek or MSR2000. This is the plug in preamp that goes in the helical resonator. This is for vhf 146.xx. If anyone has one or two let me know how much you want. Thanks Wayne
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
Mike, My personal preference is Andrew FSJ1-50 1/4 superflex. To save on connectors you can use silver/teflon PL-259 or the new style silver N connectors that assemble like a PL-259 with a silver UG-176 reducer on this cable. Just drill a 1/8 hole through the reducer to solder to the copper jacket. Assemble the rest of the connector as normal. I have had very good results on both VHF and UHF. Often times I cna pick up a few DB extra isolation which really helps with desense on VHF where we only have 600 KHz of spacing and need all the help we can get. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8fwd kc8...@... wrote: Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna question
John, You may want to look into Morad Antennas. They make a 10db 2 Meter antenna that works very well. From www.morad.com VHF-146 10dB High performance 2 meter VHF 10dB gain @ 146 MHz #9114 $593.00 I have had a pair of them up on the Oregon Coast for 20 years with top support and they are still working great. They are 20+ feet in length just like a StationMaster. They were designed for the fishing boats on the Bering sea where ice and wind is almost an everyday event. If you have a good marine dealer in the area the price might be a little less that the advertised list price. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, W3ML w...@... wrote: That is the conclusion that I have come to as everybody has said that GE Mastr II should not be bad. Thanks and 73 John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Kaufman matthew@ wrote: Agreed. This is a classic sign of an antenna that's gone bad, and unless you've got a good isolator with sufficient load you're probably doing bad things to your transmitter... not to mention all the noise you're likely generating for other site users when you're transmitting. Needs to be replaced ASAP. Matthew Kaufman Chuck Kelsey wrote: No, this is VERY typical. The antenna is bad. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: W3ML w3ml@ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna question It still wobbles and I believe there is something wrong inside the fiber-glassed section and that is what is causing some or all the trouble with noise on incoming signals. It is really funny that when the transmitter transmits the controller messages it is perfectly clear and readable, no matter what power level we are at. But, let a user come in we have the repeater set at over 10 watts out of repeater and the noise is horrible. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
Mike and Mike, I was the one who had one of the original invitations from Neil to come over and I asked Neil if Chris was welcome to join me. I just looked through the 30D manual set and there was no mention of PL Tones. But if anybody needs Dynamotor information, that I can help with. I am off to look through the 80D manuals now. Hopefully I find something there. I should of grabbed the manual on the first generation of UHF community repeaters that Motorola built. Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k7...@... wrote: Hi Joe, I was not sure who all went over and got all his stuff. I know Chris went over and got a bunch of hardware but If I know Chris he would never take Motorola manuals unless there was GE manuals. Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of burkleoj Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? Mike and Mike, I have a Motorola twin coffin 30D set of manuals out of Neil's collection. I will have a look tomorrow and see what I can find out for you as to what is listed for PL Tones. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , k7pfj@ wrote: Hi Mike, I would say Neil Mckie WA6KLA should help you out with any OLD Motorola manual that they have ever printed since 1948. But he has been locked up for several years and all of his stuff he gave away. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
Mike and Mike, I have a Motorola twin coffin 30D set of manuals out of Neil's collection. I will have a look tomorrow and see what I can find out for you as to what is listed for PL Tones. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k7...@... wrote: Hi Mike, I would say Neil Mckie WA6KLA should help you out with any OLD Motorola manual that they have ever printed since 1948. But he has been locked up for several years and all of his stuff he gave away. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
