Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:37:06 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think that's a major difference conceptually, as there's a
constant-time
conversion between the two
YKY,
There is not really a fundamental difference here as I understand it--
it is convenient to think of the KB as a hypergraph, and this way of
thinking of it does suggest some interesting implementation decisions
that I wish I knew more about (ie opencog uses an exotic type of
database), but
I guess I'll try #3 and see what happens. Recently, I've decided to
use Lisp as the procedural language, so that makes my approach even
more similar to OCP's. One remaining big difference is that my KB is
sentential but OCP's is graphical. Maybe we should spend some time
discussing the
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think that's a major difference conceptually, as there's a
constant-time
conversion between the two representations.
In my approach (which is not even implemented yet) the KB contains
rules that are used to
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OpenCog has VariableNodes in the AtomTable, which are used to represent
variables in the sense of FOL ...
I'm still unclear as to how OC performs inference with variables,
unification, etc. Maybe you can explain that
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 3:37 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are other differences with OCP, as you know I plan to use PZB
logic, and I've written part of a Lisp prototype. I'm not sure what's
the best way to opensource it -- integrating with OCP, or as a
separate
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:33 PM, Russell Wallace
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was trying to find a way so we can collaborate on one project, but
people don't seem to like the virtual credit idea.
No, no we don't :-)
Why not?
---
agi
Archives:
As has been said previously, there have been AI projects in the past
which tried this credits or shares route which turned out to be very
unsuccessful. The problem with issuing credits is that, rightly or
wrongly, an expectation of short term financial reward is built up in
the minds of some
YKY...
About your proposed credits system ...
One comment I'd make is: it's not easy to estimate the pragmatic workability
of a hypothetical way of organizing peoples' efforts, via abstract logical
and economic considerations. Psychology and culture play into the matter,
in
complex ways.
This
2008/10/10 YKY (Yan King Yin) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:33 PM, Russell Wallace
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was trying to find a way so we can collaborate on one project, but
people don't seem to like the virtual credit idea.
No, no we don't :-)
Why not?
As has been
Hi Ben,
I wonder if you've read Bohm's Thought as a System, or if you've been
influenced by Niklas Luhmann on any level.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is a sense in which social groups are mindplexes: they have
mind-ness on the collective level, as
Bohm: Yes ... a great book, though at the time I read it, I'd already
encountered most of the same ideas elsewhere...
Luhmann: nope, never encountered his work...
ben
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Terren Suydam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Ben,
I wonder if you've read Bohm's Thought as
be
interested in your brief reflections on it.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 10:43 AM
Bohm: Yes ... a great book
Terren:autopoieisis. I wonder what your thoughts are about it?
Does anyone have any idea how to translate that biological principle into
building a machine, or software? Do you or anyone else have any idea what it
might entail? The only thing I can think of that comes anywhere close is the
or beyond.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
Terren:autopoieisis. I wonder what your thoughts
intelligence or beyond.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 11
]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 10:43 AM
Bohm: Yes ... a great book, though at the time I read it, I'd already
encountered most of the same ideas elsewhere...
Luhmann: nope, never encountered his work...
ben
. If it works,
and it is able to reproduce itself, then the pattern becomes persistent.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12
or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 10:43 AM
Bohm: Yes ... a great book, though at the time I read it, I'd already
encountered most of the same ideas elsewhere...
Luhmann: nope, never encountered his work...
ben
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:26
arrive at
something with human-level intelligence or beyond.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Russell Wallace
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A good idea and a euro will get you a cup of coffee. Whoever said you
need to protect ideas is just shilly-shallying you. Ideas have no
market value; anyone capable of taking them up, already has more ideas
of his own
Russell : Whoever said you
need to protect ideas is just shilly-shallying you. Ideas have no
market value; anyone capable of taking them up, already has more ideas
of his own than time to implement them.
In AGI, that certainly seems to be true - ideas are crucial, but require
such a massive
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:47 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But how do you explain the fact that many of today's top financially
successful companies rely on closed-source software? A recent example
is Google's search engine, which remains closed source.
Nobody paid Google for
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Russell Wallace
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But whichever route you pick, follow it with conviction. If you flag
your project open source and then start talking about protecting
your ideas and trying to measure the exact value of everybody's
contributions so
A good idea and a euro will get you a cup of coffee. Whoever said you
need to protect ideas is just shilly-shallying you. Ideas have no
market value; anyone capable of taking them up, already has more ideas
of his own than time to implement them. Don't take my word for it,
look around you; do you
Mike,
The chance of someone stealing your idea is v. remote.
There are many companies that made fortune with stolen ideas (e.g. Microsoft).
But of course they are primarily after proven ideas.
YKY,
If practically doable, I would recommend closed source, utilizing (
possibly developing) as
So the key question is whether there will be enough opensource
contributors with innovative ideas and expertise in AGI...
YKY
It's a gamble ... and I don't yet know if my gamble with OpenCog will pay
off!!
A problem is that to recruit a lot of quality volunteers, you'll first need
to
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