Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

To expand and clarify on Mark's excellent points: Mark Thomas wrote earlier: > On 2016-09-06 17:06 (+0100), Simos Xenitellis > wrote: > > Just responding to these specific bits with my Apache Brand > Management Committee member hat on. > >> which

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Le 07/09/2016 à 16:55, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit : 3. I suspect that discussions about available software alternatives would arise on users@oo.a.o and particularly on the Community Forums. That would happen naturally without requiring the project to take any positions or provide any kind of

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

ot;. That ID is also used in the following websites, http://pub-db.com/google-analytics/UA-19309218.html Simos > - Dennis > >> -Original Message- >> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:ma...@apache.org] >> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 02:08 >> To: dev@openoffice.apa

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

t: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > On 2016-09-06 17:06 (+0100), Simos Xenitellis > <simos.li...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > Just responding to these specific bits with my Apache Brand Management > Committee member hat on. > > > which

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Fine then. I'll drop it. It did deserve to be brought up though. > On Sep 7, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > > On 06/09/2016 Jim Jagielski wrote: >> What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various >> places, as well as contributing to the 2

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > Here is what a careful retirement of Apache OpenOffice could look like. > > A. PERSPECTIVE > B. WHAT RETIREMENT COULD LOOK LIKE > 1. Code Base > 2.

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 2016-09-06 17:06 (+0100), Simos Xenitellis wrote: Just responding to these specific bits with my Apache Brand Management Committee member hat on. > which claims that the Apache Foundation has the Apache OpenOffice™ and > OpenOffice.org®. > However, my search

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Am 09/07/2016 11:35 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: On 06/09/2016 Jim Jagielski wrote: What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to have done.

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 06/09/2016 Jim Jagielski wrote: What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to have done. There is no relation whatsoever between Rob Weir

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Am 09/07/2016 10:53 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: Dave Fisher wrote: I think that the appropriate place to keep this plan in whatever state it will be kept is on one of our wikis. Not without an appropriate disclaimer saying that this is not a determined course of action, but merely a

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hello imacat, > From: imacat [mailto:ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw] > I see. Thanks, Jörg, Andrea. > > I'm working on two OpenOffice tools and may announce their beta > release in one or two weeks. I was stunned by the news, but > am happy to > see it is quite different from what the

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Dave Fisher wrote: I think that the appropriate place to keep this plan in whatever state it will be kept is on one of our wikis. Not without an appropriate disclaimer saying that this is not a determined course of action, but merely a description of steps that would have to be taken in

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> -Original Message- > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 10:23 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > Hi Dennis, > > I think that th

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

nnis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:05 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > [ ... ] > A couple of different observations: > > >2.4 The mechanism for a

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 2016-09-06 16:00 (-0400), Jan Høydahl wrote: > A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a timely move now? > It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to various editors. > The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for copy/paste

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

l to publish a new release in November (during > ApacheCon), that is imho a right step. > > > Jörg > >> -Original Message- >> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM >> To: dev@openoff

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Simos Xenitellis wrote: > On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not >> be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an >> answer. >> >> What has been obvious, from following the

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

ge- >>> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement >>> Involve? (long) >>> >>> A well w

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

ber (during > ApacheCon), that is imho a right step. > > > Jörg > >> -Original Message- >> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

m: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement > Involve? (long) > > A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a > timely move n

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a timely move now? It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to various editors. The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for copy/paste into news articles. It should paint the broader picture, the state of the

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an answer. What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much "damage" Rob Weir has

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan: +1 I'm here for the present and the future, not the past. I also don't know what a single person - which has left the project long ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" thinking game. Marcus On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

+1 > -Original Message- > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 08:23 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > +1 > > I'm here for the present a

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > As different "technical press" outlets make their own derivations of other > articles, there is incorrect quotation and reference to historical matters > that have nothing to do with the present state and how

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

+1 I'm here for the present and the future, not the past. On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt wrote: never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir) were insulted by TDF representatives. It's

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt wrote: > never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir) were > insulted by > TDF representatives. It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of the *users* first. This project is

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

It appears to me that what "we" should do is to create a blog entry on blogs.a.o which provides more depth and detail in this whole kerfluffle. It could contain WHY the original [DISCUSS] thread was sent, that it was, in fact, a [DISCUSS] and basically to initiate some *thought* and not any sort

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Response in-line. > -Original Message- > From: Federico Leva (Nemo) [mailto:nemow...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 03:30 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > I see the biggest point as missing from the

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

ennis.hamil...@acm.org] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:40 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > And here's another: > <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after- > ye

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: I see the biggest point as missing from the list/plan posted by Dennis E. Hamilton: an easy upgrade path for current OpenOffice users It was not a plan. It was a what-if game that tried to analyze with an excessive level of detail how to execute one of the possible

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> From: Federico Leva (Nemo) [mailto:nemow...@gmail.com] > Perhaps some of the install/upgrade facilities could automate > the switch > to LibreOffice, and/or the most visited URLs (such as > /download/ on the > OOo website and /files/latest/download on Sourceforge) could be > redirected

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

I don't have very much free time, but once MacOSX build instructions are rewritten and the process clean. I am willing to validate the instructions and each step on a fresh Mac. This would also put me a position to cast a binding vote on a release when that is ready. Sent from my iPhone > On

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2016, at 5:37 PM, toki wrote: > >> On 02/09/2016 20:12, Dave Fisher wrote: >> >> I disagree with consumer vs corporate. Individuals have benefited greatly >> from all of the free projects like HTTPD, > > HTTPD is a Daemon, run for

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 02/09/2016 20:12, Dave Fisher wrote: > I disagree with consumer vs corporate. Individuals have benefited greatly > from all of the free projects like HTTPD, HTTPD is a Daemon, run for websites --- corporate, not individuals. >tomcat, Web server. Again, corporate, not individuals. >poi

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Yes, still VERY valid! > On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > I seem to recall that you made an offer to help with Mac builds. I know you > helped during incubation. Is your offer still valid? > > Regards, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone >

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 02/09/2016 12:52, RA Stehmann wrote: >> being an end-user focused effort. I would suggest we focus on not >> being one, but instead being a framework or library that can be consumed >> by actual end-user implementations. > If AOO is not an end-user focused project AOo is one of the few ---

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hi Jim, I seem to recall that you made an offer to help with Mac builds. I know you helped during incubation. Is your offer still valid? Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > >>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> -Original Message- > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 22:08 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > > > > -Original

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

easier than that for AOO, and also much improved. - Dennios > -Original Message- > From: RA Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 04:01 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Invol

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > >> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] > >> Patricia, we are still discussing. We are balancing reasons, >> advantages >> and disadvantages, for different solutions. There is no

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> From: Roberto Galoppini [mailto:roberto.galopp...@gmail.com] > We are on the same page here, and if security issues (real > ones) would be > left uncovered it would be fine if you and/or the board will step in. > > In the meanwhile PLEASE let us work, and let's see if we can > keep changing

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

This whole discussion is a chance to "prove me wrong" (as someone "out of touch") as well as to prove to the entire OO community what those "positive things" are. I am glad that the status-quo of today != the status-quo as of (today - 3weeksAgo). I am reminded of this scene from Pulp Fiction

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] > Patricia, we are still discussing. We are balancing reasons, > advantages > and disadvantages, for different solutions. There is no decision made. > > And more and more I believe, it was a good idea to start that >

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On Sep 2, 2016 3:29 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > > Yes, I would assume that many existing people would leave. > > But, as I mentioned, I would assume (hope) that many people > would join, and many of those would be from others in the > entire OO eco-system. > > Your reply seems

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Am 02.09.2016 um 15:08 schrieb Patricia Shanahan: > > This discussion has a serious self fulfilling prophecy downside. The > less ASF's commitment to AOO, the less my commitment is. I had been > thinking of buying a Mac and learning to do builds on it. That is an > investment of time, energy,

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

BTW, can we drop private@ on this and simply continue the discussion on dev@? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Yes, I would assume that many existing people would leave. But, as I mentioned, I would assume (hope) that many people would join, and many of those would be from others in the entire OO eco-system. Your reply seems to suggest that with the current status of AOO, maintaining an end-user focus is

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

On 9/2/2016 5:52 AM, RA Stehmann wrote: Am 02.09.2016 um 14:14 schrieb Jim Jagielski: What is obvious is that the AOO project cannot support, at the present time, being an end-user focused effort. I would suggest we focus on not being one, but instead being a framework or library that can be

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:j...@jagunet.com] > Secondly, as alluded to above, we should prepare ourselves > for the FUD, > the "AOO is dead" victory chants, the numerous anti-AOO and > anti-Apache > spewings, etc... There are some who will use this as a self-serving > soapboxing

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Dennis, thanks for opening up this conversation. As noted over the last few months, it has become obvious to the board that AOO has not been a healthy project for some time. Again, there are many, many reasons for this, and it doesn't help to go into them here and now. The simple fact is that we

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hello, our discussion became public: http://www.linux-magazin.de/content/view/full/106599 This shows a public interest. So "going public" seems not to difficult. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Quick top note: to avoid multiple mails I'll comment this and the others messages here. First, I totally agree with Andrea, let's focus on what needs to be done, it's inappropriate at best to discuss anything related to the shutdown at this time. Yet if someone enjoys the exercise of style that's

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hello, > From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] > the situation as I see it (I am no developer) is, that we need > "developers, developers, developers, developers ... ". > [...] This is not wrong, but ... Developers will participate primarily in projects which

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: One option for remedy that must be considered is retirement of the project. ... There are those who fear that discussing retirement can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is becoming too much. There are other options. Namely, a new release will invalidate the

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> -Original Message- > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 21:49 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis Hamilton <dennis.hamil...@acm.org> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Reti

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> -Original Message- > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 21:23 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Cc: priv...@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> > > What alternative do you see? > > > There's no particular reason that I can see, that AOO shouldn't be able to produce secure software, issue releases and do all of those other things. We've done it in the past (and yeah, I feel guilty about saying "we" since I haven't been very active. Mea

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> -Original Message- > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 21:16 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long) > > Wow, just wow. I

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

> (3) I think that working towards being able to release rather than patch > as Patricia has suggested is our best way to solve the security issue. The > quick patch is not much faster and has been proven to be more of a > challenge then kick starting the broken build process. > Forgive me for

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Wow, just wow. I have to say, I think even broaching this topic is a mistake. "Self-fulfilling prophecy"? Not even that, it'll be a "3rd party fulfilling prophecy" as soon as this hits the press. There are a lot of people out there who seem to have it in for AOO and have for a while... now you

RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[BCC to PMC] > -Original Message- > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 19:27 > To: priv...@openoffice.apache.org > Cc: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (lo

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hmm ... the discussion sounds a bit like Brexit ... With the important difference that it is now evident that Brexit didn't have a plan. Having a retirement plan is important for our users and for the ASF and while I think the discussion is sane and important I think we should focus now on the

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

Hi Dennis, I don't have objections to this topic, but I feel I need to make a few suggestions before this thread is either ignored or a confused mess. (1) a long, official policy statement like this is best put into a wiki page where many can edit it and it can be an easy discussion and not a