Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 11:56:47AM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> https://help.github.com/articles/using-a-custom-domain-with-github-pages/
> https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-your-pages-site-repository/

I say we trial this, as it's the simplest change, without additional overhead,
and we are then directly able to tweak things as we see fit.

Jason, are you OK with this?

Kindly,
Thomas Ada

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jaimos Skriletz]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III 
wrote:

> > "JS" == Jaimos Skriletz  writes:
>
> JS> So to complete the switch the fvwm.org domain needs to be pointed
> JS> at/redirected to github.io.
>
> That's easy for me to do, but before I make any changes.
>
> JS> I think pointing fvwm.org at github would be preferable as to keep
> JS> the domain name, but I'm unsure of anything that would need to be
> JS> done on github.io end to accept the fvwm.org as a virtual host and
> JS> point it to the correct location.
>
> Could someone triple check on that?
>
>
​Here is the documentation:

​​
https://help.github.com/articles/using-a-custom-domain-with-github-pages/
https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-your-pages-site-repository/

​From the DNS end you just need to set up the appropriate A, ANAME, ALIAS
record in the DNS.

>From Git repo end there needs to be a single file CNAME with the contents `
fvwm.org` as a single line in that file added to the fvwmorg.gethub.io
source. I will add this later tonight when I get home (and test it works)
before you need to update the DNS.

So it seems easy enough. Only thing It is not clear about what ip to point
at. I would assume the ip that fvwmorg.gethub.io is pointing at.

jaimos

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> "JS" == Jaimos Skriletz  writes:

JS> So to complete the switch the fvwm.org domain needs to be pointed
JS> at/redirected to github.io.

That's easy for me to do, but before I make any changes.

JS> I think pointing fvwm.org at github would be preferable as to keep
JS> the domain name, but I'm unsure of anything that would need to be
JS> done on github.io end to accept the fvwm.org as a virtual host and
JS> point it to the correct location.

Could someone triple check on that?

JS> The other option is have fvwm.org redirect to the above domain name.

I can do that as well.  Just let me know.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 02:45:22PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> Jaimos Skriletz  writes:
> 
> > Also I am unsure if these various markdown files, FAQ.md, AUTHORS.md,
> > DEVELOPERS.md, etc should be located and maintained on the webpage or
> > in $FVWM.GIT source. I think either can work with git.io so it is
> > probably a matter of preference. But agreed, these markdown files
> > should all be collected and maintained in a single place.
> 
> If I recall  correctly, we created Changelog, and AUTHORS  in the source
> tree because its a recommended part of a GNU source tree.
> (Similar to INSTALL, README, NEWS.)

Yes, but not required, thankfully.

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 11:58:41AM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Thomas Adam  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:47:24PM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> > > ​​
> >
> > Thanks!  It looks really good.  We can remove the Changelog section; people
> > can look at the release descriptions and/or Git history from now on.
> > Maintaining this is a doubling of effort for absolutely no reason.
> >
> >
> ​The ChangeLog page is just links to the files on GitHub so there is no
> maintenance on the page. Could be removed, I just thought it would be nice
> to have links easily found on fvwm.org for them.
> ​

It can be removed.

> > In terms of the FAQ, have you (for now) just copied that from
> > $FVWM.GIT/docs/
> > ?  If so, I can remove that file from the FVWM repo and make the one in
> > fvwmorg.gh.io the authoritative version (as it should be).  Same goes for
> > removing other files from the FVWM repo too, but that's a different
> > concern.
> >
> >
> No, the FAQ is a html dump (save as) from the old fvwm.org page as it was a
> copy of that file with linked anchors in it. The FAQ needs to be converted
> into a markdown file (complete with anchored links). Then I will create a
> simple wrapper to wrap the markdown file into the webpage. I would keep the
> FAQ around in $FVWM.GIT/docs/ until then.
> 
> Also I am unsure if these various markdown files, FAQ.md, AUTHORS.md,
> DEVELOPERS.md, etc should be located and maintained on the webpage or
> in $FVWM.GIT source. I think either can work with git.io so it is probably
> a matter of preference. But agreed, these markdown files should all be
> collected and maintained in a single place.

The point here is to put the files which relate to the website into the
repository which handles the web site, and for other files to remain outside of
it.  For the website, this includes:  authors, faq.  Developing happens in
FVWM and although you could link to that file in the FVWM.git repo, I wouldn't
bother.

>- A simple/minimal "default" config.

This has to then be maintained by us.  Maybe, but no thanks.  We've done this
in the past, and no one has maintained it.  There's such a plethora out there
on the Internet, just link to those.

>- Examples of various config snippets for things such as Vector
>Buttons, Window Decors, Menus, Modules, etc. (This was kinda attempted on
>the current fvwm.org page).


This can move to the wiki.

> I think the actual question is should fvwm.org provide any resources for
> configurations like above, or should it only link to other sites? This is
> also not something I was planning on including in the initial transition of
> moving the site to git.io, but was something I was thinking of developing
> and adding if there was interest to have a collection of config snippets on
> fvwm.org. If not I will look into updating the wiki (though I am liking
> jekyll over ikiwiki for building static pages).

Redirect to other sites for that sort of thing.  As for moving the wiki to
somthing on GH, sure.  But that's a different conversation and has no bearing
on the transition of the web site.

-- Thomas Adam

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Jaimos Skriletz  writes:

> Also I am unsure if these various markdown files, FAQ.md, AUTHORS.md,
> DEVELOPERS.md, etc should be located and maintained on the webpage or
> in $FVWM.GIT source. I think either can work with git.io so it is
> probably a matter of preference. But agreed, these markdown files
> should all be collected and maintained in a single place.

If I recall  correctly, we created Changelog, and AUTHORS  in the source
tree because its a recommended part of a GNU source tree.
(Similar to INSTALL, README, NEWS.)

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jaimos Skriletz]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Thomas Adam  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:47:24PM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> > ​​
>
> Thanks!  It looks really good.  We can remove the Changelog section; people
> can look at the release descriptions and/or Git history from now on.
> Maintaining this is a doubling of effort for absolutely no reason.
>
>
​The ChangeLog page is just links to the files on GitHub so there is no
maintenance on the page. Could be removed, I just thought it would be nice
to have links easily found on fvwm.org for them.
​


> In terms of the FAQ, have you (for now) just copied that from
> $FVWM.GIT/docs/
> ?  If so, I can remove that file from the FVWM repo and make the one in
> fvwmorg.gh.io the authoritative version (as it should be).  Same goes for
> removing other files from the FVWM repo too, but that's a different
> concern.
>
>
No, the FAQ is a html dump (save as) from the old fvwm.org page as it was a
copy of that file with linked anchors in it. The FAQ needs to be converted
into a markdown file (complete with anchored links). Then I will create a
simple wrapper to wrap the markdown file into the webpage. I would keep the
FAQ around in $FVWM.GIT/docs/ until then.

Also I am unsure if these various markdown files, FAQ.md, AUTHORS.md,
DEVELOPERS.md, etc should be located and maintained on the webpage or
in $FVWM.GIT source. I think either can work with git.io so it is probably
a matter of preference. But agreed, these markdown files should all be
collected and maintained in a single place.



> > I am working on a 'Config' section for the site to include examples of
> > decors, icons, sounds and vector buttons (many adapted from fvwm-themes).
> > But this is gonna take a while as I play with the different decors.
>
> Maybe.  It might be easier to just direct people towards things like
> Fvwm-{Crystal,Nightshade}.  The icons/sounds/etc., can just be forgotten
> about.  They're so old, it's not even funny, and if someone *really* wants
> those, shove them on the wiki.


​Agreed on the age of the resources. It may be that fvwm.org doesn't
provide any actual resources for configs and just points to other sites and
what I have been collecting can be put elsewhere. My vision wasn't to be a
full
configuration like Crystal or Nightshade, but provide configuration
examples complete with any resources needed (images, etc). ​My rough idea
was to include

   - A simple/minimal "default" config.
   - Examples of various config snippets for things such as Vector
   Buttons, Window Decors, Menus, Modules, etc. (This was kinda attempted on
   the current fvwm.org page).

I think the actual question is should fvwm.org provide any resources for
configurations like above, or should it only link to other sites? This is
also not something I was planning on including in the initial transition of
moving the site to git.io, but was something I was thinking of developing
and adding if there was interest to have a collection of config snippets on
fvwm.org. If not I will look into updating the wiki (though I am liking
jekyll over ikiwiki for building static pages).



> > I also think adding some feature to the buttons on the page would be
> nice,
> > but not sure what sort of silly feature (maybe some js/css magic) would
> be
> > good to add to the site.
>
> Maximizing of the div, perhaps?
>
> > Anyways, those are some ideas but as of now the above links give a
> > recreation of fvwm.org using a static site (with some redesigning). Any
> > input is appreciated.
>
> Thanks for this, Jaimos.  One question:  how would we handle adding new
> screenshots?  There's a script which runs to generate some HTML.  I presume
> this is manual at the moment?
>
>
​Currently it is a script which needs to be run manually (same for the man
pages, and that script is in worse shape, has hard links to files in my
$HOME). Once the site is on git.io I was thinking of looking into what sort
of hooks there are to generate stuff during the generation. Its current
state is just to be static for the move.
​
My hope is I got the site to a place that it can be transferred over to
git.io as a static page. Most of the above are things that can be resolved
after the transfer. This also includes adding any new content/features to
the site.

​jaimos​

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:47:24PM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> ​​
> 
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Jaimos Skriletz <
> jaimosskril...@boisestate.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Here is what I have created so far
> >
> > http://fvwmforums.org/fvwm.org/
> >
> > The sources are available on github
> >
> > https://github.com/somiaj/fvwmorg.github.io
> >
> >
> ​Update: ​The site is mostly complete and can probably be used as is. Just
> seeing if there is anything that should be added or removed from the site
> (you can check out the copy on fvwmforums.org for the current site).

Thanks!  It looks really good.  We can remove the Changelog section; people
can look at the release descriptions and/or Git history from now on.
Maintaining this is a doubling of effort for absolutely no reason.

In terms of the FAQ, have you (for now) just copied that from $FVWM.GIT/docs/
?  If so, I can remove that file from the FVWM repo and make the one in
fvwmorg.gh.io the authoritative version (as it should be).  Same goes for
removing other files from the FVWM repo too, but that's a different concern.

> I am working on a 'Config' section for the site to include examples of
> decors, icons, sounds and vector buttons (many adapted from fvwm-themes).
> But this is gonna take a while as I play with the different decors.

Maybe.  It might be easier to just direct people towards things like
Fvwm-{Crystal,Nightshade}.  The icons/sounds/etc., can just be forgotten
about.  They're so old, it's not even funny, and if someone *really* wants
those, shove them on the wiki.
 
> I also think adding some feature to the buttons on the page would be nice,
> but not sure what sort of silly feature (maybe some js/css magic) would be
> good to add to the site.

Maximizing of the div, perhaps?

> Anyways, those are some ideas but as of now the above links give a
> recreation of fvwm.org using a static site (with some redesigning). Any
> input is appreciated.

Thanks for this, Jaimos.  One question:  how would we handle adding new
screenshots?  There's a script which runs to generate some HTML.  I presume
this is manual at the moment?

You've got a whole bunch of files that shouldn't be committed; will discuss
this with you on IRC if you like, and we've a little bit of work to do with
tidying up, but from what I can tell, this looks more-or-less complete.

Good job!

Thomas Adam

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jaimos Skriletz]

​​

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Jaimos Skriletz <
jaimosskril...@boisestate.edu> wrote:

> Here is what I have created so far
>
> http://fvwmforums.org/fvwm.org/
>
> The sources are available on github
>
> https://github.com/somiaj/fvwmorg.github.io
>
>
​Update: ​The site is mostly complete and can probably be used as is. Just
seeing if there is anything that should be added or removed from the site
(you can check out the copy on fvwmforums.org for the current site).

I am working on a 'Config' section for the site to include examples of
decors, icons, sounds and vector buttons (many adapted from fvwm-themes).
But this is gonna take a while as I play with the different decors.

I also think adding some feature to the buttons on the page would be nice,
but not sure what sort of silly feature (maybe some js/css magic) would be
good to add to the site.

Anyways, those are some ideas but as of now the above links give a
recreation of fvwm.org using a static site (with some redesigning). Any
input is appreciated.

jaimos​

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jaimos Skriletz]

Here is what I have created so far

http://fvwmforums.org/fvwm.org/

​Jekyll seems to be fairly straight forward for the basics. Once the
framework is setup, you can just add/remove files as either .html or
.markdown (.md) with a small YAML header. This will then cause the software
to generate the static website by wrapping each html or markdown page into
the layout.​

I tried to keep to the base theme and just be simple. From here it is
mostly a matter of filling in all the missing pages.

The link above is to get some feedback on design. Also let me know of any
additional features you think should be added/removed.

The sources are available on github

https://github.com/somiaj/fvwmorg.github.io

jaimos

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On 26 March 2016 at 01:11, Dan Espen  wrote:
> My account is named "danespen".

I've added you, along with Jaimos as well.  My last official act
before I move onto a few more important things for a bit.

>> Note that I'm getting married this weekend and will then be away on
>> honey moon for two weeks.
>
> Enjoy and don't even think about Fvwm.

What's Fvwm?  ;)

> I've no specific plans for retirement.
> I'm on my own and starting over.

I wish you all the best, Dan.

-- Thomas Adam

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Thomas Adam  writes:

R> On 23 March 2016 at 22:21, Dan Espen  wrote:
> Excellent.  Then set yourself up with a Github account, and let me
> know your username, and I'll add you to the fvwmorg and you can do
> something with the website repository.

My account is named "danespen".

> Note that I'm getting married this weekend and will then be away on
> honey moon for two weeks.

Enjoy and don't even think about Fvwm.

I've no specific plans for retirement.
I'm on my own and starting over.

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 05:37:50PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> > "TA" == Thomas Adam  writes:
> 
> TA> I note that it's possible to set up webhooks on repositories on
> TA> Github.  We could use that mechanism to notify you of changes which
> TA> need pulling (and hence, enact some script to do a git-pull), rather
> TA> than polling for them.
> 
> It's probably not worth the effort compared to running a cron job every
> few minutes, but if it's easy then I'll at least try.

I think it's worth exploring, and I've done it before for other notification
things.

> I'm OK with continuing to maintain the site this way, but I'm not going
> to complain if you want to move it all to github.  What I really want to
> do is get away from having to keep the CVS server running.

Of course, I'm surprised you hadn't burned it already.  :)

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> "DE" == Dan Espen  writes:

DE> Not sure why, maybe I paid, but paid for you?

Yes, the last time it came up for renewal, you paid for it.  We didn't
actually transfer the ownership or the registrar.  If you want to do
that, though, then just let me know what I need to do.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> "TA" == Thomas Adam  writes:

TA> I note that it's possible to set up webhooks on repositories on
TA> Github.  We could use that mechanism to notify you of changes which
TA> need pulling (and hence, enact some script to do a git-pull), rather
TA> than polling for them.

It's probably not worth the effort compared to running a cron job every
few minutes, but if it's easy then I'll at least try.

I'm OK with continuing to maintain the site this way, but I'm not going
to complain if you want to move it all to github.  What I really want to
do is get away from having to keep the CVS server running.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 04:43:53PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> OK, a manual pull worked.  Turns out that the update script is in my
> home directory, which isn't accessible without a kerberos ticket.
> That's fixed up.

TGTs.  Nice!

> It's a trivial matter to have this do a git pull instead, so if the
> fvwm-web repository on github is up to date, then just let me know and
> I'll switch over.

I keep thinking about that; it's certainly an option.  Perhaps we can trial
this to see how it goes.  I note that it's possible to set up webhooks on
repositories on Github.  We could use that mechanism to notify you of changes
which need pulling (and hence, enact some script to do a git-pull), rather
than polling for them.

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Jason L Tibbitts III  writes:

>> "JS" == Jaimos Skriletz  writes:
>
> JS> who controls the domain name fvwm.org,
>
> A whois query shows that it's me.

Not sure why, maybe I paid, but paid for you?

  From: Gandi 
  Subject: [GANDI] fvwm.org domain name renewed
  To: des...@verizon.net
  Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 16:58:29 +0200 (2 years, 34 weeks, 4 days ago)


  Dear Customer,

  We are pleased to confirm that you have successfully renewed the following 
domain that is registered at Gandi:

  fvwm.org

  This domain has been renewed for 3 year(s), and the new the new expiration 
date is therefore 2017-12-29 05:00:00

  As a reminder for your records, the handle that you used to renew this domain 
is XX.


-- 
Dan Espen

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 04:00:19PM -0600, Jaimos Skriletz wrote:
> Hello, I have offered to help migrate the fvwm.org to something more
> maintainable as this is something Thomas was wanting help with in #fvwm.

Hi Jaimos,

> I am unsure on a lot of the details about how the current site is
> generated, who controls the domain name fvwm.org, and what any current or
> future plans for the site are, but offered to help in any migration.

So the domain is controlled by "us", but in reality, it's Jason who's
responsible for that.

The fvwm-web documentation (if you can call it that) is found here:

http://fvwm.org/documentation/dev_cvs.php#fvwm-web

Note the scripts (I've mentioned them in other threads here) which link
through to the fvwm repo.  That's an aspect we have to change---what's needed
on the website stays in the website, so if we have to move files into that,
sobeit.

Other than that, everything is in PHP.  When the website is updated (currently
with 'cvs update') then that's polled sometime later via a cronscript which
makes the content live on fvwm.org

> Thomas mentioned wanting to move it to git-hub and generating it from
> markdown using jekyll. So I offered to learn jekyll and convert the current
> site to a static site written in markdown. I was just going to do this all
> locally and see what I am able to get done in figuring out how to customize
> a site with jekyll.
> 
> So this email is just to let you know that I'm looking at what it would
> take to move the site to markdown and use jekyll to generate a static copy.
> I'm thinking once I get it configured a lot of copying and pasting, but
> I'll have to get back to the jekyll docs to figure out more.

Thanks!

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> "JS" == Jaimos Skriletz  writes:

JS> who controls the domain name fvwm.org,

A whois query shows that it's me.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jaimos Skriletz]

>
> Jaimos Skriletz has also expressed an interest in this (I'ev Cced him), and
> he'll post here soon about what his thoughts are, etc.  Hopefully you and
> he
> can work together on this.
>

​Hello, I have offered to help migrate the fvwm.org to something more
maintainable as this is something Thomas was wanting help with in #fvwm.

I am unsure on a lot of the details about how the current site is
generated, who controls the domain name fvwm.org, and what any current or
future plans for the site are, but offered to help in any migration.

Thomas mentioned wanting to move it to git-hub and generating it from
markdown using jekyll. So I offered to learn jekyll and convert the current
site to a static site written in markdown. I was just going to do this all
locally and see what I am able to get done in figuring out how to customize
a site with jekyll.

So this email is just to let you know that I'm looking at what it would
take to move the site to markdown and use jekyll to generate a static copy.
I'm thinking once I get it configured a lot of copying and pasting, but
I'll have to get back to the jekyll docs to figure out more.

jaimos

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

OK, a manual pull worked.  Turns out that the update script is in my
home directory, which isn't accessible without a kerberos ticket.
That's fixed up.

It's a trivial matter to have this do a git pull instead, so if the
fvwm-web repository on github is up to date, then just let me know and
I'll switch over.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> "DE" == Dan Espen  writes:

DE> Meanwhile, I committed fvwm-web changes yesterday, but those changes
DE> have not shown up at fvwm.org.

Where did you commit them?  I'm surprised you could commit at all, given
the fact that the CVS server isn't really happy.  I'll try to do a pull
manually.

 - J<

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 05:21:27PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Hi Dan,

> My first impression, it's Github only.

No, not at all.  It's a way of generating HTML from static templates, which
can be augmented with CSS and extra HTML where necessary.  It just so happens
that what Github hosting offers, is Jekyll support out-of-the-box.

> I lean toward writing plain HTML/CSS with a little JavaScript for
> maximum portability and familiarity.

I'm afraid I lean in the opposite direction.  We are by no means a special
snowflake such that we need to do this from scratch.  One of the aims here is
to be able to take away the need for writing HTML/CSS, not make it an upfront
requirement.

Jaimos Skriletz has also expressed an interest in this (I'ev Cced him), and
he'll post here soon about what his thoughts are, etc.  Hopefully you and he
can work together on this.

> Meanwhile, I committed fvwm-web changes yesterday, but those
> changes have not shown up at fvwm.org.
> 
> Jason, what's up?

Probably the same problem with the main FVWM repo; it's wedged.

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Thomas Adam  writes:

> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 09:19:18PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Yep, I'm referring to the web pages.
>> I have some CSS based pages at work using themes.
>> The themes aren't really important to me, but since
>> I doubt GIT is going to give us PHP I think we'll be better off without
>> the PHP.
>
> Have a look at this:
>
> https://help.github.com/articles/about-github-pages-and-jekyll/
>
> I think this would be a good way to go, and would reduce the need for us to
> potentially write any HTML.
>
> I'm all for using Jekyll in this case!

My first impression, it's Github only.
I lean toward writing plain HTML/CSS with a little JavaScript for
maximum portability and familiarity.

Meanwhile, I committed fvwm-web changes yesterday, but those
changes have not shown up at fvwm.org.

Jason, what's up?

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 09:19:18PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> Yep, I'm referring to the web pages.
> I have some CSS based pages at work using themes.
> The themes aren't really important to me, but since
> I doubt GIT is going to give us PHP I think we'll be better off without
> the PHP.

Have a look at this:

https://help.github.com/articles/about-github-pages-and-jekyll/

I think this would be a good way to go, and would reduce the need for us to
potentially write any HTML.

I'm all for using Jekyll in this case!

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On 24 March 2016 at 01:19, Dan Espen  wrote:
>> Thomas Adam  writes:
>> See previous paragraph, I do not think this is the right approach at all.
>
> I don't see the difference.
> Right now Jason pulls from CVS to build the pages at fvwm.org.
> He said he's willing to pull from Git instead.
> So, the fvwm-web can be in CVS or GIT, it doesn't matter,
> we just need Jason to decide where he wants to pull from.

Well, it makes all the difference, actually.  There's no need to pull
from anything if the eventual aim is to switch over to the fvwm-web
repository on Github.  One of the reasons for doing this way is it's
not only easy to set up, but it means _we_ as fvwm-workers@ don't need
to have the overhead of hosting it ourselves.

We can leave the fvwm-web version on fvwm.org as is, and just redirect
to fvwmorg.github.io as needed, when the work on the website is
complete.

Note that I can't remember if I've mentioned it already, but the
current "building" phase of the website relies on files from the fvwm
repository.  This will have to change, notably:

* We no longer need a NEWS file or Changelog---yes, we can have NEWS
items, but we'll have to handle that differently to how we do now.
* The FAQ is same; that file should be moved out of the fvwm
repository and into the website repository, ideally converted to use
Markdown---I've already done this to some of the files in the fvwm
repository, should you need an example.

> Well, CONGRATULATIONS.
> That's just great.

Cheers!

> I was married in 1964.
> I'm retiring as of March 31.

Oh, congratulations to you, too!  Do you have plans for your retirement, Dan?

Kindly,
Thomas

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Thomas Adam  writes:

> On 23 March 2016 at 22:21, Dan Espen  wrote:
>> I think we're embarking on a lot of work.
>
> Which aspect, specifically?  Note that if you're referring just to the
> website, then you might be right---I don't know enough about HTML/CSS
> to make that call.  However, it requires someone with enough
> understanding to put in place something static which can be hosted on:
>
> https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwmorg.github.io
>
> Note that this repository as-named, assumes hosting under github.io,
> which as I understand it makes thing a lot easier.  Certainly,
> removing PHP at this point is definitely a good idea, as we're not
> gaining anything from its use any more that CSS can't provide.  I
> consider this a good thing.

Yep, I'm referring to the web pages.
I have some CSS based pages at work using themes.
The themes aren't really important to me, but since
I doubt GIT is going to give us PHP I think we'll be better off without
the PHP.

>> As a start I've updated the download instructions to send users to GIT.
>
> OK.
>
>> I know you have the web stuff on GIT but if I make changes there they
>> won't get to fvwm.org.
>
> That's OK -- because we can leave what's hosted on fvwm.org
> as-is---and start to do something proper with fvwmorg.github.io --
> that's your play area.  Go forth and have a blast.  Note that I'm
> envisaging something which is self-hosting.  That is to say, something
> we can redirect to from fvwm.org -- I see that as a positive thing
> indeed.

We own the domain name, I'm not clear on the details but I think once
we move the pages we can just make Fvwm.org be the git pages.

>> Jason, let us know if/when you start pulling the web pages from GIT.
>
> See previous paragraph, I do not think this is the right approach at all.

I don't see the difference.
Right now Jason pulls from CVS to build the pages at fvwm.org.
He said he's willing to pull from Git instead.
So, the fvwm-web can be in CVS or GIT, it doesn't matter,
we just need Jason to decide where he wants to pull from.

>> I'm pretty good with HTML/CSS.  PHP gives us some nice stuff, but I
>> guess we can live without it.
>
> Excellent.  Then set yourself up with a Github account, and let me
> know your username, and I'll add you to the fvwmorg and you can do
> something with the website repository.

Okay, will get to that sometime.

> Note that I'm getting married this weekend and will then be away on
> honey moon for two weeks.

Well, CONGRATULATIONS.
That's just great.
I was married in 1964.
I'm retiring as of March 31.

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On 23 March 2016 at 22:21, Dan Espen  wrote:
> I think we're embarking on a lot of work.

Which aspect, specifically?  Note that if you're referring just to the
website, then you might be right---I don't know enough about HTML/CSS
to make that call.  However, it requires someone with enough
understanding to put in place something static which can be hosted on:

https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwmorg.github.io

Note that this repository as-named, assumes hosting under github.io,
which as I understand it makes thing a lot easier.  Certainly,
removing PHP at this point is definitely a good idea, as we're not
gaining anything from its use any more that CSS can't provide.  I
consider this a good thing.

> As a start I've updated the download instructions to send users to GIT.

OK.

> I know you have the web stuff on GIT but if I make changes there they
> won't get to fvwm.org.

That's OK -- because we can leave what's hosted on fvwm.org
as-is---and start to do something proper with fvwmorg.github.io --
that's your play area.  Go forth and have a blast.  Note that I'm
envisaging something which is self-hosting.  That is to say, something
we can redirect to from fvwm.org -- I see that as a positive thing
indeed.

> Jason, let us know if/when you start pulling the web pages from GIT.

See previous paragraph, I do not think this is the right approach at all.

> I'm pretty good with HTML/CSS.  PHP gives us some nice stuff, but I
> guess we can live without it.

Excellent.  Then set yourself up with a Github account, and let me
know your username, and I'll add you to the fvwmorg and you can do
something with the website repository.

Note that I'm getting married this weekend and will then be away on
honey moon for two weeks.

Kindly,
Thomas Adam

Re: FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Dan Espen]

Thomas Adam  writes:

> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 08:16:13PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Moving the Fvwm-web source to Github won't help if we still need to
>> publish using Jason's services.
>
> So I've taken a look at this, and have noted the following:
>
> * PHP is used to regenerate the theming components of the site;
> * PHP is used to render in from the fvwm repo, the contents of files from:
>   
>   NEWS
>   FAQ
>
> * PHP is used to ensure the theme is applied consistently for the borders for
>   "window" (the default theme).
>
> What happens via github.io pages is that static content can be used for this.
>
> I'm starting to think that we have no desire or need for PHP at all for the
> website.  Before the use of static HTML generators, etc., it made a lot of
> sense.  Additionally, there's a lot one can do with CSS which mitigates the
> need for PHP as we're currently using it for the website.
>
> As for the linking in NEWS/FAQ -- the NEWS file in particular is obsoleted,
> given that git commit logs can be used to gather the same information.  That
> said, if we do retain NEWS for releases, we can just upload a separate set of
> notes for that against each release in the releases area of Github [1].  It's
> a part of the process.
>
> The FAQ therfore, is part of the website and it should be moved into that
> repository.
>
> I've since renamed the fvwm-web repository [2] to match the expectations of
> what github.io expects.
>
> I'd really (REALLY!) be interested in someone coming up with a proof of
> concept on what a FVWM website might look like using a static HTML generator
> that github.io accepts, just to prove my points above.  I won't be doing that
> work, however, but if someone does want to give this a go, do please let us
> know!
>
> Kindly,
> Thomas Adam
>
> [1]  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm/releases
> [2]  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwmorg.github.io

I think we're embarking on a lot of work.
As a start I've updated the download instructions to send users to GIT.
I know you have the web stuff on GIT but if I make changes there they
won't get to fvwm.org.

Jason, let us know if/when you start pulling the web pages from GIT.

I'm pretty good with HTML/CSS.  PHP gives us some nice stuff, but I
guess we can live without it.

-- 
Dan Espen

FVWM website: WAS: [Re: FVWM code moved to Github]

[Thomas Adam]

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 08:16:13PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> Moving the Fvwm-web source to Github won't help if we still need to
> publish using Jason's services.

So I've taken a look at this, and have noted the following:

* PHP is used to regenerate the theming components of the site;
* PHP is used to render in from the fvwm repo, the contents of files from:
  
  NEWS
  FAQ

* PHP is used to ensure the theme is applied consistently for the borders for
  "window" (the default theme).

What happens via github.io pages is that static content can be used for this.

I'm starting to think that we have no desire or need for PHP at all for the
website.  Before the use of static HTML generators, etc., it made a lot of
sense.  Additionally, there's a lot one can do with CSS which mitigates the
need for PHP as we're currently using it for the website.

As for the linking in NEWS/FAQ -- the NEWS file in particular is obsoleted,
given that git commit logs can be used to gather the same information.  That
said, if we do retain NEWS for releases, we can just upload a separate set of
notes for that against each release in the releases area of Github [1].  It's
a part of the process.

The FAQ therfore, is part of the website and it should be moved into that
repository.

I've since renamed the fvwm-web repository [2] to match the expectations of
what github.io expects.

I'd really (REALLY!) be interested in someone coming up with a proof of
concept on what a FVWM website might look like using a static HTML generator
that github.io accepts, just to prove my points above.  I won't be doing that
work, however, but if someone does want to give this a go, do please let us
know!

Kindly,
Thomas Adam

[1]  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm/releases
[2]  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwmorg.github.io