-- must not
be broken.
That seems very short-sighted indeed.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Saint
Augustine and Stonehenge -- that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.
- Umberto Eco
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
release in Unicode 4.1.
No, there shouldn't. The process will not be changed. Unicode and
ISO/IEC 10646 are synchronized, and JTC1 ballotting processes are
what they are. No further discussion is necessary, as it is pointless.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
Which is not to say that the Name Police won't prefer WHEELCHAIR
SYMBOL. Time will tell.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
preparing additional religious symbols to help fill the gaps.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
text would break all kinds of things, and would
be horrible, horrible, horrible. Invent a new control character for
this weird property-killer, if you must, but don't use an ordering
mark for it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
the
cantillation marks in the Hebrew block.
Speaking as a member of WG2, I do not think that we should encode
such duplicate characters.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to the UTC, it would be
advantageous to involve Israeli Biblical scientists in the review.
We've wanted *that* for a long time. Indeed it is a long-standing
request that Israeli experts help to map the TC46 8-bit standard with
cantillation marks to Unicode. Can you help facilitate this?
--
Michael
a character and adding a
duplicate one with the right properties differs from deprecating a
version of UAX #15 in favour of an Oughta-Been table.
:-)
I think it would be better to create a new character for this purpose than
to use ZWJ in yet another way.
I suppose CGJ is tempting.
--
Michael Everson
that out first before
setting things in stone, rather than saddling us with this
hodgepodge of ad hoc workarounds? How short sighted. As Rick said,
I know this will get shot down; don't bother telling me so.
I agree with you, Peter.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
of these issues addressed to them?
You might submit your paper to WG2.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
for the dozen or so instances that would be affected?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 14:34 +0200 2003-06-27, Philippe Verdy wrote:
On Friday, June 27, 2003 1:29 PM, John Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
Change the character classes in Unicode 4.1, and they *might* decide
to freeze support at, say, Unicode 3.0.
Or they may simply opt to define
At 07:28 -0400 2003-06-27, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
Who is it who will kill the Unicode Consortium if UAX #15 were to be
revised? Did it occur to anyone to *ask* about the possible revision
of classes for the dozen or so instances that would be affected?
The IETF, for one
At 09:16 -0400 2003-06-27, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
Oh, come on. Let's not put words in people's mouths. Ifs and mights
are not facts.
Expressed attitudes are facts, and it's reasonable to extrapolate people's
future behaviors, at least the general trend thereof, from
filenames.)
All concerns involving human beings -- ho bios politikos -- are political
in some sense.
And some have more sense than others, it seems. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I think the answer is, regarding the soft dot property, please leave
the ij ligature alone.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to distinguish sentence enders from the same marks used
in other ways, esp. periods in abbreviations.
Fie! Fie! Unclean! Unclean!
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 15:03 -0400 2003-07-07, Tex Texin wrote:
When is a character properly called a currency sign?
Hunh? When you use it to represent currency. DM was two characters
used as a character sign in Germany.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 15:12 -0400 2003-07-07, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
The typing habit was designed to assist typesetters in reading the
manuscript as they were setting type.
Either this says that double-spacing after a sentence improves the readability
of monospaced documents, or I
, a full *en space* (M/2) between sentences will generally be
welcome.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
letter of the
word. (In Finland that would be M:r.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:22 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
the punctuation mark for
end of sentence ?
I am sure there is not. Sometimes a dot is just a dot.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 17:00 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
Well, to be frank, I'm sure that the Welsh, Scots, and Manx probably
do, too. (Did I leave anybody out *this* time?)
The Cornish, of course. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
available somewhere
even with no official status.
http://www.evertype.com/alphabets
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
thought (by someone) to be less
suitable than the English-based he and yi which replaced them.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 01:21 -0400 2003-07-13, John Cowan wrote:
I hand-write by making a tall lower-case epsilon glyph and then drawing
a solidus over it.
I just use the TIRONIAN SIGN ET.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 14:09 -0400 2003-07-13, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
I hand-write by making a tall lower-case epsilon glyph and then drawing
a solidus over it.
I just use the TIRONIAN SIGN ET.
A good choice if you don't slash your DIGIT SEVENs and can make your
DIGIT ONEs sufficiently
this is a good time to make your opinions known.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
horizontal stroke as a slashed 7 does.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to use a PUA character until such time as the encoding
process has run its course.
I would not recommend using COMBINING MACRON for the ZWARAKAY, and I
don't know what could be recommended for the AFGHANI SIGN that is
already encoded, apart from writing out the word.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
it was. Glagolitic and Cyrillic are obviously two
different scripts. My native script isn't Hebrew but I am certain
that no one who was could easily read a newspaper article written in
Phoenician or Samaritan letters.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 07:02 -0400 2003-07-15, David J. Perry wrote:
What is Latg vs Latn?
Latg is the Gaelic variant of the Latin script; Latf is the Fraktur
variant of the Latin script; Latn is the generic Roman default.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 08:42 -0400 2003-07-15, Karljürgen Feuerherm wrote:
Michael Everson said:
My native script isn't Hebrew but I am certain that no one who was could
easily read a newspaper article written in Phoenician or Samaritan letters.
Surely that is not an argument for encoding a separate script
At 09:22 -0400 2003-07-15, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
Latg is older than the current use of Latn, though not than Latn's
ancestor.
You're wrong. Latg is older than Latc (Carolingian) but it is not a
separate script.
VVELLIFYOVCOVNTANCIENTROMANSTYLEASORDINARYLATINSCRIPTTHENYES
At 12:05 -0400 2003-07-15, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
We disunify Glagolitic, and rightly so too. But that does not mean
that there are not intermediate cases that ought to be unified, and
without definite criteria, it's hard to know what to do.
Just grok them? :-)
Nope
that Late Aramaic is still a candidate for encoding.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 09:39 -0700 2003-07-15, Peter Kirk wrote:
But then J was originally a glyph variant of I, and only quite
recently in English have they been fully distinguished as letters.
It's not all that recent, and it wasn't English that made the innovation.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
(and in fact knowledge of Xucuri seems to be quite low
in Georgia).
The UTC has agreed that we should do this. After 8 years or so of my
whining ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
as a variant of Greek than it is to have it be encoded as a
distinct script.
Particularly as they regularly write text in both Coptic and Greek
and this distinction is better expressed in plain text than in the
font.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 17:34 -0400 2003-07-15, Patrick Andries wrote:
Sütterling ?
Sütterlin. Sütterling is the name of a panda in the Berlin zoo.
( Ludwig Sütterlin, 1865-1917)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 21:09 +0100 2003-07-15, Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote:
On 2003.07.15, 12:16, Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Latg is the Gaelic variant of the Latin script;
Also known as _erse_, I was told.
That's incorrect. Erse is a Scots form of the word Irish. It's
sometimes
specification for Europe should be the
MES-2. If you are talking to these people, tell them.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 17:01 +0100 2003-07-17, William Overington wrote:
Michael Everson raises some interesting points.
William.
If CENELEC wishes to standardize a set of icons, they will do so. If
they have a need to interchange data using those icons, they will (if
they are wise) come to us an ask to encode them
that was
supported earlier on. It doesn't depend on very smart fonts.
Personally I prefer the Multilingual European Subset.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
in fonts).
You are entitled to your opinion. This work was begun and finished long ago.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
based. It includes all Latin,
Greek, Cyrillic, Georgian, and Armenian characters. And is a superset
of MES-2.
I *prefer* Unicode to any subset thereof.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
If this is of interest to CENELEC, feel free to tell them.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Your message has encountered delivery problems
to the following recipient(s):
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivery failed
554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.co.in account
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [-5] - mta104.mail.in.yahoo.com
See?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 11:28 -0400 2003-07-18, John Cowan wrote:
However, a font like Last Resort (the world's smallest giant font, as it were)
does that just about as well.
While I hate seeing the Last Resort font show up, I love seeing it
when it does. :-) S much better than ?.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
.
and not even MES-3 covers all official minority languages.
What's missing?
(But as Philippe states, there are some rather useless characters
that have been included for compatibility reasons.)
Same goes for Unicode though. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 00:44 +0200 2003-07-19, Adam Twardoch wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This merely means that somebody has a virus who had both Michael and Roozbeh
in his/her address book.
People who believe that e-mails with a particular name in the From field
must come from
glyph is displayed in the Last
Resort font.
On Windows, the cannot find a font for it situation is the NULL glyph.
Not much netter than ?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to Greek
to some degree.
The Coptic script derives from the Greek script, but the language is
Late Egyptian.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
that the
Unicode standard is definitely closed, or permanently consider that
is repertoire is now closed and no more characters will be added...
Of course you would be wrong.
I think you mistook me.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
positions which have not been
assigned). I thought somehow that there was a glyph for broken
characters (characters that were just plain wrong) as well.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
characters are used, actually, but
I could be wrong.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I've discussed the matter with Christian and you can write to me about it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
them individually.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to interchange script block indicators.
(Ken suggested offline that this name might be better-received than
the DO NOT LITTER SIGN)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 09:56 -0600 2003-07-20, John H. Jenkins wrote:
No, it uses the acutal Unicode characters, and just has a huge cmap
that maps everything in Unicode to the glyph for its block.
That is just so cool. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Off-topic, but interesting. This just crossed my desk
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2cid=518u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_re_eu/france_out_with__e_mail__3printer=1
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
this.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
go have a chat with some of my Apple colleagues about this.
It's unlikely that your Apple colleagues can do anything for
the J in Code2000.
I wasn't talking about that, but if you'd like my opinion, I hate that J too.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 10:59 -0400 2003-07-21, Patrick Andries wrote:
- Message d'origine -
De: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 19:56 -0400 2003-07-20, Patrick Andries wrote:
Obviously, the AP has found someone to say it is artificial.
Of course, all language is artificial.
Well, at least all new
At 11:41 +0100 2003-07-22, Marion Gunn wrote:
I read that 'i' (in the Apple context) as
meaning 'i(nternet ready)'. It is possible I
could be wrong about that. Am I?
Yes, you are.
--
ME
more.
Politely, ISO 15924 supplies a special code for this case.
You're welcome.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
be the United Kingdom of Great Britain, which comprises
England, Scotland, Wales, and the Duchy of Cornwall.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 04:58 -0700 2003-07-28, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 28/07/2003 04:31, Michael Everson wrote:
The Normans of course were frankified Norsemen.
(My word. Apparently francized would be used in
Québec; frencify occurs but is apparently
often derog..)
Thanks, Michael. Of course I could have
suggested
At 11:47 -0700 2003-07-28, Peter Kirk wrote:
So if Finland was part of Russia, Canada is part
of England. How do you like that one,
Karljürgen? Should I expect an imminent French
(Canadian) invasion?
I thought Québec wanted to join the EU
(Ducks again.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
is going to be
used 50 years from now? I really would like to know.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to the right), but are different in
the UK.
That doesn't mean it's a good idea that these things aren't standardized.
Though I like the fused UK and Irish electric socket plugs, which are
extremely safe
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 07:31 -0700 2003-07-29, Peter Kirk wrote:
I don't think you French Canadians would be very happy if accented
upper case vowels were removed from Unicode because they are not
used in France.
This isn't true. They *are* used in France.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 11:47 -0400 2003-07-29, Karljürgen Feuerherm wrote:
I believe they're optional though, at least, aren't they?
Not in good typography. You must unlearn what you have learned
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
letters alone were
available and diacritics were not normally
included as part of the character set.
Then you have the old problem: what does « LE
PRESIDENT ASSASSINE » mean if such a practice is
employed?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 08:47 -0700 2003-07-29, Peter Kirk wrote:
Another example might be German ß (U+00DF). Many
people don't use it, indeed I think it has been
officially abolished, but many others do use it.
Peter, there isn't a shred of truth in what you are saying.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
At 10:36 -0700 2003-07-29, Peter Kirk wrote:
The only shred of untruth is that what I said I think is true is in
fact an exaggeration, the abolition is only partial.
Hence it was not officially abolished.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. Otherwise we
would write Karljfrontedu/frontedrgen or the like.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
-based solution.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
with an actual illustration of the
problem. I don't follow it from the verbal description.
In Tengwar, tinco with a three-dot diacritic over it can be read [ta]
or [at] depending on the language.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:50 -0400 2003-07-30, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
See the reference glyph for U+FB4B. One form looks like this with
the dot above further to the left, the other like it with the dot a
little further to the right. This glyph with the centred dot is a
compromise between
;HEBREW VOWEL HOLAM MALE;Lo;0;R;compat 05D5 05B9N;
We do not encode any HEBREW VOWELs. We encode LETTERs and combining marks.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 21:57 +0200 2003-07-31, Jony Rosenne wrote:
I was under the impression that old English manuscripts did use different
glyphs for the two sounds of th.
Thorn and eth.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:18 -0400 2003-07-31, Ted Hopp wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:03 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
We do not encode any HEBREW VOWELs. We encode LETTERs and combining marks.
I agree with the do not if it's descriptive of current practice. If it's
prescriptive, I'd have to ask why. (And please
is stored, with a few minor
exceptions, in phonetic order (a lexicographical principle).
Are you thinking of the Tengwar?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
may be found at
http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-vowels.pdf and
http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar.pdf
It *is* a problem.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
they apply to,
but (like double width combining characters) have ink
over/under the glyph for the base character that follows.
Kent. Read my papers. A similar approach is proposed.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
expands to the largest
diacritic(s) with which it is combined).
The Name Police reject this utterly. ZERO WIDTH cannot have an
expanding dynamic width.
This pseudo-character will not be encoded. Time to drop the thread.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 17:46 +0100 2003-08-08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm reasonably sure that this question reflects my own ignorance, rather
than some problem with the standard, but nonetheless, I am confused.
Read the text. Don't just read the code charts.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
elaboration than is needed here.
We are well aware of Avestan and Pahlavi, which were roadmapped
without any difficulty.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
explained that if it is not implemented correctly you should yell at
the implementors.
In Mac OS X, for instance, the horizontal spacing seems to work all
right for many accents, but they seem to prefer to rest just above
the baseline. I'll report this as a rendering bug.
--
Michael Everson
Hebrew.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to learn
more about a disaster in language planning.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
proposal. We have something roadmapped, and I for one
don't want to spend time right now defending its roadmapping to you
apart from what is in my earlier paper on Semitic scripts. Could you
turn off the fire alarms?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
We encode scripts so that we can represent texts. And we will do it,
as we have, to the best of our ability, but not by lumping everything
together just because it makes things easy for database programmers.
Best regards,
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
is not typesetting, and that kind of music
representation is outside of the scope of the Unicode Standard.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
specified way to represent what you say you want
to represent. If an implementation doesn't do that nicely enough,
complain to the implementors. (This has already been suggested to
you.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
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