Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
petition is now at 450 signatures :jumping: 500 is round the corner... by the calfaifcheof this week that goal should be reached!!! =) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25530642.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
2009/9/22 Tommy27 ba...@quipo.it petition is now at 450 signatures :jumping: 500 is round the corner... by the calfaifcheof this week that goal should be reached!!! =) Tommy27, the message above is spam. Please place any notifications regarding the number of signers of your petition on your own website, where those interested can consult them, rather than wasting our time here with a blow-by-blow description. Thank you. Henri
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
M Henri Day wrote: 2009/9/22 Tommy27 ba...@quipo.it petition is now at 450 signatures :jumping: 500 is round the corner... by the calfaifcheof this week that goal should be reached!!! =) Tommy27, the message above is spam. Please place any notifications regarding the number of signers of your petition on your own website, where those interested can consult them, rather than wasting our time here with a blow-by-blow description. Thank you. Henri To Henri and Tommy: Tommy has a website of his own? Geesh why didn't some say so, before all the nasty words came about? Can someone put it on this sight one time, and then require any and all who want to follow this thread to go to that website? :-( -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
if the petition is do useless and if you consider that the umber of signature is irrelevant, why do you keep wasting your time attcking me and criticize the petition? :confused: i think that the reality is that you are afraid of the success of the petition... 8-O actually the count is 428 and it is still rising :-D -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25528212.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: @The Beaver thanks for the compliment about my IQ... as you know people with IQ over 140 are considered genious or near genious ( http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/ ) actually the number is even higher: 414 @John Boyle it seems those users wanna censor thread they don't like while they could simple unsubscribe themselves. moreover they accusing me of polluting the thread while i just keep answering to thier accuses. if they do not want this thread to stay on top why do the keep feeding it? To Tommy: In essence that is what I said to one of them, also! If they do not like the thread, why do they not just delete it? :-) -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
John Boyle wrote: Tommy27 wrote: @The Beaver thanks for the compliment about my IQ... as you know people with IQ over 140 are considered genious or near genious ( http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/ ) actually the number is even higher: 414 @John Boyle it seems those users wanna censor thread they don't like while they could simple unsubscribe themselves. moreover they accusing me of polluting the thread while i just keep answering to thier accuses. if they do not want this thread to stay on top why do the keep feeding it? To Tommy: In essence that is what I said to one of them, also! If they do not like the thread, why do they not just delete it? :-) Deleting or filtering the subject does keep one from seeing it, but it is still wasting bandwith. In as much as it is a subject that has clearly run its course and has had numerous posters state the same, he should just go away. Oh, and as for you. PLONK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
gene, all you say is just plonk... plonk... plonk... :confused: you always use the same word... %-| at least my numbers change... :-D actually 421 signatures... :jumping: 500 will come soon!!! :super: -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25525255.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
wonderful explanation, Larry... however it doesn't seem that Gene is ignoring me since he still keeps commenting this thread despite havinh plonked me so many times... :thinking: but let's forget about Gene for a moment and let's analyze your contribution to the thread... i see that you Larry keep insulting user calling them idiots... i've already told ya... i wan't come down to your low level... :-U tell me the insults you want... they won't harm me at all... :wistle: they won't stop the petition... 423 right now... you see? it never stops growing!!! =)=^D -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25525545.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote (19-9-2009 23:23) they won't stop the petition... 423 right now... you see? it never stops growing!!! =)=^D Today I saw the petition site... I am shocked by the shameless, misleading and false lie to promote the petition. Then the 'positive' news': it has already 423 supporters of the wanted 50.000. That is about 10 people with every mail you send to this list. So you have another 4950 mails to go. And since we know you won't stop ... :-\ -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: smiley image='anim_claps.gif' text=':clap:' / @JB if you find the petition so useless why do you take so much effort to fight it? we got not 401 signatures :handshake::jumping: =) Tommy Could you please concentrate on the main reason for this forum. The reason is to help people with problems with the openoffice software. Please start helping Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Cor Nouws wrote: Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (16-9-2009 15:35) In that mail it looks like he writes about attempting to dodge or camouflage the issue by calling the activity by a different name. Your suggestion to gather data seems different and very unrelated to Mathhias' apparent proposal to copy 'The Ribbon', as far as I can see. Pls see Matthias' reply in the thread. And believe it. Or not. Oh, I belevie Matthias' reply alright. That's the one where he affirms intent to copy the ribbon but lower the profile by using other naming for it. Gathering usability data is a good idea if it leads away from the complexity and inconsistency of context-sensitive buttons. There are a lot of low hanging fruit to pick on the UI tree. You are free to contribute on as many topics and as much as you like. But pls don't shoot the people that make different choices than you would do. Sorry fresh out of wadcutters and dumdums. Would you settle for a few mercury loads? They're not as green though. I'm not talking about those who make 'different choices' I am talking about those who actively shit in a good project. Most of the IT problems we have are because people like you were allowed to get away with dragging things down. Speaking for my own: I see the whole world changing with all kind of new interfaces. Blaaat. Blaaat. Bllt. Says MS marketing. MS is inevitable, resistance is futile. Yadda yadda. See Exhibit 3096 here in either text or PDF, two paragraphs up from the slog on page 9: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351958 Next you'll talk about touch screens. Or interactiveness. Bleating that every project must stop, turn around and follow tail-end charlie is asinine and shows that someone bought into too much marketing. So I don't see any problem at all in taking a fundamental look at ours. Which is what *everyone* here seems to agree on. However, looking at the interface is not the same as giving a carte blanch to copy a failure like 'the ribbon' On the contrary: ignoring the changing world does not seem a good idea to me. And am happy that I can give my comments and ask my questions on the work in progress. Again, see the sheep paragraph and other paragraphs above. The UI needs work, especially in Impress, but even more so in Impress. It can be built up and improved. Or it can go the way of the ribbon -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Rob Clement wrote: Tommy Could you please concentrate on the main reason for this forum. The reason is to help people with problems with the openoffice software. Please start helping He is, albeit in a more proactive way then many are used to. -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
this time i'll say just a number: 409. =) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25513999.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 21:12, Tommy27 ba...@quipo.it wrote: this time i'll say just a number: 409. =) 409 - Conflict Indicates that the request could not be processed because of conflict in the request, such as an edit conflict. BTW: Maybe a new pitiful trick by the wicked Ribbonization Gang: Award Ribbons ... → http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/medals ♏ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 12:12 -0700, Tommy27 wrote: this time i'll say just a number: 409. =) Please stop this noise. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: this time i'll say just a number: 409. =) Is that your IQ? Or is there another reason you are too stupid to kill this thread that nobody is interested in - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
The Beaver wrote: Tommy27 wrote: this time i'll say just a number: 409. =) Is that your IQ? Or is there another reason you are too stupid to kill this thread that nobody is interested in - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org To the Beaver: If you were NOT interested in it, why did you not delete it??? :-) -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
@The Beaver thanks for the compliment about my IQ... as you know people with IQ over 140 are considered genious or near genious ( http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/ ) actually the number is even higher: 414 @John Boyle it seems those users wanna censor thread they don't like while they could simple unsubscribe themselves. moreover they accusing me of polluting the thread while i just keep answering to thier accuses. if they do not want this thread to stay on top why do the keep feeding it? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25518671.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 20:24, Tommy27 wrote: i did not offend anybody. Just because your delusion is that you didn't offend anybody, the fact remains that your postings have offended people. the petition is growing minute after minute 373 right now in less than 4 weeks. Given the number of subscribers to this list, that is a pathetically small number. the number is very high... blog posts on GullFoss never received so much attention. even Renaissance survey collected just 1800 replies in more than 2 months. IOW, quadruple the number of replies that your effort has garnered. Oh, and people that did that survey have a reasonable expectation that the developers will actually read at least a synopsis of the pros and cons of the proposal. or does this implies that even their numbers are useless and insignificant? Statistically, the number of responses they received is borderline. The best use of the data they collected is to utilize applied qualitative statistical analysis. now many of you ask censorship of this thread. It is not censorship to request that you stay on topic. The thrust of your messages have been, at best, off topic. petition will not stop, i don't care of what you say Internet petitions are a dime a dozen, with change left over. For politicians, ten million names on an internet petition, is worth one signature in ink on a printed petition. One letter, handwritten, in ink, is worth one million typed letters on the same subject. One typed letter is worth one million emails on the same subject. Software development is a slightly different critter. None the less the same degree of respect for the medium applies. IOW, one handwritten letter to the developers will be worth at least ten billion signatures on your Internet petition. As such, you'd be much more effective by writing a reasoned, logical, well thought out letter, explaining exactly why, and where their proposal goes wrong, and how those faults could be corrected. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
smiley image='anim_claps.gif' text=':clap:' / @JB if you find the petition so useless why do you take so much effort to fight it? we got not 401 signatures :handshake::jumping: =) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25502949.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote (16-9-2009 7:04) well said John, the Ribbon is gonna kill OOo usability!!! P.S. thanks for signing the petition: updated count is 352 OpenOffice.org does not plan to implement the ribbon. A ribbon-like idea only plays a role in prototyping, together with many other principles and ideas. This has been explained before. You still continue to mislead people :-( -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote (16-9-2009 7:04) well said John, the Ribbon is gonna kill OOo usability!!! P.S. thanks for signing the petition: updated count is 352 OpenOffice.org does not plan to implement the ribbon. A ribbon-like idea only plays a role in prototyping, together with many other principles and ideas. This has been explained before. You still continue to mislead people :-( This Tommy idiot doesn't understand.. Internet petitions do absolutely ZERO!! They have ZERO influence. They achieve absolutely nothing. Show me ONE Internet petition that had ANY impact at all on the topic it was supporting. There isn't one. All that is happening is people are getting annoyed by all this SPAM about signing the useless petition. Tommy is all excited because in the past month 50 people have signed this mindless useless meaningless petition. The petition does nothing but make him look like a total troll. Tommy, you can rant and rave like this as much as you want, but you're only making yourself look more and more and more like a total fool - as Cor was politely trying to point out. You rant and rave on the forum, to the point you got a ban warning, and threads you participate in are locked... you just don't get it. You're only looking stupid. If you bothered to join the Renaissance project and contribute there you could influence the direction the project is going... propose something better promoting a useless petition on a site full of scam links will do ZERO. A lot of us, myself included do not like the proposal. The smart ones among us provided feedback to the Project explaining in rational terms what we saw was wrong with the proposal. The dumb ones rage about here like an annoying 2 year old with Attention Deficit Disorder. I've had enough... and I know a LOT here have had enough of this petition nonsense. Shut up about it already! Let this mailing list return to what is was designed for.. users helping users. Stop polluting the list with your idiocy and your misleading and false accusations. Rog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Presta, you insult people and are unpolite. shame on you. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25467597.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Op 15 september 2009 23:23 heeft Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl het volgende geschreven: Beste Guy, Guy Voets wrote (15-9-2009 16:34) I'll sign when the petition is on a legitimate petition site. Mag ik vragen waar je voor of tegen gaat tekenen? Persoonlijk vind ik het een slechte zaak. a. er is in het latere protoptype geen sprake van een ribbon en al helemaal niet van een MS kopie (dat was in de eerste prototypen ook niet) b. het is niet constructief om zo te 'communiceren' Maar ... hoe kijk jij er tegen aan?? vr. groet, Cor -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl Hello Cor, For what I've seen, I agree with what Harold Fuchs wrote on Sept. 1st: My main objections are: 1. The UI shown in the example took far too much screen space. 2. The UI is far less important than many other things in OOo. If there are resources available they should be deployed fixing major bugs and/or implementing popularly requested enhancements. I might add that communication about this project hasn't been too clear and informative, so rumour tends to take over, which is a bad thing for Open Source. I think we agree on that -- Guy using dutch OOo Aqua 3.1.1 on a iMac Intel DualCore Leopard and brazilian OOo Aqua 3.1.1 on an Intel MacBook Pro Leopard -- please reply only to users@openoffice.org -- Dodoes can't afford to have headaches - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
From: Tommy27 ba...@quipo.it Subject: Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance To: users@openoffice.org Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 7:52 AM Presta, you insult people and are unpolite. shame on you. Like everyone else here, I'm tired of your stupidity. You have been told over and over and over how to make your voice heard to the Rennaisance project. You're apparently too dumb to follow the advice. It's time someone spoke up and told you in less than polite terms that you're an idiot. Shame on you for being too dumb to follow that advice... shame on you for not listening to the polite responses. I'm done with you and you're foolishness. Do you know what a Plonk is? You've been plonked. You're the weakest link.. .goodbye. Rog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
In data 16 settembre 2009 alle ore 10:05:42, Presta Rogerator prestarogera...@yahoo.com ha scritto: Like everyone else here, I'm tired of your stupidity. You have been told over and over and over how to make your voice heard to the Rennaisance project. You're apparently too dumb to follow the advice. It's time someone spoke up and told you in less than polite terms that you're an idiot. To moderators: are you really tolerating this kind of language here? Please, take action! TIA, Gianluca -- Tempesta e Passione sbarcano su Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Sturm-Drang-Gianluca-Turconi/dp/B002ACTPSE/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1243410943sr=1-79 Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: Presta, you insult people and are unpolite. shame on you. But he doesn't lie. You need to go away now. Gene Y. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Cor Nouws wrote: Tommy27 wrote (16-9-2009 7:04) well said John, the Ribbon is gonna kill OOo usability!!! P.S. thanks for signing the petition: updated count is 352 OpenOffice.org does not plan to implement the ribbon. A ribbon-like idea only plays a role in prototyping, together with many other principles and ideas. This has been explained before. You still continue to mislead people :-( Not really, Cor. Matthias said much earlier in this thread that what 'renaissance' was about was the implementation (aka copying) of The Ribbon in OOo, but called by a different name. So far, all the arguments in favor of copying the failure known commonly as The Ribbon go along the lines of copying it because it is from Microsoft. Again, OOo is about providing productivity software not copying. Base needs real UI work, Writer and Calc probably are the least problematic. Fix Base up rather that waste time running to the back of the pack to follow the follower. -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Lars Nooden wrote (16-9-2009 14:53) Matthias said much earlier in this thread that what 'renaissance' was about was the implementation (aka copying) of The Ribbon in OOo, but called by a different name. [...] He did not. You obviously missed the mail about that http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=usersmsgNo=198155 (I already wondered why you did not give a normal answer.) Regards, Cor -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (16-9-2009 14:53) Matthias said much earlier in this thread that what 'renaissance' was about was the implementation (aka copying) of The Ribbon in OOo, but called by a different name. [...] He did not. You obviously missed the mail about that http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=usersmsgNo=198155 In that mail it looks like he writes about attempting to dodge or camouflage the issue by calling the activity by a different name. Your suggestion to gather data seems different and very unrelated to Mathhias' apparent proposal to copy 'The Ribbon', as far as I can see. Gathering usability data is a good idea if it leads away from the complexity and inconsistency of context-sensitive buttons. There are a lot of low hanging fruit to pick on the UI tree. -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
@Gene Young people here's accusing me of being the owner of scam site who illegally sell OOo... how these people can move such infamous accuses without any proofs? i'm not a liar... these people are the real liars accusing me of somthing is not true. @Manfred J. Krause i'm not bulldozing anything. i'm just aswering to the infamous accuses and insults of some reader of this mailing list. @Lars Nooden the developers will never admit they are inspiring to the awful and unusable MS Ribbon... to my eyes and of many people who tried the prototype, Renaissance looks like just a variant, a clone or a very similar GUI (you decide how to call it) of Ribbon... since i think Ribbon suck, i think we should protest against OOo Ribbonization. that's my thought and that of the 364 who signed the petition... you see? the count is always higher!!! :jumping: -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25472976.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: @Gene Young people here's accusing me of being the owner of scam site who illegally sell OOo... how these people can move such infamous accuses without any proofs? i'm not a liar... these people are the real liars accusing me of somthing is not true. You can really twist statements to convey your desire rather than the meaning of the person making the statement. I do not recall seeing anyone state that you are the owner of the scam site, only that you promote it. By utilizing such a site you are, de facto, supporting and promoting it because you encourage people to go to it. You are still old news and you should still leave now. Gene Y. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (16-9-2009 15:35) In that mail it looks like he writes about attempting to dodge or camouflage the issue by calling the activity by a different name. Your suggestion to gather data seems different and very unrelated to Mathhias' apparent proposal to copy 'The Ribbon', as far as I can see. Pls see Matthias' reply in the thread. And believe it. Or not. Gathering usability data is a good idea if it leads away from the complexity and inconsistency of context-sensitive buttons. There are a lot of low hanging fruit to pick on the UI tree. You are free to contribute on as many topics and as much as you like. But pls don't shoot the people that make different choices than you would do. Speaking for my own: I see the whole world changing with all kind of new interfaces. So I don't see any problem at all in taking a fundamental look at ours. On the contrary: ignoring the changing world does not seem a good idea to me. And am happy that I can give my comments and ask my questions on the work in progress. Ciao - Cor -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: since i think Ribbon suck, i think we should protest against OOo Ribbonization. that's my thought and that of the 364 who signed the petition... you see? the count is always higher!!! :jumping: With approximately 450,000 users world wide (and I think that is a conservative estimate) 364 signers is about 0.08% support for your petition. You are running uphill in a downhill race. Have an epiphany and go away until you can see straight. -- Gene Y. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Please drop this entire thread. It is not going anywhere, and is producing nothing but some annoyance. --David Teague - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
i did not offend anybody. other people offended me... those people are those who should learn how to stay in a mailing list. the petition is growing minute after minute 373 right now in less than 4 weeks. the number is veryhigh... blog posts on GullFoss never received so much attention. even Renaissance survey collected just 1800 replies in more than 2 months. or does this implies that even their numbers are useless and insignificant? some of you accused me to not communicate with Renaissance to make it better... false again... read my many proposals here http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface now many of you ask censorship of this thread. this reveals your narrow vision. you don't respect other people opinions if they differ from yours petition will not stop, i don't care of what you say http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/ -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25479873.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: i did not offend anybody. other people offended me... those people are those who should learn how to stay in a mailing list. the petition is growing minute after minute 373 right now in less than 4 weeks. the number is veryhigh... blog posts on GullFoss never received so much attention. even Renaissance survey collected just 1800 replies in more than 2 months. or does this implies that even their numbers are useless and insignificant? some of you accused me to not communicate with Renaissance to make it better... false again... read my many proposals here http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface now many of you ask censorship of this thread. this reveals your narrow vision. you don't respect other people opinions if they differ from yours petition will not stop, i don't care of what you say http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/ plonk!! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
gene, i should thank you, really!!! the more you flame this thread, the more it stays on top of the list, the more users hear about the petition and the more users sign it. have a nice evening. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25480353.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
now it is ME offending you? :confused: incredible... %-| -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25481900.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
At 13:24 16/09/2009 -0700, Tommy Noname wrote: petition will not stop, i don't care of what you say This is a fascinatingly irrational pairing of statements - especially when combined, as they are, in the same sentence. Anyone promoting a petition must surely need to have confidence that there is at least a chance that those they are wishing to convince will have at least some interest in what the petition says. If those same promoters declare no interest at all in others' opinions, what hope can they have that they will be heard at all? Might their opponents not also say they care not what the petition says? But it seems rationality is not the name of the game here ... Brian Barker - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
again the same false accuses... i'm not the first author of the petition so i cannot edit it... i told ya many times but still don't wanna understand it... petition goes on despite your accuses... we got now 337 signatures and it keep growing!!! -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25453139.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: again the same false accuses... i'm not the first author of the petition so i cannot edit it... If you can't find the authors of the petition, please take a few moments to create a new one at a legitimate petition service. No one outside of a small circle of de Icaza types wants to saddle OOo with a copy of a failure like the ribbon You'll get even more signatures at a legitimate petition site. -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
I'll sign when the petition is on a legitimate petition site. -- Guy using dutch OOo Aqua 3.1.1 on a iMac Intel DualCore Snow Leopard and brazilian OOo Aqua 3.1.1 on an Intel MacBook Pro Leopard -- please reply only to users@openoffice.org -- Dodoes can't afford to have headaches - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: the reasons for the birth of the petition have been communicated to Renaissance developers on their blog: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface the majority of comments was negative. we don't want a Ribbonized OpenOffice, that's it. Nobody with a brain is actually going to stop using OOo just because it has a ribbon. An intuitive interface is a plus and if the ribbon can be made to work instead of just hide everything like MS does, then it is a good thing. Quit bitchin' and start helping! It has been noted that some people do not like the ribbon mostly because they view it as copying MS. Eventually, when more features are added, the ribbons will be full and will not look like wasted real estate. Floyd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
the GUI prototype of Renaissance sucks even more than Ribbon. the standard GUI is more usable. this is my opinion and 342 users who signed the petition agree with me. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25457262.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
no one of the 347 signers (you see, any time i post here the number is always higher...) has complained about scam sites because no one of them is so dumb to be fooled by those advertosing. the only one who are concerned by those scam site are people like you that don't wanna sign the petition... telle me, Larry, hao many bucks did you loose clickin scam links on a petition site you did not even want to sign? your is just a way to discredit the petition... but the petition still grows!!! we are approaching 400 signatures in your face!!! -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25461266.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: no one of the 347 signers (you see, any time i post here the number is always higher...) has complained about scam sites because no one of them is so dumb to be fooled by those advertosing. A number of people have complained (on this very list) about the scam site links. Just take people's advice and set up a new petition with no scam sites, that way you won't have your cause sullied by any association with the scams. It certainly makes one question (properly) the motives of someone setting up a petition when it's loaded with links to scam sites. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
people signing the petition know what a GUI is, know what a Ribbon and a Renaissance mean, and most important know that OOo is freeware, so there will be nobody so dumb to be fooled by those scam links... when i signed the petition (i think i was numebr 67... actually 348) i did not even notice those banners becuase i know that internet advertising is 99% crap... Renaissance will be a flop!!! the petition is gaining a big success stop with this ridiculous scam links excuse... if you love that awful Renaissance GUI don't sign the petition, that's it... -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25461613.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Larry, i make no bucks becuase i have no financial interest with those sites... did you stopped a while thinking that by keeping asking over and over again the same things despite you already got the answer, you are keeping this topic at the top of the list... in this way you are promoting the petition and the scam links as well... weird, isn't it? stay tuned, signature 400 is getting closer... i will alert you when it comes... you don't wanna miss that event, right buddy? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25461899.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: stay tuned, signature 400 is getting closer... i will alert you when it comes... you don't wanna miss that event, right buddy? Please, spare us all ... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Richard Detwiler wrote (15-9-2009 23:15) Tommy27 wrote: stay tuned, signature 400 is getting closer... i will alert you when it comes... you don't wanna miss that event, right buddy? Please, spare us all ... And yourself, Tommy27. You make yourself ridiculous, and that all will be archived for years and years ... -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Pierre wrote: James Knott wrote: Some people feel the need to fix something that isn't broken. A similar situation is developing with the Linux KDE desktop, where apparently eye candy has become more important than function. Exactly! And while we're at it, why did they wreck Amarok? Don't get me started on KDE and Amarok and KsCD!!! Functionality has been deprecated in favour of cashew nuts, plasma and trying to be too flash. Like a car - the more moving parts, the more there is to break. I thought that UNIX coding was make a tool, make it do one (or a few) things very well, make it so it can be coupled (e.g. piped) with other tools to make more powerful tools, and so on. Why can't the OOo and KDE ( Amarok KsCD, for example) developers focus on function first and let form evolve if it needs to do so. Is this the developers or some other design contingent who are chasing this dragon? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
The Beaver wrote: Tommy27 wrote: the reasons for the birth of the petition have been communicated to Renaissance developers on their blog: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface the majority of comments was negative. we don't want a Ribbonized OpenOffice, that's it. Nobody with a brain is actually going to stop using OOo just because it has a ribbon. An intuitive interface is a plus and if the ribbon can be made to work instead of just hide everything like MS does, then it is a good thing. Quit bitchin' and start helping! It has been noted that some people do not like the ribbon mostly because they view it as copying MS. Eventually, when more features are added, the ribbons will be full and will not look like wasted real estate. Floyd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org To the Beaver: Correction, Nobody With a BRAIN WILL USE OOo WITH THE RIBBON, if they know what is good for them!!! :-( -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
well said John, the Ribbon is gonna kill OOo usability!!! P.S. thanks for signing the petition: updated count is 352 -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25466002.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
M Henri Day wrote: [...] Gianluca, sidebars are lovely (I keep my Delicious Bookmarks in one) on a wide-screen monitor, but they can be problematic for those using net books - something for developers to keep in mind. Best would be an option to allow one to move panels according to one's needs Absolutely. Then, I'd like seeing more customization in the next prototype, since it is an important point in making someone's mind up about liking or disliking the new UI, especially if he/she is a power user. Regards, Gianluca -- Tempesta e Passione sbarcano su Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Sturm-Drang-Gianluca-Turconi/dp/B002ACTPSE/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1243410943sr=1-79 Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: any idea, Gianluca, about when a new prototype will be released? Nope. I think some of the co-lead in Renaissance project are still on vacation or just come back. Indeed, I even don't know if a 0.17 prototype was programmed. -- Tempesta e Passione sbarcano su Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Sturm-Drang-Gianluca-Turconi/dp/B002ACTPSE/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1243410943sr=1-79 Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
any idea, Gianluca, about when a new prototype will be released? i'm curious to see if developers will take into some account all the negative comments (petition included) received for the previous ones... -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25433061.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: Re: Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
well, IMHO the 0.16 prototype still sucks and stinks a lot of Ribbon... i hope they will change direction... all the negative comments and the petition as well (updated count is 317) are loudly asking for this!!! -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25434569.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Considering the fact that online petitions are pretty much as useful as a b-hole on your elbow, I would encourage people to actually communicate with the project designers as to why this is a bad idea rather than submit a signature that can easily be faked. Tommy27 wrote: PETITION: http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/ Some OpenOffice developers announced, few time ago, a great (in their minds) project: Trying to copy ugly, unusable Ribbon interface, made by Micro$oft for Word and other Office products http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_ui_july http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface This Ribbonized GUI has already several negative comments by Micro$oft users, so, why trying to copy a poor GUi instead to analyze and solve serious issues present in OpenOffice? (it has many serious issues) if you Agree with me (and many other) please sign petition, so we can stop OpenOffice renaissance (or middle age?) not useful project, and developpers can avoid to stress and go to solve issues. The petition has already collected 176 signatures. please, add yours - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
the reasons for the birth of the petition have been communicated to Renaissance developers on their blog: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface the majority of comments was negative. we don't want a Ribbonized OpenOffice, that's it. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25447864.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
- Original Message - From: Mark C. Miller mr.mcmil...@gmail.com To: users@openoffice.org Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:50 AM Subject: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance you can't stop what is unstoppable. the petition count is now 296, despite insults and discredit attempts from some Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers n=296 out of how many users? Doesn't sound like the petition will have much impact. Maybe we should start getting used to the idea? Well, figures are always relative. :-) In fact, the users who have answered the final survey that appeared after closing the UI prototype were 1808 only: http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discussmsgNo=4013 Exactly: 1808 responses for this survey (1587 full responses, 221 responses not completely filled out) The survey feedback is not publicly available, AFAIK. What I'd like to see in the next prototype, if it will be available, is a version of this proposal: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar_Proposal_by_IBM since a sidebar approach has not been considered at all in the previous prototypes. Regards, Gianluca -- Tempesta e Passione sbarcano su Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Sturm-Drang-Gianluca-Turconi/dp/B002ACTPSE/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1243410943sr=1-79 Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
John Boyle wrote: To Tommy27: Where does one sign up for this petition? :-[ the petition link is: http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/ please sign it and ignore advertising links which are only rubbish. i'd like to see your signatures. we already have 305. we need to be more to fight the awful Renaissance GUI @mcm Gianluca correctly pointed out which numbers are relative. i remind you that the official OOo servey collected1800 replies in a 2-3 months... while we collected 305 petition signatures in just 3 weeks. moreover i bet that the majority of the 1800 OOo surveys were negative towards Renaissance just as it happened in any fourm i know -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25421097.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
2009/9/13 Gianluca Turconi gianl...@letturefantastiche.com - Original Message - From: Mark C. Miller mr.mcmil...@gmail.com To: users@openoffice.org Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:50 AM Subject: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance Well, figures are always relative. :-) In fact, the users who have answered the final survey that appeared after closing the UI prototype were 1808 only: http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discussmsgNo=4013 Exactly: 1808 responses for this survey (1587 full responses, 221 responses not completely filled out) The survey feedback is not publicly available, AFAIK. What I'd like to see in the next prototype, if it will be available, is a version of this proposal: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar_Proposal_by_IBM since a sidebar approach has not been considered at all in the previous prototypes. Regards, Gianluca Gianluca, sidebars are lovely (I keep my Delicious Bookmarks in one) on a wide-screen monitor, but they can be problematic for those using net books - something for developers to keep in mind. Best would be an option to allow one to move panels according to one's needs Henri
[users] Re: Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
the best solution IMHO would be to have a double GUI (standard Renaissance/Ribbon) users could choose. I would certainly keep using the standard GUI since i consider Renaissance just a waste of space and a loss of productivity fancy chunky GUI. that's why i support the petition. sign it here: we have already 311 signatures and we need more. http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/ -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25430515.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:21 -0700, Tommy27 wrote: Keith Bates-2 wrote: Excuse the top posting, but I really think that this discussion (for want of a batter word) should have been stopped a couple of days ago. you can't stop what is unstoppable. the petition count is now 296, despite insults and discredit attempts from some Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers n=296 out of how many users? Doesn't sound like the petition will have much impact. Maybe we should start getting used to the idea? mcm -- Mark C. Miller - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Mark C. Miller wrote: On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:21 -0700, Tommy27 wrote: Keith Bates-2 wrote: Excuse the top posting, but I really think that this discussion (for want of a batter word) should have been stopped a couple of days ago. you can't stop what is unstoppable. the petition count is now 296, despite insults and discredit attempts from some Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers n=296 out of how many users? Doesn't sound like the petition will have much impact. Maybe we should start getting used to the idea? mcm To Users and mcm: If the petition does not convince the developers to come to their senses, how about refusing to upgrade to the MSFT clone they want to produce? I believe that counts, also!!! I did not start using OOo because I could not use MSFT or other programs, only to end up with MSFT GARBAGE ANYWAY! I wish, to those who are Linux users, that I had had a better experience with Linux, I guarantee you I would NOT be using MSFT ANYTHING, NOW, IF IT HAD GONE THAT WAY! You could say that at heart I am a LINUX TROLL!!! :-) -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: Keith Bates-2 wrote: Excuse the top posting, but I really think that this discussion (for want of a batter word) should have been stopped a couple of days ago. you can't stop what is unstoppable. the petition count is now 296, despite insults and discredit attempts from some Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers To Tommy27: Where does one sign up for this petition? :-[ -- Old Sarge-John Boyle IN GOD WE TRUST! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy27 wrote: your quacks will not stop the petition, Larry. :-p Larry or some of his kind might be paid to be the turd in the Internet swimming pool, but it's no longer acceptable to stay quiet and simply added more chlorine on the condition that Larry and co float down at their end of the water. Now that they're seen for what they are, it's time to change the water after clearing the pool of 'debris'. I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense -- I deserve it. http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ Copying Windows or offshoots like Office goes beyond co-existence and into collaboration, in the negative sense of the word. Tommy27 wrote: I'm not the starter of the petition so i cannot edit it and add that warning. Dingo-Dog or whoever started that petition made a mistake either on purpose or by accident. Trolls like Larry and James won't stop a petition, but keeping it at a scam site will. Tommy27, make a new petition at a legitimate survey site. Even Larry's skill level can handle that. -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
2009/9/11 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Tommy27 wrote: your quacks will not stop the petition, Larry. :-p Larry or some of his kind might be paid to be the turd in the Internet swimming pool, but it's no longer acceptable to stay quiet and simply added more chlorine on the condition that Larry and co float down at their end of the water. Now that they're seen for what they are, it's time to change the water after clearing the pool of 'debris'. I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense -- I deserve it. http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ Copying Windows or offshoots like Office goes beyond co-existence and into collaboration, in the negative sense of the word. Tommy27 wrote: I'm not the starter of the petition so i cannot edit it and add that warning. Dingo-Dog or whoever started that petition made a mistake either on purpose or by accident. Trolls like Larry and James won't stop a petition, but keeping it at a scam site will. Tommy27, make a new petition at a legitimate survey site. Even Larry's skill level can handle that. -Lars Lars, insinuating that a certain poster to this list «or some of his kind» are being paid (by whom ? Microsoft ?) to be «the turd in the Internet swimming pool», without the slightest evidence, or calling them for «[t]rolls» contributes nothing of value to the discussion. Vet hut !... Henri
[users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Excuse the top posting, but I really think that this discussion (for want of a batter word) should have been stopped a couple of days ago. We've heard the opinions and rants, and it's just down to name calling which the vast majority of subscribers to this list just don't want to listen to any more. Keith On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 14:32 +0200, M Henri Day wrote: 2009/9/11 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Tommy27 wrote: your quacks will not stop the petition, Larry. :-p Larry or some of his kind might be paid to be the turd in the Internet swimming pool, but it's no longer acceptable to stay quiet and simply added more chlorine on the condition that Larry and co float down at their end of the water. Now that they're seen for what they are, it's time to change the water after clearing the pool of 'debris'. I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense -- I deserve it. http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ Copying Windows or offshoots like Office goes beyond co-existence and into collaboration, in the negative sense of the word. Tommy27 wrote: I'm not the starter of the petition so i cannot edit it and add that warning. Dingo-Dog or whoever started that petition made a mistake either on purpose or by accident. Trolls like Larry and James won't stop a petition, but keeping it at a scam site will. Tommy27, make a new petition at a legitimate survey site. Even Larry's skill level can handle that. -Lars Lars, insinuating that a certain poster to this list «or some of his kind» are being paid (by whom ? Microsoft ?) to be «the turd in the Internet swimming pool», without the slightest evidence, or calling them for «[t]rolls» contributes nothing of value to the discussion. Vet hut !... Henri -- God bless you, Keith Bates www.new-life.org.au If you don't have a reason to live JESUS IS THE ANSWER! Ask him into your life today... He really does make a difference
[users] Re: [openoffice] Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Keith Bates-2 wrote: Excuse the top posting, but I really think that this discussion (for want of a batter word) should have been stopped a couple of days ago. you can't stop what is unstoppable. the petition count is now 296, despite insults and discredit attempts from some Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25410631.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Larry Gusaas-4 wrote: So you are both promoting the advertised Open Office scam on the petition website. Do the two of you own this fake Official OO.o website and try to collect money from people so they can download OO.o? no. we have no financial interest in this. we are not responsible of those scam links. so SIGN THE PETITON but NEVER TRUST THOSE LINKS -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p2537.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
I'm not the starter of the petition so i cannot edit it and add that warning. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25385350.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
your quacks will not stop the petition, Larry. :-p our team will win!!! =) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25391129.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
--On Wednesday, September 09, 2009 08:38:41 PM +0200 M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/9 Bernd Eilers bernd.eil...@sun.com Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this: http://webwereld.nl/gallery/63487/openoffice-kiest-ribbon-combinatie--f oto-s-.html (Mind, #2 is not 0.16 - this slide shows the choices in the prototype-app) Nice publication indeed. Just a quick heads up to those who have so far seen only remarks or screenshots on mailinglists, blogs and websites. The prototype application can still be started via java webstart from within a browser using the following URL http://tools.services.openoffice.org/impressprototype/impressprototype.j nlp Prerequisite is that you have java 1.5 installed on your system. Probably much better to have a look yourself than depending on someone else opinion. Regards, Cor Regards, Bernd Eilers Bernd, on the surface this prototype Impress looks fine to me ; that is to say, I would have no problem with such a GUI. I have yet to look at it so I'm expressing no opinion on that issue. But my experience with Impress in general is that it's difficult to get it to work right when, e g, opening pps files sent me as email attachments by others. For example, when I attempt to run a lovely pps presentation in homage to Vincent Van Gogh with the artist's paintings and music by Don Mclean in Impress (versions from OOo 3.0 to OOo-dev 3.2.0 m57 (Build:9422) , the audio doesn't work I found the same to be true with a different pps presentation. and I have to mouse-click or hit the space bar every time I wish to advance thé presentation. I started out this way but found that I could set it to change slides every n seconds and even to restart after m seconds. Since I, an impress novice, was able to find how to resolve this I don't think it is a show stopper -- merely an annoyance. -- Jim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
--On Wednesday, September 09, 2009 03:00:01 PM +0200 Per Joh perj...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. FWIW Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list, ´cause it’s to much One Man Show here right now, Mr. Nooden barks at every tree in the forest, all the parks around him… And no one else but him is right… pretty tired to read all those remarkable – *in my opinion, but hey. I’ve been wrong other times* – stupid comments from Lars. I've given serious consideration to dumping all messages that Mr. Nooden posts or that are a response to ones that he posts. For a few hours recently I even automated the process of responding to his posts by sending him a message that his message had been deleted with extreme prejudice but decided that this was too rude a step to take. We could burn up the internet with an automated flame war by doing that. Not good! :-[ As has been stated, this list is not intended for this type of discussion and personal, abusive, attacks are not appropriate in any case. -- Jim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. Lemme guess, you were surprised each and every time Lucy didn't let Charlie Brown kick the football, right? Regards -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. FWIW Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list, ´cause it’s to much One Man Show here right now, Mr. Nooden barks at every tree in the forest, all the parks around him… And no one else but him is right… pretty tired to read all those remarkable – *in my opinion, but hey. I’ve been wrong other times* – stupid comments from Lars. I thought this list was for helping users who needed help with OO.o, but apparently I was wrong. It seems that this list is a tool for be rude to other peoples… AND yes, Lars. I know your answer… It´s bullshit from me, it´s a quacking duck talking in this mail, but in my ears – and I´m pretty sure – in some others ears in this list.. your talk is also BS. I will pop in some other time, but for now... cheers and good luck with all bullshit and ducks and all the other insults coming from a particular way. // Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Per Joh wrote: Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list Be sure to unsubscribe. Welcome back at a future date when you are ready to improve OOo or understand what 'learning curve' means: http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2006/02/microsoft_offic.html Regards, -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Per Joh wrote: 2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. FWIW Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list, ´cause it’s to much One Man Show here right now, Mr. Nooden barks at every tree in the forest, all the parks around him… And no one else but him is right… pretty tired to read all those remarkable – *in my opinion, but hey. I’ve been wrong other times* – stupid comments from Lars. I thought this list was for helping users who needed help with OO.o, but apparently I was wrong. It seems that this list is a tool for be rude to other peoples… AND yes, Lars. I know your answer… It´s bullshit from me, it´s a quacking duck talking in this mail, but in my ears – and I´m pretty sure – in some others ears in this list.. your talk is also BS. I will pop in some other time, but for now... cheers and good luck with all bullshit and ducks and all the other insults coming from a particular way. // Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org +1 -- Gene Y. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this: http://webwereld.nl/gallery/63487/openoffice-kiest-ribbon-combinatie--foto-s-.html (Mind, #2 is not 0.16 - this slide shows the choices in the prototype-app) Nice publication indeed. Just a quick heads up to those who have so far seen only remarks or screenshots on mailinglists, blogs and websites. The prototype application can still be started via java webstart from within a browser using the following URL http://tools.services.openoffice.org/impressprototype/impressprototype.jnlp Prerequisite is that you have java 1.5 installed on your system. Probably much better to have a look yourself than depending on someone else opinion. Regards, Cor Regards, Bernd Eilers - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
2009/9/9 Bernd Eilers bernd.eil...@sun.com Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this: http://webwereld.nl/gallery/63487/openoffice-kiest-ribbon-combinatie--foto-s-.html (Mind, #2 is not 0.16 - this slide shows the choices in the prototype-app) Nice publication indeed. Just a quick heads up to those who have so far seen only remarks or screenshots on mailinglists, blogs and websites. The prototype application can still be started via java webstart from within a browser using the following URL http://tools.services.openoffice.org/impressprototype/impressprototype.jnlp Prerequisite is that you have java 1.5 installed on your system. Probably much better to have a look yourself than depending on someone else opinion. Regards, Cor Regards, Bernd Eilers Bernd, on the surface this prototype Impress looks fine to me ; that is to say, I would have no problem with such a GUI. But my experience with Impress in general is that it's difficult to get it to work right when, e g, opening pps files sent me as email attachments by others. For example, when I attempt to run a lovely pps presentation in homage to Vincent Van Gogh with the artist's paintings and music by Don Mclean in Impress (versions from OOo 3.0 to OOo-dev 3.2.0 m57 (Build:9422) , the audio doesn't work and I have to mouse-click or hit the space bar every time I wish to advance thé presentation. Consequently, if I want to enjoy this presentation the way it is meant to be enjoyed, I have to boot into a Windows OS and run it from Powerpoint. If I remember correctly, NoOp has posted on how one can modify the Impress settings to get the sound to work properly, but most users, I suspect, will - if they can afford it - instead choose MS Office and run presentations like this one «out of the box». Improvements in the GUI are not to be sneezed at, but improving functionality must, I think, be the developers' first priority, even if it's not always as much fun Henri
[users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
On 2009/09/09 7:00 AM Per Joh wrote: I thought this list was for helping users who needed help with OO.o, but apparently I was wrong. It seems that this list is a tool for be rude to other peoples… Yes. It is supposed to be about helping users. Discussions like this one should have been moved to the discuss list. disc...@openoffice.org gmane.comp.openoffice.general -- Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
Tommy, aka Dingo-Dog from Italy is the same person who lauched the petition. He tries to raise attention for the advertised Open Office scam. wrong supposition. we are 2 different users. dingo-dog started the petition, while i'm just promoting in forums and blogs -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Petition-against-OOo-Renaissance-tp25228803p25374348.html Sent from the openoffice - users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this: http://webwereld.nl/gallery/63487/openoffice-kiest-ribbon-combinatie--foto-s-.html Not so friendly. It's the ribbon all over again. UI work is needed, we know that without the survey. However, specifics are needed and this Microsoft-style solution-in-search-of-a-problem is bullshit. (Poo on your virgin ears) The survey points to no specifics: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:OOoUserSurvey2009_Final.ods In fact, there seems to be general satisfaction with the product and its components. How about a survey asking what is missing or what could be improved. the ribbon by any other name is still a failed attempt at contextual menus. Even assuming deIcaza shares some of the magic M$ pixie dust and we all become so stoned, stupid or soporiphic that everything seems fine with contextual menus, where will the processing cycles come from? OOo, IMHO, is not slow but it sure is not fast. User experience could be very much improved by removing or reducing the latency. There have been *lots* of suggestions over the years, especially in regards to performance. Adding slow stuff will not make OOo faster. Regards -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
M Henri Day wrote: I should have nothing against an updating to the OOo GUI, but I can't help thinking that it's what's under the hood that is most important. Still, we - the developers - do have to keep in mind that new users to OOo are often going to have a background in MS Office 2007 and later, rather than in versions 1997 -2003 Oh bullshit again. Just because a small cluster of deIcaza types wants OOo to stop UI work, turn around and spend effort copying MSO simply because it's MSO, doesn't mean we should. Copying is stupid. Copying failure is more stupid. M$ has virtually made a trademark of suckitude. Don't go the route of trademark infringement. Quick quiz: Q: What is the goal of OOo? a) a deIcaza-style M$ love-in, dutifully copying every aspect of MSO b) providing a good productivity suite Updating the UI is very good idea. Updating without specific goals is a waste of resources. Updating it to copy a failure is not very nice to those who wish to use OOo. If the ideal is more general, improvement of the User Experience, then it may not be UI work that is needed so much as streamlining and modularization. Faster program == more ( enjoyable productive ). Regards -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
2009/9/8 NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net On 09/08/2009 09:04 AM, M Henri Day wrote: ... PS : Thanks for the remark about «delcaza types» - uninitiated as I am, I'm not sure I follow, but I choose to take it as a compliment !... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza Gnome rocks! :-) I suppose that Lars may have been referring to the Mono project? KDE/QT, Gnome/Mono, etc., but that's another thread for another list. For this relief much thanks, Gary ! What a difference a space makes - and the distinction between an «l» and an «I» ! I, too, like Gnome Henri
[users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
On 09/08/2009 09:04 AM, M Henri Day wrote: ... PS : Thanks for the remark about «delcaza types» - uninitiated as I am, I'm not sure I follow, but I choose to take it as a compliment !... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza Gnome rocks! :-) I suppose that Lars may have been referring to the Mono project? KDE/QT, Gnome/Mono, etc., but that's another thread for another list. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
2009/9/8 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org M Henri Day wrote: I should have nothing against an updating to the OOo GUI, but I can't help thinking that it's what's under the hood that is most important. Still, we - the developers - do have to keep in mind that new users to OOo are often going to have a background in MS Office 2007 and later, rather than in versions 1997 -2003 Oh bullshit again. Just because a small cluster of deIcaza types wants OOo to stop UI work, turn around and spend effort copying MSO simply because it's MSO, doesn't mean we should. Copying is stupid. Copying failure is more stupid. M$ has virtually made a trademark of suckitude. Don't go the route of trademark infringement. Quick quiz: Q: What is the goal of OOo? a) a deIcaza-style M$ love-in, dutifully copying every aspect of MSO b) providing a good productivity suite Updating the UI is very good idea. Updating without specific goals is a waste of resources. Updating it to copy a failure is not very nice to those who wish to use OOo. If the ideal is more general, improvement of the User Experience, then it may not be UI work that is needed so much as streamlining and modularization. Faster program == more ( enjoyable productive ). Regards -Lars Lars, before characterising your fellow users' posting as «bullshit», you might want to consider reading them more carefully. Nowhere in my post above do I suggest that the MS «ribbon» or other elements of their GUI should be copied - as I point out, it's what's under the hood - which to me, at least, includes such matters as the streamlining and modularisation you mention - that matters. When I read your statement to the effect that «Faster program == more ( enjoyable productive )», the impression I get is that we, in fact, are in substantial agreement. At the same time, given MS's present dominance of the field, we are going to have to take into account that many who will be considering whether or not to install OOo will have an MS Office background, a fact which should have consequences for the design of the former. You seem to have interpreted this as a suggestion that OOo «copy» MSO, but that was not at all my point, which was rather that we have to offer a *better*, more user-friendly alternative then the legacy maker, in which such aspects as speed and simplicity of use certainly play an important role. Again, from what you write, you seem to agree with this. These are, of course, the goals of any update - but to make them operational we must, as you point out, make them specific. Let us then discuss these specifics, instead of dismissing - and indeed, misrepresenting - others' opinions as «[u]pdating [OOo] to copy a failure». I, for one, would like to be able to change the language I'm inputting directly from the toolbar, instead of having to go via a menu. Perhaps if we confine ourselves to discussing such concrete matters, we'll not need to refer to each other in a manner which tends to wake opposition rather than cooperation Henri PS : Thanks for the remark about «delcaza types» - uninitiated as I am, I'm not sure I follow, but I choose to take it as a compliment !...
Re: [users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
There is no profit in copying failure. I, for one, moved to OOo after testing all the alternatives I could get hold of for spreadsheets and word processors. Even though I was used to MSO, it sucked donkey balls so badly that a change was needed in order to stay productive with reports and calculations. I'm glad to have left. I'm not glad for idiotic yammering that there is recently some kind of obligation to begin copying that crap. If you want to make progress on the OOo UI, then find some specifics to work on. It has already been mentioned that full mouseless operation is needed for the word processor and spreadsheet. That's one of the reasons you still find WordPerfect word processor floating around. Professional typists can use it quickly. + For the spreadsheet, that's a more mature tool and there are still characteristics and conventions that are legacies from Visicalc. + For the presentation graphics, Keynote is very relevant. I used the presentation graphics extensively for 2.5 years. It does what I needed, but there are many things that can be fixed, especially in slide sorting and managing templates. None of that can be address by finding new combinations of words to create the semantic equivalent of 'copying the ribbon' The survey really says almost nothing about what needs work. You'll notice that most of the questions were actually left unanswered. That goes especially for the - equation editor - draw - base - chart For those, a negligible amount of answers were turned in. Some aspects of these may be under-marketed. Or there may be showstoppers that turn people off. What will not work is the Microsoft-style solution -in -search -of -a -problem approach, especially the deIcaza sub-style where the apparent goal is copying crap with religious vigor. Regards -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
This is going to be in Swedish... Lars... är du den Lars som är namngiven som kontaktperson på den svenska delen av den Office-svit som vi använder... På den sidan så har e:et en fnutt över sig.. Det finns även e-post i denna lista från Lars och där är det även en fnutt över e:et Hur som haver... Jag tycker i alla fall det är en väldigt massa hårda ord och med alla dessa hårda ord ... bullshit-ande hit och dit och all annan bullshit som skrivs i upprörda? arga? förbannade? eller bara uppgivna svar och inlägg.. netiquette ??? vart tog det vägen ??? My few cents // Per Lars Nooden skrev: There is no profit in copying failure. I, for one, moved to OOo after testing all the alternatives I could get hold of for spreadsheets and word processors. Even though I was used to MSO, it sucked donkey balls so badly that a change was needed in order to stay productive with reports and calculations. I'm glad to have left. I'm not glad for idiotic yammering that there is recently some kind of obligation to begin copying that crap. If you want to make progress on the OOo UI, then find some specifics to work on. It has already been mentioned that full mouseless operation is needed for the word processor and spreadsheet. That's one of the reasons you still find WordPerfect word processor floating around. Professional typists can use it quickly. + For the spreadsheet, that's a more mature tool and there are still characteristics and conventions that are legacies from Visicalc. + For the presentation graphics, Keynote is very relevant. I used the presentation graphics extensively for 2.5 years. It does what I needed, but there are many things that can be fixed, especially in slide sorting and managing templates. None of that can be address by finding new combinations of words to create the semantic equivalent of 'copying the ribbon' The survey really says almost nothing about what needs work. You'll notice that most of the questions were actually left unanswered. That goes especially for the - equation editor - draw - base - chart For those, a negligible amount of answers were turned in. Some aspects of these may be under-marketed. Or there may be showstoppers that turn people off. What will not work is the Microsoft-style solution -in -search -of -a -problem approach, especially the deIcaza sub-style where the apparent goal is copying crap with religious vigor. Regards -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Per wrote: netiquette ??? vart tog det vägen ??? I have long been an advocate of netiquette. And I have grown up in a region, as well as community, where kids could and did get their mouths washed out with soap. My mouth remained soap-free FWIW. The bullshit (1) won't stop as long as people who know better either acquiesce, fold, back-down or simply hold quiet when they should speak up. Enough is enough, however. It needs to be called for what it is. If it hurts, or you actually wish to copy failed products, then tough, fork the code and go somewhere else. Politeness and naivite have been exploited for a long time. Yes, politeness is best, but let's stop these dickwhacks from walking all over the best FOSS projects. -Lars (1) for example: http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/tag/miguel-de-icaza/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Hi Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (8-9-2009 11:53) Not so friendly. It's the ribbon all over again. This really looks as if you have to wash your eyes. And/or try to learn that you cannot have truth on your side always. In your many (often useful) contributions, you show that you know for sure that everything that comes from Microsoft is bad. So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Sigh :-( Cor -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Lars Nooden skrev: Per wrote: netiquette ??? vart tog det vägen ??? I have long been an advocate of netiquette. And I have grown up in a region, as well as community, where kids could and did get their mouths washed out with soap. My mouth remained soap-free FWIW. The bullshit (1) won't stop as long as people who know better either acquiesce, fold, back-down or simply hold quiet when they should speak up. Enough is enough, however. It needs to be called for what it is. If it hurts, or you actually wish to copy failed products, then tough, fork the code and go somewhere else. *Yepp, I have to think over it, but maybe I should do it go somewhere else. * Politeness and naivite have been exploited for a long time. Yes, politeness is best, but let's stop these dickwhacks from walking all over the best FOSS projects. -Lars (1) for example: http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/tag/miguel-de-icaza/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
It would appear that on Sep 7, M Henri Day did say: I should have nothing against an updating to the OOo GUI, but I can't help thinking that it's what's under the hood that is most important. Still, we - the developers - do have to keep in mind that new users to OOo are often going to have a background in MS Office 2007 and later, rather than in versions 1997 -2003 Hello Henri, I don't usually get embroiled in this kind of discussion. But then again I don't usually think the developers of most software would actually listen to me... And I have only just so much time to use my computer before it begins to irritate my sweet lady, thus I really can't spend enough time on it to do it justice... Yes, it seems obvious to me that most new users to OOo are more likely to know more about how to use the current version of Microshaft products than those with more practical UIs like the current OOo Which while it's not by any means perfect, is likely better as it is than anything MS is likely to release in my lifetime. Still even though it's arguably better than Whatever MS is currently doing, many of those new users will blow it off as junk simply because it doesn't feel enough like what they're used to. But there are also a large number of existing OOo users who are just as used to how the current OOo UI works and I suspect many of us will be frustrated by any changes made to make OOo's UI more comfortable for the MS refugees. So I'd like to suggest a few general things. 1) As much as possible make sure any changes to OOo's basic UI concepts include configuration option(s) that allow those users who don't like the changes to revert to the classic UI style. 2) Allow for both item by item (where feasible) toggling of new UI features vs Old style, And an easy quick No brainer UI toggle that's at least as easy to do as the way KDE4 lets you switch back to the classic menu style... 3) Try to avoid changes in the interface just for the sake of eye candy. Aside from that I'd have to say that Lars made a point in his reply from which I quote: It would appear that on Sep 8, Lars Nooden did say: If you want to make progress on the OOo UI, then find some specifics to work on. It has already been mentioned that full mouseless operation is needed for the word processor and spreadsheet. That's one of the reasons you still find WordPerfect word processor floating around. Professional typists can use it quickly. I'm sure that there are a number of things that haven't been fixed in the old interface yet. (And while I'm hardly a professional typist, I for one would very much like to see ALL software include provision for full mouseless operation, because as bad as my typing is, my rodent skills are exponentially worse.) I really don't know if these two items are already covered or not but: I'd like to see the help documentation include keyboard method instructions for everything that there is a click on this, right click on that... type of instruction. There is a useful tool for mouse oriented users called the format paintbrush It is possible to define a keyboard shortcut to do the same thing as clicking on the toolbar icon. One can even add a menu item for it. But the act of pasting the format info can only be done with the mouse. As a user who has great difficulty getting the mouse to point where I want it to, I would greatly appreciate it if this tool could be configured to use keyboard marking of the target for pasting via a shortcut key rather than a click... But then again, this last item should be covered under the suggestion Lars mentioned about full mouseless operation... Well anyway that's my 2 cents worth on the subject... -- | --- ___ | 0 - Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P |~\___/~ jtw...@ttlc.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
M Henri Day wrote: 2009/9/6 Mathias Bauer nospamfor...@gmx.de Lars Nooden wrote: Stop fucking around. EOD for me. All your contributions to this discussion where full of allegations, insinuations and now insults. Not my style. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to nospamfor...@gmx.de. I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. I find it sad when our most knowledgeable contributors lose their cool over an issue vital to the development of OOo. Let us try to deal with each other with the same respect and consideration we should like others to show us I'm not sure whom you are talking about. But let me put it this way: I'm reading a lot of mailing lists in our project (I didn't count them, but it must be around 16 or so). On most of them I'm just lurking, and of course I'm not reading each and every mail (that wouldn't leave me much time for working on the program ;-)). Casually I find some posts where I think I could give some help or information, so I jumped in here. I invested several hours to explain what I have seen as the problem that a part of Renaissance wants to address with what the prototype demonstrated. (Yes, Renaissance it not only about that, though it's an important part of it.) I not even tried to push people in any direction wrt. the prototype, I just explained, gave some background and asked people for qualified feedback (and the UX people working on Renaissance offer a lot of different ways to give it). I even tried to keep my personal taste out of the discussion (except when explicitly asked for it). I will continue to discuss with people that are interested in an objective discussion, but I don't see a reason to reply to insults (politician's talk, fucking around), though I had asked for objectivity not only once. And this comprises facts as well as style of discussion. Insults usually are a sign of helplessness, so you might ask why I care about that a lot, they at least prove that the insulters failed to prove that I'm wrong. The reason is simple: I lack the time for playing such games. I wasn't out for a flame war, I just wanted to give information. But it's not only about me. The UX people working on Renaissance have put their entire heart into the project and cared a lot for community involvement. There have been many public chats, blogs and mails about Renaissance and the UX people worked very hard to keep that going and collect and incorporate the feedback. They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. I understand that some people are not pleased by what they saw in the prototype, but there is no reason to get so personal about that. I'm sure the UX team will listen to every qualified and reasonable feedback they receive. Regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to nospamfor...@gmx.de. I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance
James Knott wrote: Some people feel the need to fix something that isn't broken. A similar situation is developing with the Linux KDE desktop, where apparently eye candy has become more important than function. Exactly! And while we're at it, why did they wreck Amarok? -- Pierre Worrigee, NSW, ,-._|\ / Oz \ \_,--._/ v The boys dressed themselves, hid their accoutrements, and went off grieving that there were no outlaws any more, and wondering what modern civilization could claim to have done to compensate for their loss. They said they would rather be outlaws a year in Sherwood Forest than President of the United States forever. Mark Twain's Adventures of Tom Sawyer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars But what if it sings like a nightingale? We haven't heard it yet, the prototype was clearly not the finished voice or anywhere close, just a way to get feedback. The main issues seem to be use of screen real estate (which should be kept to a minimum) and the ability to turn it off and use the old menu structure easily, and Mathias has clearly been pushing those issues himself. I think most of us start off with a serious mistrust for anything that attempts to predict what we want (a la Clippy and its kin), because it's *so* much easier to do wrong than right. But even Ribbon has its avid fans (I'm not one of them!), and anything that reduces the learning curve for newbies, and for experienced users trying a new or infrequently used capability, can be a serious advantage for OOo in the market. So I'm willing to wait and see. Should be a lot of fun trying to write the help and other documentation, though! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)
Barbara Duprey wrote: Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars But what if it sings like a nightingale? We haven't heard it yet, the prototype was clearly not the finished voice or anywhere close, just a way to get feedback. The main issues seem to be use of screen real estate (which should be kept to a minimum) and the ability to turn it off and use the old menu structure easily, and Mathias has clearly been pushing those issues himself. I think most of us start off with a serious mistrust for anything that attempts to predict what we want (a la Clippy and its kin), because it's *so* much easier to do wrong than right. But even Ribbon has its avid fans (I'm not one of them!), and anything that reduces the learning curve for newbies, and for experienced users trying a new or infrequently used capability, can be a serious advantage for OOo in the market. So I'm willing to wait and see. Should be a lot of fun trying to write the help and other documentation, though! Well I must say there is one aspect where I like the analogy with the duck. Because there is that fairytale of the ugly duck which than later turned out to have grown up and was than realizing that it wasn´t an ugly duck but a beautiful swan. Thus I would like to encourage everyone to look forward into the future and see what we all could do to enhance the UserInterface of OOo and to also have a deeper look into the prototype than only applying prejudice of ugly duckniness. There are more aspects tested in the prototype than you might have seen with a first and quick only look onto it. For example there is the aspect of a different SlideSorterView which includes a live-editing-feature shown where also dragdrop of objects between the slides is possible in this mode and than there is the aspect of a different visualisation and user interaction for what is called Masterpages in Impress. Kind regards, Bernd Eilers - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
