Exactly where in my posts did I say I create web sites in the style
of my friend?
On 12/4/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
None of those. I just mentioned that I was unable to convice my
friend to change his ways and his strongest reason not to was his
(fairly complicated) site
Sorry, if it seemed like I implied that, but even if you don't, just
the experience of the pain of having to maintain that sort of code
would eliminate any thought of reverting to the old school way of
making web sites.
On 12/5/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Exactly where in my posts
No problem, Ben. Believe me I would never revert to the old way.
I guess I was just surprised to see how well my friend's site worked
in 7 or 8 different MAC win browsers with such outdated code.
Sorry, if it seemed like I implied that, but even if you don't, just
the experience of the pain
Christian Montoya wrote:
Tables + tag soup = hacking. Your friend really needs to get with it.
Validation is not the main issue, it's accessibility. Speed is
important too. If you can convince him to use CSS (if you can't, you
have a lot to learn too, or he is dumb) then he will want to get
Lachlan,
By far, the most important issue facing beginners with regards to
standards is the separation of semantics, presentation and
behavioural layers into well structured, valid, non-presentational
markup; CSS and javascript, respectively, and it sounds like you've
already made
On 05/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just to be clear I've understood a concept you mention above, could
you show an example of javascript used as layered, non-presentational
markup and one that is not?
a) a href=javascript:myfunction();Link/a
b) a href=page.html
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Lachlan,
By far, the most important issue facing beginners with regards to
standards is the separation of semantics, presentation and behavioural
layers into well structured, valid, non-presentational markup; CSS and
javascript, respectively, and it sounds like you've
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:53:30 -0500, Jay Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
When I first started really getting into web design I began with DW
To be clear, and get back to editors, I posted in favor of DW8. That's
with an _8_. And mentioned I use it in code-view only. But, I also
Michael Donnermeyer wrote:
TextPattern works well, particularly now that they've released a final
version. I used WordPress up until v.1.5 due to TXP being in beta and
RC versions, but have since slowly switched to TXP for all my sites.
The only site I can think of at the moment that is
Dear CSS Listers:
in another thread, someone essentially asked why code like this, in
trying to convince a friend. I don't think he's getting very good
answers but at any rate, it made me think of a problem I'm having and
I've decided to make a new thread.
A non-profit that i've maintained
Artemis ink wired:
Could you pretty please elaborate on rubbish?
I mean, I know what you're saying, but I am
curious as to what code Frontpage and Dreamweaver
puts out that is rubbish.
Like many M$ tools, FrontPage assumes that it is smarter than you are and
puts non-standard items into
I tell my clients that the only way you can measure if your website
(code wise) is any good is by using the industrial standards set by the
W3 and the validators. This also means that if you can't maintain the
site anymore any semi skilled coder should be able to take over. Not
very likely
Kim Kruse wrote:
I tell my clients that the only way you can measure if your website
(code wise) is any good is by using the industrial standards set by the
W3 and the validators. This also means that if you can't maintain the
site anymore any semi skilled coder should be able to take over.
Hi Donna,
That's why I mention the measure thingy and industrial standards. I
get the feeling that's something companies appreciate from a business
point of view.
Kim, I've tried that (they have no idea what the W3C is or validators
or why it matters and don't want to learn) and it doesn't
Donna,
That's why I mention the measure thingy and industrial standards. I
get the feeling that's something companies appreciate from a business
point of view.
Several of my coworkers and I recently gave a talk on when we chose to use
Web standards (and when we didn't). We created a handout
use for callender creates
-
Donna,
That's why I mention the measure thingy and industrial standards. I
get the feeling that's something companies appreciate from a business
point of view.
Several of my coworkers and I recently gave a talk on when we chose to use
Web standards (and
Hi,
I seem to be having a problem with a CSS drop down list box, it isn't
properly floating over the content below it.
http://www.compassdesigns.net/4corners/photoessay2.html
If anyone could take a look and offer some help, that would be great!!
Barrie North
Compass Design
Donna,This is where you really need to be thinking in terms of what the customer wants.So it's the hippest, coolest, latest code - so what? They really don't care - and shouldn't care.Come up with points that assist them - as Kim was saying, show where your 'methods' (and you don't really need
I'm going to have to name drop my article again here :)
http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php
Samuel
adam reitsma wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Donna,
That's why I mention the
In my own experience, I find myself using the house analogy again and
again when it comes to websites and getting points across to clients.
There's a code for what is considered a good building. You cannot gain
a certificate of occupancy with passing code.
You CAN launch a site without
adam reitsma wrote:
- If there's a change to your site that you could forsee (for
instance, color scheme change, slight layout change, etc), outline the
time (=money) savings in changing your code, vs theirs.
I think this is the top point. Sure, the tag soup option may look good
now, but
Some articles:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/csstalking/
http://www.graphicpush.com/index.php?id=49
http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000266.php
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/reference/web_standards_for_business.html
http://www.websitegoodies.com/article/38
At least, I think it shouldn't. It doesn't in Firefox anyway, but IE is insisting on not sliding under my banner properly.
Have a look at http://www.renovate.com.au
The issue arises when you view it at 800x600 or so. In Firefox, it all
works nicely and the out-hanging tab in the bottom row
G'day Donna,
The continuing fight against the incompetent and uncaring! Would they
allow their children to play with toys that didn't meet Australian
Safety Standards (or whatever country you're in)? Then why have a site
that doesn't meet world standards for web design?
Regards,
Ric
The processes of building a site with standards cool.
Best practices that cover every stage from
planning to customer sign off that can be found on
this lists posts and moderators/members sites.
For me it makes job turnaround smoother and quicker.
On 06/12/2005, at 1:01 AM, Donna Jones wrote:
I need to be able to explain, by looking at the surface, the
difference between standards coding versus you-know-what.
Another point: standards based markup is lighter - their overall
bandwidth will be lower, meaning they can buy the cheaper
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:
You CAN launch a site without passing code, but there are groups that
are working together to enforce the integrity of the code.
And which groups would those be? And what authority do they have over
the site? Here's where the analogy may well fall apart, rather
Hi
They are a PR firm, so they will respond to $$ arguments. I suggest you
build two compliant pages, of exactly the same html code and re-present
them differently using CSS (like floats, PDA style. Show this to them,
flick between the two explaining how both sites can use the same
backend and
Through foresight, i already know this will be a very pitiful question to
real web designers, so bear with me.I was having some trouble finding out why, whenever I call for document.getElementById(id), it returns null (even if there is a valid id-matching element). Consider something simple, like
It's because the code is being executed before the tags with the
matching ids are created.
On 12/6/05, Chris Lamberson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Through foresight, i already know this will be a very pitiful question to
real web designers, so bear with me.
I was having some trouble finding out
The
_javascript_ that's assigning the behavior to your elements is completing before
the elements are in the dom. Try putting your _javascript_ code in a
function and calling that function with window.onload like
this:
script
type="text/_javascript_"
window.> function
do() { var toggle
G'day
I was having some trouble finding out why, whenever I call for
document.getElementById(id), it returns null (even if there is a valid
id-matching element). Consider something simple, like this:
The javascript runs as the page loads. At that point, the
elements with the ids do not yet
Additionally to the points already mentioned by others, one very good reason
for coding in standards is to ensure the website will last a long time.
I am sure the organisation you are talking about will not want to create a
new website in a few years time. Show them some of the many websites that
What browser are you using?
That should work on most of them, but Internet Explorer has a
mis-feature were it does something really wierd. I think what it does is
assigns elements with id's to variables with the id's name. I'm not sure
though, I haven't tested it out enough.
The consequence
Nevermind, ignore what I said, Bert is right. Although IE may misbehave
as well, it seems pretty inconsitent and buggy.
On Tue, 2005-12-06 at 09:21 +0800, Bert Doorn wrote:
G'day
I was having some trouble finding out why, whenever I call for
document.getElementById(id), it returns null
The analogy is quite simple...
If there weren't codes to set guidelines for best practices when
constructing homes, what kind of homes would most people have?
People have been building sites for years now and have no idea that
guidelines even exist, let alone take steps to meet them and be
Chris Lamberson wrote:
I think that's the problem I had on both
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/tmp/dpi-broken.html and
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/dpi-screen-window.html in certain
development builds of Gecko recently until I got some help with a
workaround now found in the latter but not
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:
That's the point. That's why they want to have someone build a site for
them that has a clue about this stuff. The day WILL come when there is
a governing body over the net. There WAS a day when housing codes DID
NOT exist and were being worked on and accepted.
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:
That's the point. That's why they want to have someone build a site
for them that has a clue about this stuff. The day WILL come when
there is a governing body over the net. There WAS a day when housing
codes DID NOT exist and were being
The web is intrinsically anarchous to some extent, occasioned in no
small part by individual publishers not beholden to any particular
standard (or even aware of them) -- Geocities users have no incentive
to make their site accessed by a few friends 'standards compliant' if
that increases the
Web standards
So assuming you want to make a case to a client
Strategy 1
Yes, accessibility, W3C, design for the future, screen readers, more elegant
code, blah blah blah
Try this and you will be sounding like the teacher in the Charlie Brown
cartoons I feel
Strategy 2
Do you want to save 20%
The building codes analogy is one I often use myself, but as pointed out
already, it does fall flat when asked for the governing bodies that are
policing the web.
When faced with a client/agency/designer that doesn't (want to/need to)
understand the 'technical' aspects (bandwidth, ease of
Thanks :)
I had tried Dreamweaver many moons ago, but I detested it and had a
hard time finding my way around in it. I purchased Frontpage 2003 when
it came out and really fell in love with it. But, since I've been
playing with WordPress I am learning a bit more about validation and
XHTML
On 06/12/2005, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Street wrote:
We can get upset about how they're locking out users with PDAs and
mobile devices and hence potential customers, but that remains a
DECISION made by someone, for whatever reason. Not neccessarily an
informed and intelligent decision, but one
G'day
Dollars and cents is the language that will convince most, if not all,
sceptics.
The problem I face in that regard is that a lot of sales
enquiries I get are from people who want to maintain their own
site, for next to nothing.
They don't want to spend money on a content management
Donna Jones said:
A non-profit that i've maintained the website for for 8 years or so has
recently...hired a PR firm.
Why do the PR firm think they should maintain the site and not you?
Have they put forward any compelling reasons why they are better qualified
to look after a web site? Get
Do you really want those customers who want to maintain their pages in
Frontage only to load up your design with unoptimized images, tables
and tag sludge? You put this site in your portfolio and a prospect goes
to visit your butchered site. These clients are also the worst for
taking up too
I've only recently joined this group and I find this an interesting
discussion because it is a daily challenge for designers who are
desperately trying to do the right thing. I'm sure we would all love to
see the back of the cowboys in the industry who throw a Frontpage site
together with no
On 12/5/05, Ric Jude Raftis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The question is, how many designers include icons and links on their
sites back to W3C for XHTML and CSS? How many include an icon for
Accessibility? Personally, I don't have all my sites Triple A
compliant, but they do pass automated
Terrence and all: thank you for all your replies.
Lea said she thought accessibility was my strongest suit and I agree
with that. At least font-size increase is something that can be seen
on the surface, and perhaps other accessibility issues that I haven't
thought about. I did think today
Donna Jones wrote:
... I'm afraid the budget is eaten up by the PR firm and so the NP is
feeling badly that I'm in the position, once again, of donating a
lot of my time. Ideally, in their view, i think, they'd like for me
to say, yes, the PR's code is great and groovy and I'll continue
On 06/12/2005, at 4:48 PM, Peter J. Farrell wrote:
In the end, I felt very used as a volunteer. I recommend that
anybody who volunteers for a non-profit, discuss ownership of code/
designs when you volunteer. I was happy that I was able put a co-
copyright on the website and in files. If
Peter J. Farrell wrote:
Donna Jones wrote:
... I'm afraid the budget is eaten up by the PR firm and so the NP is
feeling badly that I'm in the position, once again, of donating a
lot of my time. Ideally, in their view, i think, they'd like for me
to say, yes, the PR's code is great and
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