aloha, david! i have a BIG problem with the rewording because it warps both the semantic meaning of the "note" role in ARIA and the ASIDE element in HTML5, which is analagous to ARIA's "complementary" role
ARIA defines "note" as: QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#note"; A section whose content is parenthetic or ancillary to the main content of the resource UNQUOTE ARIA defines "complementary" as: QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#complementary"; A supporting section of the document, designed to be complementary to the main content at a similar level in the DOM hierarchy, but remains meaningful when separated from the main content. There are various types of content that would appropriately have this role. For example, in the case of a portal, this may include but not be limited to show times, current weather, related articles, or stocks to watch. The complementary role indicates that contained content is relevant to the main content. If the complementary content is completely separable main content, it may be appropriate to use a more general role. User agents SHOULD treat elements with the role of complementary as navigational landmarks. UNQUOTE HTML5 defines ASIDE as: QUOTE cite="http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/sections.html#the-aside-element"; The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography. The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other content that is considered separate from the main content of the page. It's not appropriate to use the aside element just for parentheticals, since those are part of the main flow of the document. UNQUOTE re-read that last sentence in the ASIDE definition -- "It's not appropriate to use the aside element just for parentheticals, since those are part of the main flow of the document." i believe this CLEARLY illustrates that the ROLE_NOTE is INAPPROPRIATE for content which should be contained in an ASIDE or assigned a role of "complementary" -- a note, on the other hand, contains information that is parenthetical to the string of content with which it is associated -- the user should be able to set her AT so that anything marked as "note" can either be expanded inline, jumped-to via a linking mechanism or ignored altogether, but a "note" is a commentary on the text which -- taken in isolation -- is pretty ambiguous compared to text marked as "complementary" or witin the ASIDE element -- that text, while it supports the "main" text, can be read in isolation without reference to the "main" text -- in other words, self-contained blocks of structured content which can be read in isolation, in tandem with the "main" content, or ignored, per user need aplogies for SHOUTING about this, but i think this is a critical issue if the IA2_ROLE_NOTE is to be implemented correctly to allow users to choose exposition options for actual notes (referrential or annotative) -- the IA2_ROLE_NOTE should NOT be considered the analogue to the HTML5 element ASIDE (whose closest ARIA analogue is "complementary") but is an essential part of offering users the richest, most customizable means of obtaining all of the information contained in the document, gregory. ---------------------------------------------------- The optimist thinks that this is the best of all possible worlds; the pessimist knows it is. ---------------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita: [email protected] Vice-Chair & Webmaster, Open Accessibility Workgroup http://a11y.org/ http://a11y.org/specs/ ---------------------------------------------------- ---------- Original Message ----------- From: David Bolter <[email protected]> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE > Thanks Rich, > > Is anyone opposed to changing the definition to: "A section that > provides complementary information" ? > > Cheers, > David > > On 16/11/10 10:32 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > > > > That is the appropriate role for aside. > > > > > > Rich Schwerdtfeger > > CTO Accessibility Software Group > > > > Inactive hide details for david bolter ---11/15/2010 05:55:01 > > PM---Well, I think I'm looking for approval to expose the html asdavid > > bolter ---11/15/2010 05:55:01 PM---Well, I think I'm looking for > > approval to expose the html aside element with an IA2 note role (in ge > > > > From: david bolter <[email protected]> > > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]> > > Cc: [email protected], > > [email protected], > > [email protected] > > Date: 11/15/2010 05:55 PM > > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Well, I think I'm looking for approval to expose the html aside > > element with an IA2 note role (in gecko). > > > > It might be problematic to use a brand new role for FF4 since we are > > API frozen. > > > > Cheers, > > D > > > > On Nov 15, 2010 4:20 PM, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > aloha, brian! > > > > > > please refer to my resend of my reply to david: > > > > > > > > _https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2010-November/001235.html_ > > > > > > for my complete post -- as for using the brackets, that isn't > > > semantically marking the text as relating to/glossing the quote, but > > > not part of the quote -- designating a voice characteristics change > > > for everything in brackets is a rather "gross" tool for this task, > > > similar to having a voice chars switch for quotation marks, which are > > > used for a lot more than quotations -- for example, i use CSS to put > > > text in emphasis quotes by assigning the text to be encased in > > > air-quotes the element EM > > > > > > for more detailed musings (by me and others) on what is lacking in > > > HTML5's quote element, consult the HTML WG wiki page: > > > > > > _http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MuchAdoAboutQ_ > > > > > > gregory. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, > > > as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them > > > with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Gregory J. Rosmaita, [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> > > > Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html_ > > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > > > From: Brian Cragun <[email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > Cc: [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>, > > > [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>, David Bolter > > > <[email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>>, > > [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> > > > Sent: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:05:42 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE > > > > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> Doesn't the demarcation in the text itself provide that context > > >> inherently? Anyone reading the text would assume that the > > >> brackets mean there is editor inserted comment. > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> > > >> Brian > > >> > > >> Brian Cragun > > >> IBM AbilityLab Consultant > > >> Human Ability & Accessibility Center > > >> _www.ibm.com/able_ <http://www.ibm.com/able>& _w3.ibm.com/able_ > > <http://w3.ibm.com/able> > > >> W:(720)-663-2801 H:(507)288-2437 > > >> > > >> From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > >> To: David Bolter <[email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>>, > > >> [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Cc: [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Date: 11/15/2010 01:48 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE > > >> Sent by: [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> > > >> aloha, david! > > >> > > >> actually, i'd argue that the problem is that the concept "note" > > >> is insufficient for all use cases: > > >> > > >> 1. there should be a means to distinguish between explanatory notes > > >> and referential notes; > > >> > > >> 2. there needs to be a means to convey within semantically demarcated > > >> quoted text, that a string of text added to contextualize the quote > > >> is not part of the original quote, but disambiguation text: > > >> > > >> <q>He [Robert E. Lee] was hamstrung by his [J.E.B. Stuart's] > > >> absence from the battlefield for the first two days of fighting, > > >> depriving him [Lee] of the up-to-date intelligence the calvary > > >> ordinarily provided.</q> > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, > > >> as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them > > >> with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Gregory J. Rosmaita, [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html_ > > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> ---------- Original Message ----------- > > >> From: David Bolter <[email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > >> To: [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 13:42:40 -0500 > > >> Subject: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE > > >> > > >> > Hi. > > >> > > > >> > I think this is the current description of the note role: > > >> > "An embedded note which is not visible until activated" > > >> > > > >> > I wonder if we could change it to: > > >> > "A section that provides complementary information" > > >> > > > >> > This would make it reusable for things like html:aside elements > > >> > and aria role="note". Thoughts? > > >> > > > >> > Cheers, > > >> > David > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > > >> > [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> > _https://lists.linux-_ <https://lists.linux-/> > > >> > _foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_ > > <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2> > > >> ------- End of Original Message ------- > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > > >> [email protected]_ > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> _https://lists.linux-_ <https://lists.linux-/> > > >> _foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_ > > <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2> > > > ------- End of Original Message ------- > > > _______________________________________________ > > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 > > ------- End of Original Message ------- _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list [email protected] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
