We could do a minor release, i.e. from 1.2 to 1.2.1 to add a new role
constant for IA2_ROLE_NOTE.
The other updates could include:
- add a new state, IA2_STATE_PINNED
- fix various doc bugs
Is there a deadline?
--
*Pete Brunet*
a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 238-6967 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), [email protected] (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
david bolter wrote:
>
> Thanks Gregory,
>
> It sounds like there are two problems.
>
> 1. My proposed description of the IA2_ROLE_NOTE.
> 2. What desktop role to use for <aside>.
>
> I'll gladly recind my proposed definition of the ia2 role given the
> semantic distinctions you point out.
>
> What should I do about #2?
>
> Cheers,
> D
>
> On Nov 22, 2010 2:39 PM, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > aloha, david!
> >
> > i have a BIG problem with the rewording because it warps both the
> > semantic meaning of the "note" role in ARIA and the ASIDE element
> > in HTML5, which is analagous to ARIA's "complementary" role
> >
> > ARIA defines "note" as:
> >
> > QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#note";
> > A section whose content is parenthetic or ancillary to the main
> > content of the resource
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> >
> > ARIA defines "complementary" as:
> >
> > QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#complementary";
> > A supporting section of the document, designed to be complementary to
> > the main content at a similar level in the DOM hierarchy, but remains
> > meaningful when separated from the main content.
> >
> > There are various types of content that would appropriately have this
> > role. For example, in the case of a portal, this may include but not
> > be limited to show times, current weather, related articles, or stocks
> > to watch. The complementary role indicates that contained content is
> > relevant to the main content. If the complementary content is
> > completely separable main content, it may be appropriate to use a more
> > general role.
> >
> > User agents SHOULD treat elements with the role of complementary as
> > navigational landmarks.
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> >
> > HTML5 defines ASIDE as:
> >
> > QUOTE
> cite="http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/sections.html#the-aside-element";
> > The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of
> content
> > that is tangentially related to the content around the aside
> element, and
> > which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are
> > often represented as sidebars in printed typography.
> >
> > The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or
> > sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other
> > content that is considered separate from the main content of the page.
> >
> > It's not appropriate to use the aside element just for parentheticals,
> > since those are part of the main flow of the document.
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> > re-read that last sentence in the ASIDE definition -- "It's not
> > appropriate to use the aside element just for parentheticals, since
> > those are part of the main flow of the document."
> >
> > i believe this CLEARLY illustrates that the ROLE_NOTE is INAPPROPRIATE
> > for content which should be contained in an ASIDE or assigned a role
> > of "complementary" -- a note, on the other hand, contains information
> > that is parenthetical to the string of content with which it is
> > associated -- the user should be able to set her AT so that anything
> > marked as "note" can either be expanded inline, jumped-to via a
> > linking mechanism or ignored altogether, but a "note" is a commentary
> > on the text which -- taken in isolation -- is pretty ambiguous compared
> > to text marked as "complementary" or witin the ASIDE element -- that
> > text, while it supports the "main" text, can be read in isolation
> > without reference to the "main" text -- in other words, self-contained
> > blocks of structured content which can be read in isolation, in tandem
> > with the "main" content, or ignored, per user need
> >
> > aplogies for SHOUTING about this, but i think this is a critical
> > issue if the IA2_ROLE_NOTE is to be implemented correctly to allow
> > users to choose exposition options for actual notes (referrential
> > or annotative) -- the IA2_ROLE_NOTE should NOT be considered the
> > analogue to the HTML5 element ASIDE (whose closest ARIA analogue
> > is "complementary") but is an essential part of offering users the
> > richest, most customizable means of obtaining all of the information
> > contained in the document, gregory.
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > The optimist thinks that this is the best of all
> > possible worlds; the pessimist knows it is.
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Gregory J. Rosmaita: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> > Vice-Chair & Webmaster, Open Accessibility Workgroup
> > http://a11y.org/ http://a11y.org/specs/
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: David Bolter <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Cc: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>,
> > [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>, "Gregory
> J. Rosmaita" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Sent: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:31:46 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE
> >
> >> Thanks Rich,
> >>
> >> Is anyone opposed to changing the definition to: "A section that
> >> provides complementary information" ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> David
> >>
> >> On 16/11/10 10:32 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> >> >
> >> > That is the appropriate role for aside.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> >> > CTO Accessibility Software Group
> >> >
> >> > Inactive hide details for david bolter ---11/15/2010 05:55:01
> >> > PM---Well, I think I'm looking for approval to expose the html
> asdavid
> >> > bolter ---11/15/2010 05:55:01 PM---Well, I think I'm looking for
> >> > approval to expose the html aside element with an IA2 note role
> (in ge
> >> >
> >> > From: david bolter <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > Cc: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>,
> >> > [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>,
> >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> > Date: 11/15/2010 05:55 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE
> >> > Sent by: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >
> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Well, I think I'm looking for approval to expose the html aside
> >> > element with an IA2 note role (in gecko).
> >> >
> >> > It might be problematic to use a brand new role for FF4 since we are
> >> > API frozen.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > D
> >> >
> >> > On Nov 15, 2010 4:20 PM, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
> >> > > aloha, brian!
> >> > >
> >> > > please refer to my resend of my reply to david:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >
> _https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2010-November/001235.html_
> >> > >
> >> > > for my complete post -- as for using the brackets, that isn't
> >> > > semantically marking the text as relating to/glossing the
> quote, but
> >> > > not part of the quote -- designating a voice characteristics change
> >> > > for everything in brackets is a rather "gross" tool for this task,
> >> > > similar to having a voice chars switch for quotation marks,
> which are
> >> > > used for a lot more than quotations -- for example, i use CSS
> to put
> >> > > text in emphasis quotes by assigning the text to be encased in
> >> > > air-quotes the element EM
> >> > >
> >> > > for more detailed musings (by me and others) on what is lacking in
> >> > > HTML5's quote element, consult the HTML WG wiki page:
> >> > >
> >> > > _http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MuchAdoAboutQ_
> >> > >
> >> > > gregory.
> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
> >> > > as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them
> >> > > with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > Gregory J. Rosmaita, [email protected]_
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > > Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html_
> <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html_>
> >> > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html>
> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------- Original Message -----------
> >> > > From: Brian Cragun <[email protected]_
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> > > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> > > Cc: [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>,
> >> > > [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>, David
> Bolter
> >> > > <[email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>>,
> >> > [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > > Sent: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:05:42 -0600
> >> > > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE
> >> > >
> >> > >> Hi,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Doesn't the demarcation in the text itself provide that context
> >> > >> inherently? Anyone reading the text would assume that the
> >> > >> brackets mean there is editor inserted comment.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Regards,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Brian
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Brian Cragun
> >> > >> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> >> > >> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
> >> > >> _www.ibm.com/able_ <http://www.ibm.com/able_>
> <http://www.ibm.com/able>& _w3.ibm.com/able_ <http://w3.ibm.com/able_>
> >> > <http://w3.ibm.com/able>
> >> > >> W:(720)-663-2801 H:(507)288-2437
> >> > >>
> >> > >> From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <[email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> > >> To: David Bolter <[email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>,
> >> > >> [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> Cc: [email protected]_
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> Date: 11/15/2010 01:48 PM
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE
> >> > >> Sent by: [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> aloha, david!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> actually, i'd argue that the problem is that the concept "note"
> >> > >> is insufficient for all use cases:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 1. there should be a means to distinguish between explanatory
> notes
> >> > >> and referential notes;
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2. there needs to be a means to convey within semantically
> demarcated
> >> > >> quoted text, that a string of text added to contextualize the
> quote
> >> > >> is not part of the original quote, but disambiguation text:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> <q>He [Robert E. Lee] was hamstrung by his [J.E.B. Stuart's]
> >> > >> absence from the battlefield for the first two days of fighting,
> >> > >> depriving him [Lee] of the up-to-date intelligence the calvary
> >> > >> ordinarily provided.</q>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
> >> > >> as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them
> >> > >> with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> Gregory J. Rosmaita, [email protected]_
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html_
> <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html_>
> >> > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/index.html>
> >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> >> > >> From: David Bolter <[email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> > >> To: [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> Sent: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 13:42:40 -0500
> >> > >> Subject: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2_ROLE_NOTE
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > Hi.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I think this is the current description of the note role:
> >> > >> > "An embedded note which is not visible until activated"
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I wonder if we could change it to:
> >> > >> > "A section that provides complementary information"
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > This would make it reusable for things like html:aside elements
> >> > >> > and aria role="note". Thoughts?
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Cheers,
> >> > >> > David
> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > >> > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
> >> > >> > [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> > _https://lists.linux-_ <https://lists.linux-/>
> >> > >> > _foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
> <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_>
> >> > <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
> >> > >> ------- End of Original Message -------
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
> >> > >> [email protected]_
> >> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> > >> _https://lists.linux-_ <https://lists.linux-/>
> >> > >> _foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
> <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_>
> >> > <http://foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
> >> > > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
> >> > [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> > https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
> >> >
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
>
--
*Pete Brunet*
a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 238-6967 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), [email protected] (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
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