Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Gerard,

Not going to argue about that.  But there were several factors on our zhone equipment decision.  The main factor was when we started several years ago, those super cheap options didn't exist.  Not to mention we didn't have time to experiment.  A secondary factor was their location.  The have a manufacturing plant about an hour away from us.  To be 100% honest, we didn't know what the hell we were getting ourselves into when we started.  The security blanket of having zhone engineers that close to us to help us with any issues was very appealing.  We never have had to have an engineer come by, but I have used the phone support many of times.  Sometimes it was their issue, other mine.  But either way it was usually fixed within a day.  I'm to the point now, I just want crap to work.  If it doesn't work I want some guidance on how to make it work.  I'm getting lazy in my old age.  If I was 15 years younger and just starting out, I think I would give the ZTE stuff a try.  But we are all in on zhone, it works very well and I get the support I need to make me less grumpy over time.

--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 6:22:35 PM, you wrote:


Mark,

I'm willing to bet that ZTE or Huawei has more installed units than Zhone does by several orders of magnitude. Plus with the prices so cheap you can afford to have spares of everything.

Chuck,

I didn't see your detailed numbers for the AE deployment. What equipment are you using for that? Don't forget about space/power/cooling requirements for AE.

This C320 shelf only sips about 100 watts with 7-8 olt ports enabled.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown <
ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

It is $65 vs my $100 for AE.  

So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE.
And AE is much simpler.  
Arguably better too.  

There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that region of diminishing returns.  

Perhaps in a year I may change my mind.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night.

--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:


That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  

You are using this now?

From: Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To:
af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

32 port rackmount splitter. $84
https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.

You can use
www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)

I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

Gerard


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <
ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

ONT Housing (Clam Shell)
$           29.00
ONT
$         215.00
Unicam
$           15.00
Cyber Power
$           81.00
Cyber Install
$         110.00
House Sub Total
$         450.00


OLT $11K/8/32
$           42.97
OIM $845/32
$           38.27
Splitter $900/32
$           39.43
DLC per Sub Subtotal
$         120.67




Electronics/Sub Total Expense
$         570.67


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:
m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:
m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:
m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


------ Original Message ------
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <
m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <
af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

--
Best regards,
Mark                            
mailto:
m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


------ Original Message ------
From: "Josh Reynolds" <
j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To:
af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <
ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To:
af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <
af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To:
af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason

Reply via email to