Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIt is $65 vs my $100 for AE.  

So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE.
And AE is much simpler.  
Arguably better too.  

There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that 
region of diminishing returns.  

Perhaps in a year I may change my mind.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and most 
people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But, there is a 
point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at 
night.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

------

Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:


     That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  

      You are using this now?

      From: Gerard Dupont
      Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

      Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

      ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
      ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 
http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
      Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
      30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS 
https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
      20M $7.66
      10M $5.66
      Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

      ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 
$2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
      Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 
customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

      32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
      32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 
https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
      8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

      None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few 
hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

      Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per 
customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + 
$10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.

      You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring 
(tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)

      I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always 
overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to 
upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine 
both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they 
will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

      Gerard


      On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

           ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $           29.00  
                  ONT $         215.00  
                  Unicam $           15.00  
                  Cyber Power $           81.00  
                  Cyber Install $         110.00  
                  House Sub Total $         450.00  
                  
                  OLT $11K/8/32 $           42.97  
                  OIM $845/32 $           38.27  
                  Splitter $900/32 $           39.43  
                  DLC per Sub Subtotal $         120.67  
                  
                  
                  Electronics/Sub Total Expense $         570.67  


            From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
            Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
            To: Chuck McCown
            Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

            Chuck,

            Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class 
laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


            So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about 
$62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we 
are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are 
debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has 
some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major 
upgrade for several years.

            But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need 
to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not 
to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

            -- 
            Best regards,
            Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

            Myakka Technologies, Inc.
            www.MyakkaTech.com

            ------

            Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


                 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 
invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber 
and outdoor cabinets.  

                  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
                  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time 
convincing myself to do PON.  

                  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
                  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
                  To: Chuck McCown
                  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

                  Chuck,

                  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

                  -- 
                  Best regards,
                  Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

                  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
                  www.MyakkaTech.com

                  ------

                  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


                       Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross 
connect boxes?

                        From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
                        Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
                        To: Adam Moffett
                        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

                        Adam,

                        There are some ranging things you have to consider.  
"The requirement
                        when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between 
two ONTs cannot
                        exceed 20Km."

                        The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we 
travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

                        We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will 
splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were 
using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to 
ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

                        We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to 
optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on 
our ports.





                        -- 
                        Best regards,
                        Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

                        Myakka Technologies, Inc.
                        www.MyakkaTech.com

                        ------

                        Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


                             Maybe I need to review the math.

                              I was figuring on several small splitters along 
the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I 
brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus 
ethernet.


                              ------ Original Message ------
                              From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
<m...@mailmt.com>
                              To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
                              Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
                              Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


                                 Adam,

                                How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 
20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

                                -- 
                                Best regards,
                                Mark                            
mailto:m...@mailmt.com

                                Myakka Technologies, Inc.
                                www.MyakkaTech.com

                                ------

                                Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you 
wrote:


                                 I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses 
per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding 
that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 
or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

                                Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  
The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

                                I also figure if I install enough fibers for 
AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

                                We would never max out the PON port, but 
looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should 
ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll 
"never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.

                                -Adam


                                ------ Original Message ------
                                From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
                                To: af@afmug.com
                                Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
                                Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


                                 A few reasons...

                                Port cost is still fairly high.

                                More splicing.

                                More fiber required.

                                Larger chassis required.

                                More power required.

                                More battery backup required.

                                Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 
generations back of PON capacity in most places.

                                On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

                                 So, why do PON and not active in these super 
cheap optics days?

                                From: Chuck Hogg
                                Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
                                To: af@afmug.com
                                Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

                                We are walking away from them and Alphion...I 
think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

                                Regards,
                                Chuck

                                On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

                                 I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from 
DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far 
away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



                                -----
                                Mike Hammett
                                Intelligent Computing Solutions

                                Midwest Internet Exchange

                                The Brothers WISP





------------------------------------------------
                                From: "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
                                To: af@afmug.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
                                Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

                                In light of finding out that Calix's offering 
is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions? 

                                I found these guys, but have never heard of 
them:
                                
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116

                                It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've 
at least heard of them:
                                
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

                                -Jason 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                             
                       
                 
           
     

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