The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 635 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's <E36> Cluster Fun Re: <E36> Cluster Fun Re: <E36> Cluster Fun
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Apr 2005 12:10:00 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "low spot" = smallest radius? Curt Ingraham 72 2002tii Oakland, CA Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mount the tires properly. Have the old tires removed, bolt the wheels to > the front hub and use a dial indicator to measure the wheel runout. Mark > the low spot of each wheel. Have the tires mounted with the harmonic mark > (all new tires are marked) aligned with the low spot of the wheel. > Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:44:16 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Not exactly. Its the low point of the first harmonic of the radial force variation as the tire is rolled at a fixed radius. It might be the smallest radius, or it might be the softest spot, or a combination of the two. Gary Derian > "low spot" = smallest radius? > > Curt Ingraham > 72 2002tii > Oakland, CA > > Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Mount the tires properly. Have the old tires removed, bolt the wheels to >> the front hub and use a dial indicator to measure the wheel runout. Mark >> the low spot of each wheel. Have the tires mounted with the harmonic >> mark >> (all new tires are marked) aligned with the low spot of the wheel. >> Gary Derian > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I know the Yokohama I just bought had two marks, a red triangle at the lightest spot (to be aligned with valve stem), and a yellow dot for maximum radial runout (as Gary mentioned). They were mounted using the weight mark. Each balanced with a single 1/4 oz. weight. -tammer --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "low spot" = smallest radius? > > Curt Ingraham > 72 2002tii > Oakland, CA > > Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mount the tires properly. Have the old tires removed, > bolt the wheels to > > the front hub and use a dial indicator to measure the > wheel runout. Mark > > the low spot of each wheel. Have the tires mounted > with the harmonic mark > > (all new tires are marked) aligned with the low spot of > the wheel. > > Gary Derian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:09:55 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tammer Farid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That valve stem thing is wrong for most aluminum rims. Standard steel wheels are built and measured for runout, and the valve stem hold is drilled at the low spot. Fancy aluminum wheels have their valve stem holes set by the design so they have other marks for runout, but after many years the marks wear off, and the wheels change, so one has to measure them to know where to mount the tires. The tire shop guys don't know any better so they think the mark always goes to the valve stem. The triangle mark is probably a QC stamp. The red dot is the tire high mark. There is no point in mounting a tire's light spot with the heavy spot on the rim. Extra weight on the rim causes no harm. Getting the runouts wrong will cause a shake that cannot be balanced out. Tire guys also don't know how to dismount BMW ///M wheels with their special large safety hump. The tire must be pushed off the rim at the valve stem. Tire guys are taught to never do that because pressure transmitters are mounted there on vehicles with tire pressure monitors. Don't forget to always use short valve stems and the metal caps for high performance use. Gary Derian >I know the Yokohama I just bought had two marks, a red > triangle at the lightest spot (to be aligned with valve > stem), and a yellow dot for maximum radial runout (as Gary > mentioned). > > They were mounted using the weight mark. Each balanced > with a single 1/4 oz. weight. > > -tammer > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> "low spot" = smallest radius? >> >> Curt Ingraham >> 72 2002tii >> Oakland, CA >> >> Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Mount the tires properly. Have the old tires removed, >> bolt the wheels to >> > the front hub and use a dial indicator to measure the >> wheel runout. Mark >> > the low spot of each wheel. Have the tires mounted >> with the harmonic mark >> > (all new tires are marked) aligned with the low spot of >> the wheel. >> > Gary Derian > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:34:46 -0700 From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 05:09:55PM -0400, Gary Derian wrote: >... > many years the marks wear off, and the wheels change, so one has to > measure them to know where to mount the tires. Just for the sake of completeness, where do you place the dial indicator? Where the bead hits the wheel? Do you do this on both sides and take an average? And how do you explain to the guy at Discount Tire what you're doing as you take your wheel back out to the parking lot, remount it on the hub, and start fiddling with indicators before he can put a tire on it? :) Your knowledge of wheels and tires continues to amaze and astound... -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:13:17 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. I measure at home. I don't let those guys mount the wheels on my car. Gary Derian > On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 05:09:55PM -0400, Gary Derian wrote: >>... >> many years the marks wear off, and the wheels change, so one has to >> measure them to know where to mount the tires. > > Just for the sake of completeness, where do you place the dial > indicator? Where the bead hits the wheel? Do you do this on both sides > and take an average? > > And how do you explain to the guy at Discount Tire what you're doing as > you take your wheel back out to the parking lot, remount it on the hub, > and start fiddling with indicators before he can put a tire on it? > :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:28:31 -0400 From: Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The UUC list attracts only the best. Our tire engineers are fully baked. - Rob On Apr 27, 2005, at 7:13 PM, Gary Derian wrote: > Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:11:30 -0500 From: "Jason Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Since the subject came up, do any of you guys have a system for mounting/dismounting tires yourself? It would be nice to order from Tire Rack, mount, & take to local shop for balancing. (Then those guys wouldn't have a change to overtorque my lug nuts!) Back when I was a teenager I did mount a couple of tires myself with a couple of crowbars and my dad had an old spin balancer that you could balance the tires on the car. One advantage to this method is it could balance out imbalances in the other rotating parts (e.g. rotors). You could run into problems when you rotate tires though (or even remove the tire - you must keep the tire/rim in the same orientation as when you balanced it) - Jason '86 325e ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] S-03's was BFG KDW's > Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. I measure at home. I > don't let those guys mount the wheels on my car. > > Gary Derian > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:28:17 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jason Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tires must be spun balanced off the car to get a dynamic balance. It is possible to statically balance a tire by bolting it to a hub and letting the heavy spot fall down. Then move the heavy spot to the top and increment it to the side until it overcomes friction, then mark that spot, and move the heavy spot to the other side until it overcomes friction, then split the difference. That is the heavy spot. Then move it to the side and add weight opposite until a nudge up or down has the same glide. Skinny tires are easily mounted on steel rims at home, but no way to do wide low profile tires without a modern tire machine. Gary Derian > Since the subject came up, do any of you guys have a system for > mounting/dismounting tires yourself? It would be nice to order > from Tire Rack, mount, & take to local shop for balancing. (Then > those guys wouldn't have a change to overtorque my lug nuts!) > > Back when I was a teenager I did mount a couple of tires myself > with a couple of crowbars and my dad had an old spin balancer that you > could balance the tires on the car. One advantage to this method > is it could balance out imbalances in the other rotating parts (e.g. > rotors). > You could run into problems when you rotate tires though (or even > remove the tire - you must keep the tire/rim in the same orientation as > when you balanced it) > > - Jason > '86 325e > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [UUC] S-03's was BFG KDW's > >> Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. I measure at home. I >> don't let those guys mount the wheels on my car. >> >> Gary Derian >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:44:29 -0700 From: Ping Gordo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This info is amazing, Gary. I mounted my track wheels for the DE last month and on the way to the school, I get this very violent shake that won't go away when I get past 75mph. I limp to the track at 65 and one of the guys suggested I remount the tires but torque incrementally. Start with 65, then 75 then the final torque. Amazingly the shaking disappeared. He claims it's the aftermarket wheels that seem to have this problem. It doesn't happen when I mount the OEM star wheels for the MCoupes. I wonder if your technique would have eliminated this issue? What do you think? Pingger On Wednesday, April 27, 2005, at 06:28 PM, Gary Derian wrote: > Tires must be spun balanced off the car to get a dynamic balance. > > It is possible to statically balance a tire by bolting it to a hub and > letting the heavy spot fall down. Then move the heavy spot to the top > and > increment it to the side until it overcomes friction, then mark that > spot, > and move the heavy spot to the other side until it overcomes friction, > then > split the difference. That is the heavy spot. Then move it to the > side and > add weight opposite until a nudge up or down has the same glide. > > Skinny tires are easily mounted on steel rims at home, but no way to > do wide > low profile tires without a modern tire machine. > > Gary Derian > > >> Since the subject came up, do any of you guys have a system for >> mounting/dismounting tires yourself? It would be nice to order >> from Tire Rack, mount, & take to local shop for balancing. (Then >> those guys wouldn't have a change to overtorque my lug nuts!) >> >> Back when I was a teenager I did mount a couple of tires myself >> with a couple of crowbars and my dad had an old spin balancer that you >> could balance the tires on the car. One advantage to this method >> is it could balance out imbalances in the other rotating parts (e.g. >> rotors). >> You could run into problems when you rotate tires though (or even >> remove the tire - you must keep the tire/rim in the same orientation >> as >> when you balanced it) >> >> - Jason >> '86 325e >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [UUC] S-03's was BFG KDW's >> >>> Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. I measure at >>> home. I don't let those guys mount the wheels on my car. >>> >>> Gary Derian >>> >> Search the >> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ____ >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW >> CCA. >> >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW > CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:00:29 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ping Gordo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: S-03's was BFG KDW's Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Seems to me your wheels are not running true on your hubs. When you loosened and retightened them, they moved a bit. Are your wheels hub centric? If so, what is the clearance between the hub pilot and the wheel center? I was describing a cheesy at-home balance that might work, but it not as good as a real off the car spin balance. Gary Derian > This info is amazing, Gary. I mounted my track wheels for the DE last > month and on the way to the school, I get this very violent shake that > won't go away when I get past 75mph. I limp to the track at 65 and one of > the guys suggested I remount the tires but torque incrementally. Start > with 65, then 75 then the final torque. Amazingly the shaking > disappeared. > > He claims it's the aftermarket wheels that seem to have this problem. It > doesn't happen when I mount the OEM star wheels for the MCoupes. I wonder > if your technique would have eliminated this issue? What do you think? > > Pingger > On Wednesday, April 27, 2005, at 06:28 PM, Gary Derian wrote: > >> Tires must be spun balanced off the car to get a dynamic balance. >> >> It is possible to statically balance a tire by bolting it to a hub and >> letting the heavy spot fall down. Then move the heavy spot to the top >> and >> increment it to the side until it overcomes friction, then mark that >> spot, >> and move the heavy spot to the other side until it overcomes friction, >> then >> split the difference. That is the heavy spot. Then move it to the side >> and >> add weight opposite until a nudge up or down has the same glide. >> >> Skinny tires are easily mounted on steel rims at home, but no way to do >> wide >> low profile tires without a modern tire machine. >> >> Gary Derian >> >> >>> Since the subject came up, do any of you guys have a system for >>> mounting/dismounting tires yourself? It would be nice to order >>> from Tire Rack, mount, & take to local shop for balancing. (Then >>> those guys wouldn't have a change to overtorque my lug nuts!) >>> >>> Back when I was a teenager I did mount a couple of tires myself >>> with a couple of crowbars and my dad had an old spin balancer that you >>> could balance the tires on the car. One advantage to this method >>> is it could balance out imbalances in the other rotating parts (e.g. >>> rotors). >>> You could run into problems when you rotate tires though (or even >>> remove the tire - you must keep the tire/rim in the same orientation as >>> when you balanced it) >>> >>> - Jason >>> '86 325e >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [UUC] S-03's was BFG KDW's >>> >>>> Any half baked tire engineer knows all this stuff. I measure at home. >>>> I don't let those guys mount the wheels on my car. >>>> >>>> Gary Derian >>>> >>> Search the >>> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> ____ >>> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW >>> CCA. >>> >>> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >>> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >>> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com >> >> >> Search the >> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> ___ >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW >> CCA. >> >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steve.Goldstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: <E36> Cluster Fun Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My '99 323is (yes, it's an E36, the coupe didn't change until MY2000) now has two cluster funnies so I figure it's time to ask for some help. 1. My Peake reset tool will not reset the inspection lights. It works fine for my '91 E30, just not for my E36. The funny thing is that it _appears_ to work fine, it flashes at the right rate, but the lights don't reset. This is low urgency. 2. The latest weirdness just happened yesterday. I noticed on my commute home that the odometer illumination was dead. The odo itself is still working but with the light gone it's a tad hard to see. All other instrument lights, including the inspection light on startup, are normal. A quick check of fuses 22, 25, 33, 37 (the numbers are from memory, they're the ones listed for instrument illumination in the Bentley book) revealed no problems. Any ideas on either of these? BTW, the Bentley book is only minimally useful, not at all like their E30 volume. Is there anything better for the E36? TIA Steve '91 318is old reliable '99 323is stealth odometer '04 330xi spousal wunderkar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> Cluster Fun Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, April 27, 2005 9:40 am, Steve.Goldstein said: > 1. My Peake reset tool will not reset the inspection lights. I'm not sure if there are different Peake models, but the reset/code reader I have works on E30 and E36 cars. > 2. The latest weirdness just happened yesterday. I noticed > on my commute home that the odometer illumination was > dead. The odo itself is still working but with the light > gone it's a tad hard to see. Burnt out blub in the back of the cluster. Remove the cluster and replace the bulb. BTDT. > BTW, the Bentley book is only minimally useful, not at all like > their E30 volume. Is there anything better for the E36? Not really. BTW the cluster isn't meant to be a user-serviceable item on E36s (illumination blubs nowithstanding). Although I haven't looked at mine in a while, so I can't recall if it even mentions how to replace the bulbs in the cluster(?). Hope that helps, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:39:23 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> Cluster Fun Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> depends on your definition of "better". http://www.bmwtechinfo.com/ Written for a mech that has actually been to a BMW school. At least that's my opinion. marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve.Goldstein Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [UUC] <E36> Cluster Fun My '99 323is (yes, it's an E36, the coupe didn't change until MY2000) now has two cluster funnies so I figure it's time to ask for some help. BTW, the Bentley book is only minimally useful, not at all like their E30 volume. Is there anything better for the E36? TIA Steve '91 318is old reliable '99 323is stealth odometer '04 330xi spousal wunderkar Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(14 messages) **********
