The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 565 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: track time Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Re: e36 brake pads - track cars <E36> Dash color fade Re: <E36> Dash color fade quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Re: quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Re: quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Re: e36 brake pads - track cars hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors [Fwd: [M3] Part Number Needed ASAP]
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:03:02 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: track time Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Autocross is another good way to hone skills, but remember > that skills applicable to an autox run at 30-70 mph can be > dangerous on a track. You need to match your reactions to > the car's speed. Reactions on a track will need to be > quicker, but more subtle because of the increased speed...Two > more months til seat time. About time for me to get itchy > enough to fire up GPL on the PC for a bit. It depends. A good autocrosser will exhibit the exact same traits as a good road racer: Smooth inputs, smooth steering, patience. One of the reasons that road racers usually say "I'm terrible at autocross," is because they probably feel cramped in the small course & try to do inputs too fast & not nearly smoothly enough. Vehicle dynamics are vehicle dynamics. They don't change. The concepts of weight transfer, balance & grip are the same at higher speeds, varying surfaces, on ice, etc, the forces acting on them change. I would say the opposite, that your reactions on track should be much more patient (or slower if you will) & precise (or subtle, if you will) as the momentum & kinetic energy have piled up on you. > > Marc Plante > E36 M3/4 > Vienna VA > (Looking out the window at snow) Lee (looking out the window at our 3rd day of sunny 70 deg days.....damn I should've driven the M3 today) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:11:36 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > BMW CCA *does not* hold racing schools. We hold driving schools. > Period. Unfortunately, testosterone & sports cars always seem to lead to this though. I've seen as many as 7 cars wrecked (& more than once) at a single event, although not all were racing some definitely were. Not letting someone by or making it hard for someone to get by, or hearing an instructor tell someone to make another "earn the pass" definitely doesn't sound like just a driver's school. > > GGC does this. Our one-day Car Control Clinics are required > before a driving school. I can't remember having seen this anywhere in my general area, but this is definitely what I would say should be a must. > > The Audi Club, at least here on the Left Coast, does Car > Control exercises in the paddock the morning of the first day > for beginner students. One time. One time. Did you learn to do this stuff in one morning? I certainly didn't, it took years. > > But in general I agree with you. Everyone wants to skip the > basics and just Go Really Fast, at the expense of really > learning to drive. Of course, although some of those guys think they are going fast. Everybody has different aggression levels. Mine's in the very high to maniac range I'd say. I drill rumble strips, trailbrake, drift the car & generally go pretty fast for what I got, & while there are guys more insane than me, most are much less aggressive. Being a racer, I somehow doubt you fit into that category. ;P > > - Mark Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:17:49 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Feb 25, 2005, at 2:11 PM, Robinson, Lee wrote: >> BMW CCA *does not* hold racing schools. We hold driving schools. >> Period. > > Unfortunately, testosterone & sports cars always seem to lead to this > though. I've seen as many as 7 cars wrecked (& more than once) at a > single > event, although not all were racing some definitely were. Ugly. > Not letting someone by or making it hard for someone to get by, or > hearing > an instructor tell someone to make another "earn the pass" definitely > doesn't sound like just a driver's school. I'd boot one of our instructors out of the program in a heartbeat if I saw or heard about this. >> The Audi Club, at least here on the Left Coast, does Car >> Control exercises in the paddock the morning of the first day >> for beginner students. > > One time. One time. Did you learn to do this stuff in one morning? I > certainly didn't, it took years. Agreed, but better than nothing. >> But in general I agree with you. Everyone wants to skip the >> basics and just Go Really Fast, at the expense of really >> learning to drive. > > Of course, although some of those guys think they are going fast. > Everybody > has different aggression levels. Mine's in the very high to maniac > range > I'd say. I drill rumble strips, trailbrake, drift the car & generally > go > pretty fast for what I got, & while there are guys more insane than > me, most > are much less aggressive. Being a racer, I somehow doubt you fit into > that > category. ;P Who, me? :) Honestly, I take the school thing SERIOUSLY when I'm instructing, no matter whose club it is. I dial my own driving back, too. It's all about recognizing your surroundings and tailoring your behavior to fit. - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:05:57 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: <E36> Dash color fade Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What would cause the color to slough off of the air vents on a '96 328i with only 76k miles. Interior is the combination cream and light brown. The coloring of the vent lourver on the passenger side are showing the black underlying plastic. Is this an indication of perhaps antifreeze coming through the vents? -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:59 -0800 (PST) From: wy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> Dash color fade Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> just a WAG. Might it be the microscopic dust escaping from the microfilter entrapment and settling on the vents? Or the dust slowly eroding away the paint? Will --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What would cause the color to slough off of the air > vents on a '96 328i > with only 76k miles. Interior is the combination > cream and light brown. The > coloring of the vent lourver on the passenger side > are showing the black > underlying plastic. Is this an indication of perhaps > antifreeze coming > through the vents? > > -Kevin > > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ===== Get Firefox! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:37:08 -0800 (PST) From: dinty44 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm in the process of changing my belts and need to remove the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia. Clockwise or counterclockwise? Any other hints in our to get the thing off? Thanks, David M 1995 540ia __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:02:07 -0500 From: "Rich Dorffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "dinty44" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Clockwise to loosen (looking from the front of the car). Use a thin 32mm wrench (bicycle headset wrench, ground down cheap-o whatever, slim Hazet/Snap-On/etc.). Also, it can help to use a hammer (dead blow) to whack the wrench one time (or two) to break the fan loose if you don't have the factory tools to hold the fan. Regards, Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dinty44 > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [UUC] quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 > 540ia > > > I'm in the process of changing my belts and need > to remove the fan/fan > clutch on my 1995 540ia. > > Clockwise or counterclockwise? > > Any other hints in our to get the thing off? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: dinty44 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] Subject: Re: quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks all. I actually replaced the belts without having to get the pesky fan off. D -----Original Message----- From: Rich Dorffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:02 PM To: dinty44; [email protected] Subject: RE: [UUC] quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 540ia Clockwise to loosen (looking from the front of the car). Use a thin 32mm wrench (bicycle headset wrench, ground down cheap-o whatever, slim Hazet/Snap-On/etc.). Also, it can help to use a hammer (dead blow) to whack the wrench one time (or two) to break the fan loose if you don't have the factory tools to hold the fan. Regards, Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dinty44 > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [UUC] quick help! - removing the fan/fan clutch on my 1995 > 540ia > > > I'm in the process of changing my belts and need > to remove the fan/fan > clutch on my 1995 540ia. > > Clockwise or counterclockwise? > > Any other hints in our to get the thing off? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:20:42 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The last discussion was excellent. I learned a lot. Basically, lift early and let engine braking slow you down at first, then brake hard. Letting the engine take you from say 120 mph to 100, then braking saves a bunch of heat from your brakes, yet allows you to feel and practice threshold braking. This is not racing. If you race that way you will get passed going into every corner. Better tires and better driving means you can corner faster which reduces the braking needed. Gary Derian > On Feb 25, 2005, at 11:47 AM, Andre Yew wrote: >> Could you explain more what good braking technique is, and how bad >> technique destroys pads? This is a question I've been wondering about, >> and I've never received a satisfactory answer in years of driving schools >> here in California. Thanks. > > You really want me to open that can of worms (Hi Gary!)? > > In short, my suggestions: > > - get on and off the brakes smoothly but quickly > - get on the brakes hard and then get off them. This gives them time to > cool between uses. > - brake shorter and harder versus lighter and longer. Again, cooling. > - BE SMOOTH > > YMMV. > > - Mark > ----- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: > http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 05:05:49 -0800 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[uucdigest]" <[email protected]> Subject: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For the fuel injection specialists among you: I'm seeking opinions on the limitations of stock 21.5 injector with stock OBDII cams and intake manifold versus possible gains with a 24# injector, assuming the s/w will be dialed in specifically for the application. On the Turner website, they state there is a 270hp limit for the stock E36 //M3 injectors, and 24# injectors are needed for above that. Dinan claims 272hp with stock injectors and 4 bar pressure. Using a 15% conversion factor from rwhp, my stock injector tests using 4 bar fuel pressure with less than ideal software are similar but slightly lower. The 24# injectors test well above that. Before going to the next step by having custom s/w made, I have to decide if the same power can be made with stock injectors and custom s/w (at any fuel pressure) as 24# and my current s/w make now. Otoh, what might hp and tq limits be with 24# injectors on the same setup? tia, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:43:18 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "JKerouac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[uucdigest]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There is no torque limit for injectors. Fuel flow is proportional to power. 24# injectors can develop a zillion ton-miles of torque if the power (meaning rpm) is low enough. A gas engine burns about 0.5 lb of fuel per hp-hr at full throttle. A very well tuned engine can do better, about 0.45 or so, but the 0.5 number leaves some margin. Injector duty cycle should not exceed 80%, but some people have been successful at higher duty cycles. Crunching some numbers, 6 24 lb/hr injectors at full open deliver 144 lb/hr which is enough fuel for 288 hp. Raising fuel pressure from 3 to 4 bar increases fuel flow sqrt(4/3) = 15% to 333 hp. This is at 100% duty cycle. Gary Derian > For the fuel injection specialists among you: > I'm seeking opinions on the limitations of stock 21.5 injector with > stock OBDII cams and intake manifold versus possible gains with a 24# > injector, assuming the s/w will be dialed in specifically for the > application. > On the Turner website, they state there is a 270hp limit for the stock > E36 //M3 injectors, and 24# injectors are needed for above that. Dinan > claims 272hp with stock injectors and 4 bar pressure. Using a 15% > conversion factor from rwhp, my stock injector tests using 4 bar fuel > pressure with less than ideal software are similar but slightly lower. > The 24# injectors test well above that. > Before going to the next step by having custom s/w made, I have to > decide if the same power can be made with stock injectors and custom s/w > (at any fuel pressure) as 24# and my current s/w make now. Otoh, what > might hp and tq limits be with 24# injectors on the same setup? > tia, > Barry > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:41:24 -0800 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "[uucdigest]" <[email protected]>, Marco Romani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If for 80% duty cycle: 21.5#: 3.5 bar (stock): 129/.5x7/6x.8=240.8hp ----> stock hp rating 129.5/.45x7/6x.8=268.6hp ----> approx. max that several tuners posted could be attained in the first few years of the OBDII 3.2 was produced. 4 bar: 129.5/.5*4/3x.8=276.3hp 226hp ----> my rwhp with 4 bar and stock injectors 272hp ----> Dinan's rated hp for his euro MAF/stock injector/ large throttle body kit 24# 3.5 bar 144/.5x7/6x.8=268.8hp 235rwhp ----> my current rwhp 259rwhp ----> best Eurosport cam kit installation at this dyno 144/.45x7/6x.8=298.7hp ----> well under Marco's goal 4 bar: 144/.5x4/3x.8=307.2hp ----> well under Marco's goal 144/.45x4/3x.8=341.3hp ----> within Marco's goal 30#, 3.5 bar 180/.5x7/6x.8=336hp ----> within Marco's goal, conservatively attained 180/.45x7/6x.8=373.3hp ----> potential for Marco's motor (and unlimited R&D money?) Based on these numbers: Can we conclude closer to .45# fuel/hp efficiency on these //M motors? What duty cycle does the stock mapping use at WOT? "" for common aftermarket remaps? To be able to tie together dyno testing versus these calculations, what is the closest conversion factor for comparing rear wheel to engine hp that anyone has come up with for these //M cars? tia again, Barry Gary Derian wrote: > There is no torque limit for injectors. Fuel flow is proportional to > power. 24# injectors can develop a zillion ton-miles of torque if the > power (meaning rpm) is low enough. A gas engine burns about 0.5 lb of > fuel per hp-hr at full throttle. A very well tuned engine can do > better, about 0.45 or so, but the 0.5 number leaves some margin. > Injector duty cycle should not exceed 80%, but some people have been > successful at higher duty cycles. Crunching some numbers, 6 24 lb/hr > injectors at full open deliver 144 lb/hr which is enough fuel for 288 > hp. Raising fuel pressure from 3 to 4 bar increases fuel flow > sqrt(4/3) = 15% to 333 hp. This is at 100% duty cycle. Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:03:15 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> fwiw, I'm moving to 30# injectors from 24lb for my new motor that I'm hoping will be getting 330hp. To stay at 80% duty cycle I went to 30#. Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JKerouac Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:06 AM To: [uucdigest] Subject: [UUC] hp limits of 21.5 vs 24# injectors For the fuel injection specialists among you: I'm seeking opinions on the limitations of stock 21.5 injector with stock OBDII cams and intake manifold versus possible gains with a 24# injector, assuming the s/w will be dialed in specifically for the application. On the Turner website, they state there is a 270hp limit for the stock E36 //M3 injectors, and 24# injectors are needed for above that. Dinan claims 272hp with stock injectors and 4 bar pressure. Using a 15% conversion factor from rwhp, my stock injector tests using 4 bar fuel pressure with less than ideal software are similar but slightly lower. The 24# injectors test well above that. Before going to the next step by having custom s/w made, I have to decide if the same power can be made with stock injectors and custom s/w (at any fuel pressure) as 24# and my current s/w make now. Otoh, what might hp and tq limits be with 24# injectors on the same setup? tia, Barry Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:52:23 -0500 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: [Fwd: [M3] Part Number Needed ASAP] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Little spring wire staple used to hold the connector to the fuel injector. Went flying and can't find it anywhere! Can't find it on the Part CD and I'm pretty good at using it. Anyone? Thanks, Ed -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005 ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(14 messages) **********
