The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 6 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Formula 1 news shocker [OT] Re: 235/45/17 snow tires? Re: [Fwd: E36 Suspension Freshening Questions] Re: [Fwd: E36 Suspension Freshening Questions]
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:49:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John, I respect the amount of BMW experience you've gained over the years, so I hope you take the following as a hint that will make your information more accessible to the readers of this digest. As it is, it's rather painful to read your posts for one reason only, illustrated in the links below: "Do not use quotation marks for emphasis. Example: Our bread is "fresh" every day." http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/grammar/course/punctuation/3_8.htm More on the subject: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_overvw.html http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.Punctuation.html http://www1.umn.edu/urelate/style/italics.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark https://mit.imoat.net/handbook/q-marks.htm Thanks for considering the mental health of your readers. Of course this isn't the most formal of media, but that doesn't mean we should ignore linguistic convention. Best regards, tammer --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hey Brian: > > This subject has been all over the place previously on > various boards..and I > personally have struggled with it when replacing my > original E28 M5 windshield > several years ago. After all the research was done on my > part, I opted to go > with OEM style glass "Sekurit" which was the "original" > manufacturer, however > I "did not" get it through a dealer, so it came "sans" > the Roundel > "logo"....my inspection sticker covers it up anyway, so > what the heck! :-) It was "much > less expensive" without the BMW logo...and my cheif > concern was "quality". > When ordering through a dealer, even with a BMW CCA > discount if you can get > one, the glass "may" have flaws and it will be a pain > re-ordering another > windshield through a dealer..maybe not...but I actually > went through "3" windshields > with my independent installer until we found one that > didn't have flaws. A > lways look though the glass and make sure there are no > obvious "waves" in the > glass or other imperfections. You are going to have to > look through the glass > for a long time once in stalled! > > This is my only complaint with the Imported glass...and > yes, purportedly it > "is" softer. PPG is another option...and many guys have > been pleased with PPG. > It is not as soft and the quality is excellent as far as > what I was able to > find out. I don't believe fitment is a problem with > either. > > Just inspect the glass "closely" whatever you decide to > go with before > attempting to install it. > > I simply chose to stay with Sekurit, but there are > actually 3 different > manufacturers on the glass pieces in my '88 M5..of course > it was hand assembled, > and I suppose they merely used what glass was available > back in July '87! This > may be the case on all Bimmers. > > If you're totally "anal" then go with the "Roundel" logo > and get the glass > from a dealer...but expect to pay "premium" money for it! > Trust me, if I can > live with a "non-logo" windshield anyone can! :-) > > Good luck & I hope this info helps, > > John Weese > BMW CCA #76646 > Landisville, PA > '88 M5 > 4 2002's > '96 Orvis Jeep ('02 Hauler) > > In a message dated 12/18/2005 8:18:49 AM Eastern Standard > Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Hey all, > > I did a look through the archives, but I thought I'd > bring the topic up again to see if thoughts have > changed (relatively). I need to replace the > windshield in my E36, and although I recall some > threads in the not so distant past about windshield > brands for replacement, I am unsure what the consensus > was (or if there was one) regarding preferred > replacement brand. I DO know Levinson likes his OEM > glass for all the BMW logos and knicknacks, and a > guaranteed fit, but I don't know really know what most > others think. :) I do recall hearing that OEM glass > is a bit softer/more prone to chips and pits(?) What > do you all think? I was thinking also about > structural considerations, which I guess are moot if > the oem glass is softer and the PPG is harder. > Fitment-wise, is the PPG as good (or better) than OEM? > Opinions welcome, as well as names of any good > windshield installation places in the Los Angeles area > that anyone has had very good experience with. ;) > > Thanks, > Brian > 95 M3 > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder > of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of > the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:31:01 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah John! Get with it. this link should help ;-) http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/leet.php Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tammer Farid Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] Windshields OEM or PPG? John, <snip> Thanks for considering the mental health of your readers. Of course this isn't the most formal of media, but that doesn't mean we should ignore linguistic convention. Best regards, tammer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:59:07 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Weese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tammer, With all due respect, was it really necessary to reply to the entire group with that? I honestly don't think mental health has anything to do with reading a UUC Digest post that uses quotation marks a few times for emphasis. Tact is key. I've seen "A LOT" worse when it comes to online grammar. - Justin Weese --- Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John, > I respect the amount of BMW experience you've gained > over > the years, so I hope you take the following as a > hint that > will make your information more accessible to the > readers > of this digest. As it is, it's rather painful to > read your > posts for one reason only, illustrated in the links > below: > > "Do not use quotation marks for emphasis. > Example: Our bread is "fresh" every day." > http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/grammar/course/punctuation/3_8.htm > > More on the subject: > http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_overvw.html > http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.Punctuation.html > http://www1.umn.edu/urelate/style/italics.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark > https://mit.imoat.net/handbook/q-marks.htm > > Thanks for considering the mental health of your > readers. > Of course this isn't the most formal of media, but > that > doesn't mean we should ignore linguistic convention. > > Best regards, > tammer > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hey Brian: > > > > This subject has been all over the place > previously on > > various boards..and I > > personally have struggled with it when replacing > my > > original E28 M5 windshield > > several years ago. After all the research was > done on my > > part, I opted to go > > with OEM style glass "Sekurit" which was the > "original" > > manufacturer, however > > I "did not" get it through a dealer, so it came > "sans" > > the Roundel > > "logo"....my inspection sticker covers it up > anyway, so > > what the heck! :-) It was "much > > less expensive" without the BMW logo...and my > cheif > > concern was "quality". > > When ordering through a dealer, even with a BMW > CCA > > discount if you can get > > one, the glass "may" have flaws and it will be a > pain > > re-ordering another > > windshield through a dealer..maybe not...but I > actually > > went through "3" windshields > > with my independent installer until we found one > that > > didn't have flaws. A > > lways look though the glass and make sure there > are no > > obvious "waves" in the > > glass or other imperfections. You are going to > have to > > look through the glass > > for a long time once in stalled! > > > > This is my only complaint with the Imported > glass...and > > yes, purportedly it > > "is" softer. PPG is another option...and many > guys have > > been pleased with PPG. > > It is not as soft and the quality is excellent as > far as > > what I was able to > > find out. I don't believe fitment is a problem > with > > either. > > > > Just inspect the glass "closely" whatever you > decide to > > go with before > > attempting to install it. > > > > I simply chose to stay with Sekurit, but there are > > actually 3 different > > manufacturers on the glass pieces in my '88 M5..of > course > > it was hand assembled, > > and I suppose they merely used what glass was > available > > back in July '87! This > > may be the case on all Bimmers. > > > > If you're totally "anal" then go with the > "Roundel" logo > > and get the glass > > from a dealer...but expect to pay "premium" money > for it! > > Trust me, if I can > > live with a "non-logo" windshield anyone can! :-) > > > > Good luck & I hope this info helps, > > > > John Weese > > BMW CCA #76646 > > Landisville, PA > > '88 M5 > > 4 2002's > > '96 Orvis Jeep ('02 Hauler) > > > > In a message dated 12/18/2005 8:18:49 AM Eastern > Standard > > Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hey all, > > > > I did a look through the archives, but I thought > I'd > > bring the topic up again to see if thoughts have > > changed (relatively). I need to replace the > > windshield in my E36, and although I recall some > > threads in the not so distant past about > windshield > > brands for replacement, I am unsure what the > consensus > > was (or if there was one) regarding preferred > > replacement brand. I DO know Levinson likes his > OEM > > glass for all the BMW logos and knicknacks, and a > > guaranteed fit, but I don't know really know what > most > > others think. :) I do recall hearing that OEM > glass > > is a bit softer/more prone to chips and pits(?) > What > > do you all think? I was thinking also about > > structural considerations, which I guess are moot > if > > the oem glass is softer and the PPG is harder. > > Fitment-wise, is the PPG as good (or better) than > OEM? > > Opinions welcome, as well as names of any good > > windshield installation places in the Los Angeles > area > > that anyone has had very good experience with. ;) > > > > Thanks, > > Brian > > 95 M3 > > Search the > > > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder > > of the BMW CCA. > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of > > the Ultimate > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:50:35 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brian, the critical thing on the windscreen replacement is making sure it doesn't leak. This is accomplished by having an experienced installer do it and by making sure they use the BMW materials (urethane kit ?) and then test for integrity once completed. -Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:25:29 -0500 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "911" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ferrari List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "BMW List" <[email protected]> Subject: Formula 1 news shocker [OT] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wow. Not to mention that Ferrari is losing one of its big sponsors. This driver shift must mean that Kimi is taking Schumacher's seat at Ferrari in 2007.... Vty, --Dennis Alonso in shock move to McLaren McLaren has shocked the world of Formula One by announcing that World Champion Fernando Alonso will be driving for the team from the start of the 2007 season. Alonso's decision to sign for the Woking-based team means that either Kimi Raikkonen or Juan Pablo Montoya will be moving aside to make way for the Spanish star - which is likely to have a considerable knock-on effect throughout the rest of the drivers market. It will also be interesting to see what effect the announcement has on Alonso's motivation during the 2006 season - when he will still be driving for the Renault team. Juan-Pablo Montoya suffered from a relatively disappointing season in 2004 after it was announced that he would be leaving Williams for McLaren. "It's great that our strong belief in the strength and competitiveness of the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes package has been further endorsed by the World Champion," said Ron Dennis, Team Principal of McLaren. "We always make it clear that we want to be the best and the only way of achieving this objective is by attracting the best people, the best drivers and the best sponsors. To be able to announce Vodafone as only McLaren's third title partner in more than 30 years and Fernando's employment within only a few days is fantastic news for the team, our partners, Formula One and the fans." "We are in discussions with our current drivers' Kimi Raikkonen and Juan Pablo Montoya regarding the 2007 season", continued Dennis - confirming that one of them is likely to be forced out by the decision. "Both Juan Pablo and Kimi are extremely talented, professional and competitive Formula One drivers and they have and will continue to concentrate on our joint challenge for the Championships." "Fernando and McLaren Mercedes wanted to make the announcement as soon as possible in a controlled and professional manner to allow McLaren Mercedes, Fernando, Kimi and Juan Pablo to focus on the preparations for the 2006 season," states Ron Dennis. "Our aim for next year remains absolutely clear to everybody within the team - we want to win races and be in a position where we might have two Formula One World Champions driving for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes in 2007." "We are pleased to welcome Fernando to the team and look forward to working both with him and our new title sponsor in 2007," said Norbert Haug, Vice-President, Mercedes-Benz Motorsport. "To have a World Champion joining the team is a great endorsement and will create a tremendous amount of excitement. However for now our focus must remain on the 2006 season where we want to go one better than we did in 2005." Speaking about the move, 2005 Formula One World Champion Fernando Alonso commented "To become part of a team with such a desire to succeed and passion for performance is a dream come true for any Formula One driver. I am very excited about 2007 and the fantastic opportunity to drive for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes. It will be a new beginning for me and a tremendous challenge and from what I have heard about this exciting new Partnership there is something to look forward to. Obviously I will be sad to leave Renault but sometimes possibilities come along which are just too good to miss. I'm pleased that we are able to make this announcement already now as it will allow my current team and I to focus 100 per cent on defending the World Championships next year." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:59:36 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: 235/45/17 snow tires? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BFG in 235/45x17, at 25.4"tall, fit both front and rear, though I can't speak for Michelin. I've used BFG's in that size successfully with no clearance problems. They fill out the front wheel wells nicely too. Barry P Kroon wrote: >Hello, > >Does anyone know if Michelin 235/45/17 snow tires will >fit on an e36 M3? > >The tires currently on the car are 235/40/17, so these >are *slightly* taller tires (3.70" sidewall for the >stock tires and 4.16" for these snow tires). I have >these from my mustang, and if they will fit, I'd >rather not spend the money for another set. Plus, the >added height (while minimal I realize) can't hurt >either. >Thanks, >Paul > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:25:32 -0500 From: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Fwd: E36 Suspension Freshening Questions] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dec 16, 2005 2:24 AM > To: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [UUC] [Fwd: E36 Suspension Freshening Questions] > > Brian, > I just completed a rear suspension freshening on my '97 //M3 with > 119k miles, similar to what you are researching for your 325. My > suspension is basically stock except for Konis and a 24mm front swaybar. > Replaced were: > Differential, 3.38lsd, from Zionsville. Sweet find, and worth the > higher price. > Subframe bushings, two front and two rear, street urethane, from > Bimmerworld. > Camber arms, steel adjustable, from Bimmerworld. the factory arms bend > like butter, a known weak link (pun) in the rear suspension, you have to > take them half off already, why not another two bolts? I'll stick with the stock ones. I'm not looking to build a really killer handling car, just looking to spend as little as necessary to get the car to handle like it did when new (not that I know what that was like - I bought it with 65K miles on it.) > Rear swaybar bushings, Powerflex urethane. Didn't replace the end > links, no visible need to. Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for - confirmation that there's probably no need to spend for new end links. I'll just do the swaybar bushings. Do you remember where you got the Powerflex swaybar bushings? Bimmerworld has some of the other Powerflex stuff but I don't see the swaybar bushings. > Right side lower ball joint, OEM part. These should only need replacing > if a previous alignment shop overtightened the bolt, leading to it > fusing in the sleeve. > Differential mounts, three, delrin, from AKG Motorsport. These don't transmit vibration? Delrin is stiffer than urethane, right? It looks like AKG also offers a urethane version, I'll probably go with that. > Muffler hangers and exhaust flange nuts, OEM parts. Originals were > sagged with sleeves pulled out. Good thought. I'll take a look while I'm under the car. > 30k miles earlier I replaced the rear shock mounts with E46 OEM mounts. > Already replaced the RSMs with the shocks about a year ago. I went with the Bimmerworld "lifetime warranty" ones. > The ride is fine. Difference from before in how the tires plant is > what walking feels like after tying your shoelaces tight versus when > they were untied but you hadn't realized they were untied yet. > Urethane is not harsh, just nicely snugger. I think poor quality > bushings, people installing race hardness bushings for street use, > insufficent greasing, and improper torquing are big causes of > complaints. Get known good quality bushings, and install a washer over > and under them. Would you say you have a high tolerance for NVH? I assume the washers aren't a stock part, you just find one the right size? What's the object of adding the washer - to keep the bushing from squeezing out of the sleeve? I'd guess that adds stiffness vs. no washers. > > Tips: > Do drop the exhaust and rear swaybar, the subframe comes in and out > _much easier. When reinstalling the subframe secure the nuts and bolts > but leave the subframe that cm or so lower, this makes installing the > diff go easier. After the diff and control arms are connected, then > raise the subrame the rest of the way up to floor, being sure to keep > the washers centered on the bushings. > Its easier versus almost impossible later to reattach the control > arms to the subframe with the diferential still out. The upper nut > needs fingers from both hands one inside, one outside, to get it started. > With control arms connected, be sure to raise the trailing arms to > ride position before torquing down the control arm to subframe bolts, > else you'll be twisting the control arm bushing. Thanks for the installation tips. > Remove the rear cover and clean out the inside of the diff, then > replace the diff cover gasket. Refill with Redline 70w90. If you have > an lsd, check for broken bolt heads on the cap of the lsd unit. > Clean off the subframe and diff housing. Spray a few coats of > black Rustoleum on all the areas of the subframe where the paint has > chipped off. I hadn't thought about cracking open the diff, but probably a good idea to change the fluid and inspect things while it's out. > Also, you'll save lots of $$ on machine shop costs with urethane > since it is installable by hand but OEM rubber subframe bushings need > pressing. Good to know. I hadn't considered that factor. > To avoid a 9 out of ten bitch factor if doing it oneself, I > brought the subframe and diff cover to Dinan (aroudn the corner, and > their shop really is well equipped) to press the seven old bushings out, > they charged 1.25 hours and did a clean professional job using proper > equipment. If I had opted for new OEM bushings, the cost to press them > in would have been more than twice as much. I can get access to a press. I'll see if I can rent the correct fittings, maybe from Brett A.? > Spray paint over the RTAB cup bolts and the floor around them. > This gives a good ballpark estimate where to position them on reassembly. > Torque everything properly. I know I'm a torque wrench freak but > seriously, take the time to do this!! I'll send you a list of the > factory torque specs as listed in the TIS. > Only tools to be sure you have which a standard toobox may not, are > 18mm box and 1/2" socket wrenches, a torx head socket for the halfshaft > nuts, a "water pump pliers" size channel lock to makes pressing the > sleeves into the new bushings go easier, two (one spare) new hack saw > blades for sawing out the old RTAB sleeves, and a 1/2 drive torque > wrench. I like the clicker type for working in close quarters. > Based on the results after a few days of driving, and since I need > to do a realignment anyway, I've ordered urethane RTABS to replace the > 70kmile old OEM ones that have GC shims installed with them. With > everything else snug now I feel sideplay from the RTABs that I hadn't > noticed before. For your front end, go with the factory offset rubber > //M3 LCABs, > or better yet, get the Ireland Eyeball arms. I'll probably stick with stock. I'm not looking for additional camber. It's my daily driver and I don't want to trade increased tire wear for slightly better cornering that I'm not going to be using 99% of the time. > New upper strut mounts should be '96-99 //M3 parts, unless the prices > are more than a good set of adjustables. The old ones seemed OK so I reused them when I did the struts. I don't really need adjustability. > Hth, > Barry It does! I appreciate your taking the time to give such a detailed response. Thanks, Brian > > Brian Daley wrote: > >> I have a 94 325ic with about 150K miles on it. I'm pretty sure all of >> the suspension bushings, etc. are original and they're really sloppy >> at this point. I replaced the springs and shocks/struts about a year >> ago, so I figure all new bushings should put things back as they >> should be. My question is this: Which bushings do people typically >> replace? This car will never see a track, so I'm assuming stock-type >> rubber bushings are the best option for me. I assume that urethane >> would only amplify the shakes and rattles that the convertible already >> suffers from. True? >> 7) What special tools are required for the installation? >> I know that's a lot of questions, thanks for sharing any experience >> you may have. >> Brian >> '94 325ic > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:20:19 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Fwd: E36 Suspension Freshening Questions] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brian, Wrt rear subframe mount bushing washers and swaybar bushings: The swaybar bushings are made by Powerflex. They also make several sizes for the front bar. http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products.asp?cat=0003&catalog=0203&submit1.x=33&submit1.y=11&submit1=GO Bimmerworld will order them for you though they don't stock or list them on their website. For subframe bushing washers, the front Powerflex comes with four washers, one each for above and below, the rear come with only two, for below the bushings. Bimmerworld recommended washers above too. These washers have a larger centerhole than the OEM washers, not sure why. For snugger bushings seating, I hammered the original bowl shaped bushings washers flat. This made the center hole just large enough for the bolt. If the hole hammers too small drive a tapered drift punch through it to open the hole up again. I installed one of these first above each bushing. For diff bushings, I suggest delrin since these bushings in urethane will have too much sleeve for a smallish amount of urethane to flex compared to RTAB, subframe, and other suspension bushings. Previous BMW series' bolted the diff directly into the subframe, no bushings in between. Delrin is not flexible, and in looking at how the sleeve was half torn out of the rubber in my original diff cover bushings, it seemed the better choice. My tolerance for NVH is more than people who prefer stock exhausts would agree with, but I love a smooth calm ride. Urethane will transmit more vibration than OE rubber, but that doesn't have to translate into a harsher ride. Hth, Barry Brian Daley wrote: > > ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(8 messages) **********
