The BMW UUC Digest
Volume 3 : Issue 568 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Re: Timing chain tensioner leak on S54
97 328
Re: 97 328
Attention Bill Proud
engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:13:42 -0400
From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
"[email protected] >> BMWUUC Digest"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Folk,
Got a daughter with a non-running 325is near the above location.
Car was running until a four way stop, sputtered and died. I paid to
have it towed to a parking lot. She caught a ride on to her destination.
Car has fuel at the fuel rail, no apparent clicking of the injectors and
no spark (but I am nearly deaf, so the non-clicking is not a certainty).
Cam spins with the cranking, oil level is good. I pulled the distributor
cap, and it is marked as my having replaced it November last year with
under 2K miles on it since then. That job was rebuilt head, new throttle
body, and a lot of time chasing a bad emissions report. Problem then was
a 1550 rpm miss that was never resolved.
I am trying to fix this solo, having no one to crank it while I look at
stuff.
My initial suspicion is the crank position sensor, but would like other
thoughts before I drive back up there.
Car is an auto trans model, 163k on the car.
TIA,
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:56:07 -0400
From: johngrills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
"[email protected] >> BMWUUC Digest"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ed, I had similar symptoms on an M20 once. Turned out that the wire to
the crank position sensor (runs down the from of the engine to the
crank) had been frayed by the fan. The plastic cover that routes the
wire under the distributor had broken, causing it to flop around. New
cover, sensor and proper strain relief fixed it.
As for the miss, I'd look for leaky injector(s) seals, and or fuel
regulator and it's vacuum line.
As you suggest, I'd chase electrical 1st, given the symptoms.
cheers and good luck!
John Grills
National Capital Chapter
BMWCCA
Ed MacVaugh wrote:
> Folk,
>
> Got a daughter with a non-running 325is near the above location.
>
> Car was running until a four way stop, sputtered and died. I paid to
> have it towed to a parking lot. She caught a ride on to her destination.
>
> Car has fuel at the fuel rail, no apparent clicking of the injectors
> and no spark (but I am nearly deaf, so the non-clicking is not a
> certainty).
>
> Cam spins with the cranking, oil level is good. I pulled the
> distributor cap, and it is marked as my having replaced it November
> last year with under 2K miles on it since then. That job was rebuilt
> head, new throttle body, and a lot of time chasing a bad emissions
> report. Problem then was a 1550 rpm miss that was never resolved.
>
> I am trying to fix this solo, having no one to crank it while I look
> at stuff.
>
> My initial suspicion is the crank position sensor, but would like
> other thoughts before I drive back up there.
>
> Car is an auto trans model, 163k on the car.
>
> TIA,
>
> Ed
> Search the
> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
>
> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
>
> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:44:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed MacVaugh)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[email protected] ([email protected] >> BMWUUC Digest)
Subject: Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From Ed MacVaugh
>
>Folk,
>
>Got a daughter with a non-running 325is near the above location.
>
>Car was running until a four way stop, sputtered and died. I paid to
>have it towed to a parking lot. She caught a ride on to her destination.
>
>Car has fuel at the fuel rail, no apparent clicking of the injectors and
>no spark (but I am nearly deaf, so the non-clicking is not a certainty).
Ok, we will assume that you have fuel and no spark for the moment.
>Cam spins with the cranking, oil level is good. I pulled the distributor
>cap, and it is marked as my having replaced it November last year with
>under 2K miles on it since then. That job was rebuilt head, new throttle
>body, and a lot of time chasing a bad emissions report. Problem then was
>a 1550 rpm miss that was never resolved.
I hate to say it, but I think they all have that low RPM miss...
>I am trying to fix this solo, having no one to crank it while I look at
>stuff.
>
>My initial suspicion is the crank position sensor, but would like other
>thoughts before I drive back up there.
It could be the crank position sensor. That is a favorite for the dead E30
since the wires run right behind the water pump pulley and are just asking
to be cut (especially if the plastic cover has gone missing). Take a look at
the wires and check the resistance of the sensor against the numbers in the
Bentley book.
My 325i has died on me in service twice. The first time sounds much like
the symptoms you describe. The car sputtered and died like it ran out of
gas. I had pressure at the fuel rail, or so it seemed. Turns out that I had
fuel in the rail, but not enough pressure to run the engine. Eventually
traced back to a bad splice under the back seat that ran the main fuel pump
under the car. If you have a gauge, see what the fuel pressure actually is.
Without a gauge, 10psi looks a lot like 50psi, but 10psi won't run the
engine... but I had spark, you don't.
The second time mine quit it was more like someone just turned the engine
off. The engine would crank, but never start. The odd thing was that the
check engine light would blink while cranking. In this case the 50A fuse in
the trunk cracked. This fuse runs the engine computer, ignition, and fuel
injectors. Since mine only mostly failed, I had enough power to run the
computer right until it tried to fire the injectors, then the voltage to the
computer fell to zero and it reset. Lather, rinse, repeat. The fuse is
buried in the section of wire that runs along the passenger side of the
trunk. It is actually in the thinner wire from the positive terminal on the
battery, but the wires are bundled together. The terminal on the firewall in
the engine compartment has two sections. One connects to the heavy cable
that runs straight to the battery, the other is from the smaller wire and
feeds the engine computer. Check to see if you have power on each of these
connections. Check to see that you still have power while cranking.
If it is the fuse, a temporary fix can be made with some 6-32 nuts and bolts
and some thin wire. I used five strands of #30 magnet wire to patch mine
until the replacement fuse arrived. A little consulting with another group
provided me with a chart that showed #30 magnet wire has a fuse capacity
right at 10A. The bolts went through the riveted lugs on the old fuse and
the nuts held the wire in place. I drove on that for a week before I fixed
it the right way.
Other possibilities are a bad sensor in the air box. Oddly, you can unplug
it and the car will run without it. Apparently, it can work with no data from
the sensor, but cruddy data can make all kinds of things go wrong. I
discovered that when the flap in my box froze in position one winter.
My best guess right now is the 50A fuse. E30s like to get water in the trunk
and that fuse seems to like to corrode away.
Good luck!
-- Joe
--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations and Security
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Worcester Polytechnic Institute
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:12:23 -0400
From: Kevin Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ed,
I had a problem like that a few years ago. After testing the coil per
Bentley's instructions (it passed their specs), I had it towed to a trusted
mechanic, who tested the coil further, and decided it was bad. How long ago
was the coil replaced? If it's original, it's only $40, so I'd replace it
anyway.
Kevin
---- Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Folk,
>
> Got a daughter with a non-running 325is near the above location.
>
> Car was running until a four way stop, sputtered and died. I paid to
> have it towed to a parking lot. She caught a ride on to her destination.
>
> Car has fuel at the fuel rail, no apparent clicking of the injectors and
> no spark (but I am nearly deaf, so the non-clicking is not a certainty).
>
> Cam spins with the cranking, oil level is good. I pulled the distributor
> cap, and it is marked as my having replaced it November last year with
> under 2K miles on it since then. That job was rebuilt head, new throttle
> body, and a lot of time chasing a bad emissions report. Problem then was
> a 1550 rpm miss that was never resolved.
>
> I am trying to fix this solo, having no one to crank it while I look at
> stuff.
>
> My initial suspicion is the crank position sensor, but would like other
> thoughts before I drive back up there.
>
> Car is an auto trans model, 163k on the car.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:17:25 +0000 (UTC)
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
My roommate's E30 had it's crank position sensor go, and the car
wouldn't start. When I pulled it, the magnet was crusted over with
crud.
When my E36 crank postion sensor went, it manifested itself as wild,
momentary surges in power. Engine "thought" it was stalling, then
flooded itself with gas. At a stop sign, it will kill the motor.
Holding the throttle to the floor in an E36 and holding the key in
start dried out the cylinder and let it start (thanks again Brett).
Did anyone try starting the motor one more time several hours after it
died?
No spark sounds like an electrical problem rather than the crank
sensor.
Marc Plante
E36 325i ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
E36 M3/4 80k
Vienna, VA
----Original Message----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sep 10, 2007 7:12
To: <[email protected]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Ed MacVaugh"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Re: [UUC] Disabled E30 near Mechanicsburg, PA
Ed,
I had a problem like that a few years ago. After testing the coil per
Bentley's instructions (it passed their specs), I had it towed to a
trusted mechanic, who tested the coil further, and decided it was bad.
How long ago was the coil replaced? If it's original, it's only $40,
so I'd replace it anyway.
Kevin
---- Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Folk,
>
> Got a daughter with a non-running 325is near the above location.
>
> Car was running until a four way stop, sputtered and died. I paid
to
> have it towed to a parking lot. She caught a ride on to her
destination.
>
> Car has fuel at the fuel rail, no apparent clicking of the injectors
and
> no spark (but I am nearly deaf, so the non-clicking is not a
certainty).
>
> Cam spins with the cranking, oil level is good. I pulled the
distributor
> cap, and it is marked as my having replaced it November last year
with
> under 2K miles on it since then. That job was rebuilt head, new
throttle
> body, and a lot of time chasing a bad emissions report. Problem then
was
> a 1550 rpm miss that was never resolved.
>
> I am trying to fix this solo, having no one to crank it while I look
at
> stuff.
>
> My initial suspicion is the crank position sensor, but would like
other
> thoughts before I drive back up there.
>
> Car is an auto trans model, 163k on the car.
Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
com
__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW
CCA.
UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:00:09 -0400
From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Craig Robson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Timing chain tensioner leak on S54
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On my S38, I replaced the tensioner with no calibration or adjustment. Just
don't crank the engine with it removed.
Gary Derian
> Question is, does anybody know if the adjuster can be removed and
> reinstalled with a new o-ring without needing to adjust anything, and what
> is the torque it needs to be reinstalled at on the S54? OR, should I just
> take it to the dealer?
>
> Craig Robson
> 01 M3
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:24:05 -0500
From: "Alex Cagann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: 97 328
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have a 97 328i convertible...went to start it today, and the odometer
display/trip is dead. You can barely see the numbers in the lcd area, but
they are not backlit now. Is there a bulb behind this unit that illuminates
it, or is the odometer display bar incorporated into a whole unit that must
be replaced?
Alex Cagann
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:28:40 -0400
From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UUC Digest <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 97 328
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There is a 1.2W backlight bulb.
Brett Anderson
KMS
Alex Cagann wrote:
> I have a 97 328i convertible...went to start it today, and the odometer
> display/trip is dead. You can barely see the numbers in the lcd area, but
> they are not backlit now. Is there a bulb behind this unit that illuminates
> it, or is the odometer display bar incorporated into a whole unit that must
> be replaced?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:18:25 -0400
From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UUC Digest <[email protected]>
Subject: Attention Bill Proud
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sorry for the WOB.
Bill, get a decent internet provider. I've tried twice to respond to
your questions and been bounced because they think koalamotorsport.com
is a spam address and they won't white list it.
--
Brett Anderson
KMS - Koala Motorsport LLC
(440) 564 7574
www.koalamotorsport.com
www.bmwdiffs.com
9988 Kinsman Rd
Novelty OH 44072
(Cleveland Area)
OSS committee member
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:16:01 -0700
From: bbarry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UUC Digest <[email protected]>
Subject: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sorry if this is a duplicate posting:
Is the engine temp taken from the fan switch or another sensor on the
head or block that reads hotter than at the radiator?
Reason for asking is in reading out engine temperature from the
diagnostic connector, I'm seeing engine temperatures that concern me.
The cooler fan switch and thermostat plus E46 radiator I put in don't
seem to run cooler than stock. The temperature when the fan kicks on
low speed is 199 to 204. Engine temps run consistently over 200,
through rarely reaching 212. I expected the fan to come on at 191 to
194 degrees. With the cooler thermostat and E46 radiator, I expected
running temperatures always below 200. Car is a '97 //M3.
tia,
Barry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:27:47 -0400
From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Engine water temp is taken from the engine sensor.
Engine temp is a function of the engine thermostat which is chosen by
the designer for engine efficiency and lowest emissions.
Putting in a larger radiator and a larger fan 9r the same fan coming on
a a lower radiator tank temperature is simply the equivalent of driving
in Chicago in February. The engine still needs to run at its best
temperature for efficient operation.
Ed
bbarry wrote:
> Sorry if this is a duplicate posting:
> Is the engine temp taken from the fan switch or another sensor on the
> head or block that reads hotter than at the radiator?
>
> Reason for asking is in reading out engine temperature from the
> diagnostic connector, I'm seeing engine temperatures that concern me.
> The cooler fan switch and thermostat plus E46 radiator I put in don't
> seem to run cooler than stock. The temperature when the fan kicks on
> low speed is 199 to 204. Engine temps run consistently over 200,
> through rarely reaching 212. I expected the fan to come on at 191 to
> 194 degrees. With the cooler thermostat and E46 radiator, I expected
> running temperatures always below 200. Car is a '97 //M3.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:17:41 -0700
From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'bbarry'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"'UUC Digest'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The engine temp going to the ecu and the h2o gauge come from the head. On
S/M50 there are two senders, on S/M52s there is one sender but it has dual
outputs that are exactly what the two on the S/M50 do.
I believe the switch on the right side of the radiator controls the fan. At
two speeds IIRC.
I also think the right side of the radiator where the switch is is the cool
side. So I wouldn't be surprised if the head temps are hotter than the
radiator. IIRC the water flow on the S/M50/52 goes from the bottom of the
block to the top of the head. So if memory serves I would expect to see
higher temps at the head than at the right side of the radiator. I remember
when building my frankenmotor I looked into using a newer block but found
out the block and head passage ways would not meet up. I did a bit of
research and IIRC BMW found that by running the crank bearings hotter it
reduced frictional losses and caused mpg to go up slightly. So they
reversed the flow of the water through the system. I also think it helped
with the well known tendency of the I6 to run "cold to hot" front to back(
cyl 1 having colder water than cyl 6.) In every S/M50/52 I've torn down the
rear cylinders always have more slop in the bore than the front cylinders.
FWIW when I went to a S54 radiator and a colder t-stat on my old S52 race
motor I would have to block off about 1/5th of the radiator at the track
when running in colder weather since the car wouldn't come up to proper temp
and I'd get misfires due to fouling plugs.
Marco
R&R'd a water pump in a E36 323 in 45 minutes today.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bbarry
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:16 PM
To: UUC Digest
Subject: [UUC] engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Sorry if this is a duplicate posting:
Is the engine temp taken from the fan switch or another sensor on the
head or block that reads hotter than at the radiator?
Reason for asking is in reading out engine temperature from the
diagnostic connector, I'm seeing engine temperatures that concern me. The
cooler fan switch and thermostat plus E46 radiator I put in don't
seem to run cooler than stock. The temperature when the fan kicks on
low speed is 199 to 204. Engine temps run consistently over 200,
through rarely reaching 212. I expected the fan to come on at 191 to
194 degrees. With the cooler thermostat and E46 radiator, I expected
running temperatures always below 200. Car is a '97 //M3.
tia,
Barry
Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short
Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
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10:17 AM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:45:48 -0400
From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"'UUC Digest'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The improved economy comes from running the cylinders hotter. That way fuel
stays vaporized. I don't think the water flow was ever reversed as that
makes bleeding the air out nearly impossible.
Gary Derian
> higher temps at the head than at the right side of the radiator. I
> remember
> when building my frankenmotor I looked into using a newer block but found
> out the block and head passage ways would not meet up. I did a bit of
> research and IIRC BMW found that by running the crank bearings hotter it
> reduced frictional losses and caused mpg to go up slightly. So they
> reversed the flow of the water through the system. I also think it helped
> with the well known tendency of the I6 to run "cold to hot" front to back(
> cyl 1 having colder water than cyl 6.) In every S/M50/52 I've torn down
> the
> rear cylinders always have more slop in the bore than the front cylinders.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:01:21 -0400
From: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'bbarry'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"'UUC Digest'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
As a point of comparison, using an aftermarket gauge and a sender located at
the thermostat housing, my '98 M3 runs consistently 190 to 205, but usually
no more than that, even in hot weather. I have a stewart high performance
water pump but OEM radiator. I didn't trust the factory gauge to give
accurate readings as it just goes up to the middle and stays there even with
real variations in temperature.
Matt Bader
98 M3/4
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bbarry
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:16 AM
To: UUC Digest
Subject: [UUC] engine temperature vs. fan switch temperature
Sorry if this is a duplicate posting:
Is the engine temp taken from the fan switch or another sensor on the
head or block that reads hotter than at the radiator?
Reason for asking is in reading out engine temperature from the
diagnostic connector, I'm seeing engine temperatures that concern me.
The cooler fan switch and thermostat plus E46 radiator I put in don't
seem to run cooler than stock. The temperature when the fan kicks on
low speed is 199 to 204. Engine temps run consistently over 200,
through rarely reaching 212. I expected the fan to come on at 191 to
194 degrees. With the cooler thermostat and E46 radiator, I expected
running temperatures always below 200. Car is a '97 //M3.
tia,
Barry
Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
------------------------------
End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(14 messages)
**********
