My favorite APL test was Sandra Pakin's reference manual: most APL
primitives were defined abstractly on one page, then examples of usage were
shown on the facing page.

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > So I'm not sure this helps you,
>
> Be sure it does.
>
> 1. I spent precious years receiving a stream of people who were not IT
> professionals, and didn't want to be, but had IT rammed down their throats.
> To wit: wives of IBM Hursley staff, who signed up for a Human Factors Lab
> subject panel.
> I briefed them, measured their IQ, then sat behind 1-way glass and watched
> them perform on a simulated IT system developed specially for HF
> experiments.
> Then I watched and edited the video, audio and keystroke logs for hours
> until I had their difficulties pinned out like butterflies.
> We published a raft of papers in IJMMS and other applied psychology
> journals. We got a mean reputation in those circles. We were the Apaches.
> More usefully, we showed cocksure programmers how people (…intelligent
> people -- we had proof of that) floundered and foundered when using their
> wonderful software. Then we helped them up off the floor and stopped them
> shooting themselves.
>
> A CIA torture chamber couldn't have done it better (we were equipped like
> one, but without the funnels and buckets of water.)
>
> It develops an attitude. Yes – I too am aware that other people tend to be
> different from me.
>
> 2. My Gilman and Rose had a red cover. I hated the book – oversized,
> expensively produced pretentious twaddle. I believe it convinced a
> generation that everything they said about APL was true. There was NOTHING
> about writing and maintaining a distributable app in it. NOTHING about
> solving meaningful problems to the vast majority of people. It was all
> "here's this stellar galactic language of the gods. Bow down and grovel."
>
> By contrast I finger APWJ (At Play With J) and Cliff Reiter's book as polar
> opposites. Those are clear-eyed, clear-voiced books that make toast of
> formidable problems which actually look useful to know something about. If
> there's one book that converted me to J, it was APWJ.
>
> (BTW they say that J-ottings is in the pipeline. I thrill to think of it.)
>
> 3. Yea…h. Concrete Math had things going for it. So did the books produced
> by the I-APL project. Alvord and Thompson. I loved Gary Helzer's manual. I
> could actually engage in Joy-in-the-Law over it.
>
> (I think I've said enough.)
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Eh... for me that was the J Dictionary, the J Concrete Math book and
> > the J Source book. But that was for me...
> >
> > (Also, before that, I'd gotten quite a lot out of the Gilman and Rose
> > book on APL (it had a red cover though - and when I search for it, I
> > find a different version with a green cover - I do not know how
> > significant the version differences are)).
> >
> > But also, I've learned long ago that other people tend to be different
> > from me.
> >
> > So I'm not sure this helps you,
> >
> > --
> > Raul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks, Joe.
> > >
> > > I have Introductions to J coming out my ears. And before that,
> > > Introductions to APL. IMFFHO they all miss the boat.
> > > I think at long last I can now write one which touches the button for a
> > > bona fide J know-nothing.
> > >
> > > Arrogance? Not a bit of it. I've simply looked at what other (more
> > > popular/successful) language systems do.
> > >
> > > In a nutshell – what we don't.
> > >
> > > IF you have a treatment to-hand which you read when you genuinely knew
> > > nothing about J
> > > ANDIF it motivated you to invest your scarce time in engaging with the
> > > language
> > > THEN I'd like to see it.
> > > ELSE.
> > > * * * * *
> > > This doesn't look good as I re-read it, I have to admit. But I'm too
> old
> > to
> > > be polite if it means not being honest.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Joe Bogner <joebog...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ah, I see. I thought to mention just in case the typical programmer
> > domain
> > >> vocabulary could be avoided or replaced with more J-like terms, which
> > seems
> > >> to intentionally have chosen simpler, more recognizable terms.  I
> > presumed
> > >> you were familiar with some of the existing material but I find it
> > useful
> > >> to refresh my memory on what's out there when starting something new.
> > >>
> > >> I'm curious, are you writing a "first-contact" text for J? I have read
> > >> through several Introduction to J type blog posts or essays over the
> > years
> > >> that I can pass along if you're interested. There may be something to
> > lift
> > >> or compare to style-wise.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Sorry, Joe, I want "common programmer terms" for "platform, program,
> > >> etc",
> > >> > i.e. terms common to all programmers, not just J-ers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Especially not J-ers!
> > >> >
> > >> > I tried looking up some of these terms in the Oxford Dictionary of
> > >> English
> > >> > (courtesy Apple) and I'm impressed. It seems it has authoritative
> but
> > >> > straightforward meanings under the subheading "Computing" for all
> I've
> > >> > tried
> > >> > .
> > >> >
> > >> > But I'm still hoping to hear what ISO standard people on this list
> > use,
> > >> or
> > >> > some standards body. I'm taking the baffled silence to mean that
> > nobody
> > >> has
> > >> > ever used such a list. The fabled precision of IT professionals
> > doesn't
> > >> > extend to terminology, it seems.
> > >> >
> > >> > Such lists exist. I've seen them – though only in German, and that
> was
> > >> > decades ago. Documenters need them for the purpose of translating
> > >> manuals.
> > >> > Though maybe the whole thing is still woolly, like it was in my day.
> > An
> > >> > Arab once told me he always used the English manual because he
> > couldn't
> > >> > make head or tail of the Arabic one.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Joe Bogner <joebog...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I went back and looked at some of the existing material
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This seems to be a good list of definitions with examples:
> > >> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/help/primer/contents.htm
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This text seems devoid of too many terms:
> > >> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/books/pdf/easyj.pdf
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Of course, I'm not reading these with "beginner eyes" so both may
> > still
> > >> > > need to be unpacked more
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:28 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > It's absurdly difficult to write a good "first-contact" text
> for J
> > >> > > without
> > >> > > > reference to a single accepted source of definitions like:
> > platform,
> > >> > > > program, app, script, variable, constant, function, array,
> string,
> > >> > > > character, number …
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Is there an ISO standard for common programmer terms (in
> English)?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > If the answer is: legion (…my first impression) – then is there
> > one
> > >> > that
> > >> > > > stands out for you?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I have an operational need for a weblink to a good clear
> published
> > >> free
> > >> > > > authoritative text. To avoid cluttering this thread, please
> don't
> > >> offer
> > >> > > > your own definitions of the above terms here (although of course
> > I'd
> > >> be
> > >> > > > frightfully interested to hear them one day.)
> > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ----------
> > >> > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> > >> forums.htm
> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > >> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> > forums.htm
> > >> > >
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> > forums.htm
> > >> >
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> forums.htm
> > >>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>



-- 

Devon McCormick, CFA

Quantitative Consultant
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Reply via email to