Sandra Pakin, and Ray Polivka, authored a number of good introductory & reference books for APL. Thanks for reminding me, Devon.
Google (bless its little cotton socks) was most helpful. There's an online copy of the APL\360 Reference Manual here: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/apl/Books/APL360ReferenceManual It lacks the lavish typographic aids we have today, but could serve as a gold-standard for future work. One could simply go through it and copy its style and layout for J – or whatever variant "one" wishes to promote. On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Devon McCormick <[email protected]> wrote: > My favorite APL test was Sandra Pakin's reference manual: most APL > primitives were defined abstractly on one page, then examples of usage were > shown on the facing page. > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > So I'm not sure this helps you, > > > > Be sure it does. > > > > 1. I spent precious years receiving a stream of people who were not IT > > professionals, and didn't want to be, but had IT rammed down their > throats. > > To wit: wives of IBM Hursley staff, who signed up for a Human Factors Lab > > subject panel. > > I briefed them, measured their IQ, then sat behind 1-way glass and > watched > > them perform on a simulated IT system developed specially for HF > > experiments. > > Then I watched and edited the video, audio and keystroke logs for hours > > until I had their difficulties pinned out like butterflies. > > We published a raft of papers in IJMMS and other applied psychology > > journals. We got a mean reputation in those circles. We were the Apaches. > > More usefully, we showed cocksure programmers how people (…intelligent > > people -- we had proof of that) floundered and foundered when using their > > wonderful software. Then we helped them up off the floor and stopped them > > shooting themselves. > > > > A CIA torture chamber couldn't have done it better (we were equipped like > > one, but without the funnels and buckets of water.) > > > > It develops an attitude. Yes – I too am aware that other people tend to > be > > different from me. > > > > 2. My Gilman and Rose had a red cover. I hated the book – oversized, > > expensively produced pretentious twaddle. I believe it convinced a > > generation that everything they said about APL was true. There was > NOTHING > > about writing and maintaining a distributable app in it. NOTHING about > > solving meaningful problems to the vast majority of people. It was all > > "here's this stellar galactic language of the gods. Bow down and grovel." > > > > By contrast I finger APWJ (At Play With J) and Cliff Reiter's book as > polar > > opposites. Those are clear-eyed, clear-voiced books that make toast of > > formidable problems which actually look useful to know something about. > If > > there's one book that converted me to J, it was APWJ. > > > > (BTW they say that J-ottings is in the pipeline. I thrill to think of > it.) > > > > 3. Yea…h. Concrete Math had things going for it. So did the books > produced > > by the I-APL project. Alvord and Thompson. I loved Gary Helzer's manual. > I > > could actually engage in Joy-in-the-Law over it. > > > > (I think I've said enough.) > > > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Eh... for me that was the J Dictionary, the J Concrete Math book and > > > the J Source book. But that was for me... > > > > > > (Also, before that, I'd gotten quite a lot out of the Gilman and Rose > > > book on APL (it had a red cover though - and when I search for it, I > > > find a different version with a green cover - I do not know how > > > significant the version differences are)). > > > > > > But also, I've learned long ago that other people tend to be different > > > from me. > > > > > > So I'm not sure this helps you, > > > > > > -- > > > Raul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Thanks, Joe. > > > > > > > > I have Introductions to J coming out my ears. And before that, > > > > Introductions to APL. IMFFHO they all miss the boat. > > > > I think at long last I can now write one which touches the button > for a > > > > bona fide J know-nothing. > > > > > > > > Arrogance? Not a bit of it. I've simply looked at what other (more > > > > popular/successful) language systems do. > > > > > > > > In a nutshell – what we don't. > > > > > > > > IF you have a treatment to-hand which you read when you genuinely > knew > > > > nothing about J > > > > ANDIF it motivated you to invest your scarce time in engaging with > the > > > > language > > > > THEN I'd like to see it. > > > > ELSE. > > > > * * * * * > > > > This doesn't look good as I re-read it, I have to admit. But I'm too > > old > > > to > > > > be polite if it means not being honest. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Joe Bogner <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Ah, I see. I thought to mention just in case the typical programmer > > > domain > > > >> vocabulary could be avoided or replaced with more J-like terms, > which > > > seems > > > >> to intentionally have chosen simpler, more recognizable terms. I > > > presumed > > > >> you were familiar with some of the existing material but I find it > > > useful > > > >> to refresh my memory on what's out there when starting something > new. > > > >> > > > >> I'm curious, are you writing a "first-contact" text for J? I have > read > > > >> through several Introduction to J type blog posts or essays over the > > > years > > > >> that I can pass along if you're interested. There may be something > to > > > lift > > > >> or compare to style-wise. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Sorry, Joe, I want "common programmer terms" for "platform, > program, > > > >> etc", > > > >> > i.e. terms common to all programmers, not just J-ers. > > > >> > > > > >> > Especially not J-ers! > > > >> > > > > >> > I tried looking up some of these terms in the Oxford Dictionary of > > > >> English > > > >> > (courtesy Apple) and I'm impressed. It seems it has authoritative > > but > > > >> > straightforward meanings under the subheading "Computing" for all > > I've > > > >> > tried > > > >> > . > > > >> > > > > >> > But I'm still hoping to hear what ISO standard people on this list > > > use, > > > >> or > > > >> > some standards body. I'm taking the baffled silence to mean that > > > nobody > > > >> has > > > >> > ever used such a list. The fabled precision of IT professionals > > > doesn't > > > >> > extend to terminology, it seems. > > > >> > > > > >> > Such lists exist. I've seen them – though only in German, and that > > was > > > >> > decades ago. Documenters need them for the purpose of translating > > > >> manuals. > > > >> > Though maybe the whole thing is still woolly, like it was in my > day. > > > An > > > >> > Arab once told me he always used the English manual because he > > > couldn't > > > >> > make head or tail of the Arabic one. > > > >> > > > > >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Joe Bogner <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > I went back and looked at some of the existing material > > > >> > > > > > >> > > This seems to be a good list of definitions with examples: > > > >> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/help/primer/contents.htm > > > >> > > > > > >> > > This text seems devoid of too many terms: > > > >> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/books/pdf/easyj.pdf > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Of course, I'm not reading these with "beginner eyes" so both > may > > > still > > > >> > > need to be unpacked more > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:28 AM, Ian Clark < > [email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > It's absurdly difficult to write a good "first-contact" text > > for J > > > >> > > without > > > >> > > > reference to a single accepted source of definitions like: > > > platform, > > > >> > > > program, app, script, variable, constant, function, array, > > string, > > > >> > > > character, number … > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Is there an ISO standard for common programmer terms (in > > English)? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > If the answer is: legion (…my first impression) – then is > there > > > one > > > >> > that > > > >> > > > stands out for you? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I have an operational need for a weblink to a good clear > > published > > > >> free > > > >> > > > authoritative text. To avoid cluttering this thread, please > > don't > > > >> offer > > > >> > > > your own definitions of the above terms here (although of > course > > > I'd > > > >> be > > > >> > > > frightfully interested to hear them one day.) > > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> ---------- > > > >> > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > > > >> forums.htm > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---------- > > > >> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > > > forums.htm > > > >> > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---------- > > > >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > > > forums.htm > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > > forums.htm > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > -- > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > Quantitative Consultant > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
