Hi, Julie and List,
Well, I think all of this is true; one only has to look at the
analogies in "Canine Structure and Terminology" the famous treastise on
canine structure to see all the analogies to horses in movement and
structure. Certainly, knowing how to read a pedigree, read nuritional
requirements (I calculated all my own NRC requirements for each horse
years ago), understand veterinary language and first aid, and animal
training in general is helpful in understanding canines. Knowing
anatomy surely helps understand how to read a breed standard. But I
think that the singular thing that stands out for me is the fact that
once having spent a long time in the horse world one developes an
enormous amount of patience and determination. One already knows it is
going to take years to get it right.
I began with my first pet Cavalier in early 1997, got our first two
show dogs in early 1998 (yes, after going to shows and such and still??
LOL)who were shown and neither of whom can be bred. I whelped my first
litter last December. I knew there would be a learning curve, and still
know how much there is to know. (I figure that the more one knows the
more one knows there is to know! <G>)
I could go on and on with analogies to showing and training......half
halt on the reins is a lot like what a good handler learns to slow down
a dog, etc.
But there are certainly differences. What amazes me is that many in
one breed aren't interested in any others. I can't imagine why this
is? I love to learn about the other breeds of dogs and see how they are
handled, etc. It is very rare in horses that someone is only interested
in their own breed and not all horses in general.
Suze
Julie Sturman wrote:
>
> I've never owned horses but know people who do and it seems to me that
> breeding, showing, AND all the politics and silliness that goes with it is
> the same be it horses, canaries, or cavaliers.
> Why would you think it's different? Cavaliers are not unique - they are
> just one of many breeds of pure bred animals that people like us seem to need.
> Julie
>
> At 02:41 PM 10/1/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >I have never been able to understand what breeding and owning horses has got
> >to do with Cavaliers!
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Terri Taylor Easterbrooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 1:27 PM
> >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] co-owning and other strings.....
> >
> >
> > > Bravo, Suze. Been right there with you, and I agree
> > > 100%. Lucky for me, a top UK breeder trusted me with
> > > a wonderful bitch to start, with NO STRINGS, plenty of
> > > mentoring, albeit from afar, and no headache coown!!!!
> > >
> > > Sad to not have been able to start here at home. I do
> > > coown one dog, and will never do it again.
> > >
> > > I find lots of chastizing, and innuendo that because I
> > > am new to the breed, I WILL NOT possibly do what is
> > > best for the breed. The proof will be in the pudding
> > > on that one. But until my litters come along, I do the
> > > testing, learn what I can, and do my own thing. Just
> > > read the posts on the list to see that noone agrees
> > > with anyone and the way they do things, so why would
> > > anyone care to try to please these people? Not me, and
> > > thank god I can sleep at night by doing what I believe
> > > is best for my dogs and my perception of the needs of
> > > the breed. In the meantime, great, caring people like
> > > Suze and myself, who may be newcomers to breeding
> > > dogs, but had many successful years with horses,
> > > continue to grow further apart from the Club
> > > orientated religous type mentality. If it's not our
> > > way, its no way. Yeah , right.
> > >
> > > Sorry for implying I am speaking on your behalf
> > > there, Suze. You know me, insert foot in mouth as
> > > always! Never know how to get my point across without
> > > causing some contoversy on this list!
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Terri Easterbrooks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Terri Taylor-Easterbrooks
> > > --- "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Hi, Peggy,
> > > > I have great respect for you as a dog
> > > > person. However, I have to say
> > > > that here I believe you are very wrong. Blaming the
> > > > victim of a scam is
> > > > NOT going to help it from occuring. Do you think
> > > > that it is only stupid
> > > > people who get scammed? You REALLY think that
> > > > victims of such schemes
> > > > should be ashamed?
> > > > This is the same rationale that people apply
> > > > to women who are raped.
> > > > "She deserved it, that flirt".
> > > > So, let's examine how this might happen.
> > > > Someone comes into Cavaliers
> > > > from another breed. In their breed a top producing
> > > > bitch/dog might cost
> > > > quite a bit. Of course, they want to begin their
> > > > foundation with the
> > > > best that they can get. This is only the RIGHT way
> > > > to go about things.
> > > > One looks for the best with which to begin. Herein
> > > > lies the problem;
> > > > one cannot learn Cavalier pedigrees and top dogs and
> > > > breed problems
> > > > overnight so must TRUST someone to help decipher
> > > > this. Most breeders
> > > > don't have the time of DAY for someone who wants a
> > > > show prospect. So,
> > > > this leaves the door wide open to the "kind, helpful
> > > > and highly
> > > > informative" breeder who was "not going to sell this
> > > > pup from her top
> > > > producing champion" BUT.......in "YOUR case as you
> > > > have spent so much
> > > > time and effort trying to get involved", I'll help
> > > > you........................right into a puppy
> > > > pyramid scheme. The pups
> > > > arrive, the contract doesn't. Mentoring is
> > > > discussed in depth but never
> > > > happens.
> > > > I'm about to hear a lecture on
> > > > patience...............I can smell it
> > > > coming. OK.....so you think perhaps "patience" is
> > > > just an amount of
> > > > time? One should spend years on the phone waiting
> > > > for someone to take
> > > > time for them? I'd rather spend the time learning,
> > > > so how can you do
> > > > that if no one will talk to you? It isn't necessary
> > > > to BUY your dog
> > > > fast, but one doesn't want to spend years waiting to
> > > > LEARN about the
> > > > breed? Yes, go to shows, meet people.........but
> > > > how many people will
> > > > take time to keep corresponding with someone who
> > > > wants their first
> > > > Cavalier for six months? I have done this,
> > > > incidentally.....people from
> > > > other breeds who know it takes time to get a good
> > > > pup will ask questions
> > > > for months on end. GOOD for them. However, I will
> > > > take the time to
> > > > discuss this with them and from what they say this
> > > > is not common.
> > > > AND.........since I am relatively new to the breed
> > > > in comparison with
> > > > others, *I* am not the ideal one to whom they should
> > > > be speaking.
> > > > So........now you are blaming the people who
> > > > took the time to TRY to
> > > > find the best foundation for their breeding AND pay
> > > > the most they could
> > > > afford??? Excuse me? Did you want them to shop for
> > > > bargains in
> > > > beginning their program? What, exactly, DO you
> > > > think they should have
> > > > done to get their first foundation dogs? After
> > > > calling twenty or more
> > > > breeders to ask for help; WHAT should they have
> > > > done?
> > > >
> > > > I'm eagerly awaiting suggestions for the list of
> > > > about six folks who
> > > > want to get into Cavaliers with whom I'm
> > > > corresponding. Perhaps you'd
> > > > like to spend six or seven months mentoring them?
> > > >
> > > > Suze
> > > >
> > > > Peggy Mickelson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave's comments about co-owning, not being able
> > > > to buy a dog outright, and puppy back arrangements
> > > > are all pretty true......however, I don't think we
> > > > should all sit here and castigate only the breeders.
> > > > Some of the blame has to be applied to the buyers,
> > > > too. When I hear some of the "deals" people enter
> > > > into I am amazed at the stupidity of anyone who
> > > > would enter into such an arrangement. Maybe
> > > > stupidity isn't the right word, maybe I should say
> > > > lack of interest in searching further, or maybe just
> > > > gullibility.
> > > > > I marvel at the ability of some breeders who
> > > > can bamboozle puppy buyers into such arrangements.
> > > > > I marvel even more at how anyone on earth can
> > > > be convinced to enter into these contracts. I think
> > > > they must buy their cars from used car salesmen in
> > > > loud plaid suits with bad haircuts and bad skin,
> > > > too, at prices that are higher than the cars were
> > > > when they came off the assembly line!
> > > > > Co-ownership should be for the convenience of
> > > > both parties...not for the greediness of one and
> > > > the.......what?.......of the other.
> > > > > There are successful co-ownerships now, and
> > > > there always have been. However, only in Cavaliers
> > > > have I heard of the kind of co-ownership where the
> > > > buyer has to give back whole litters, or the
> > > > majority of the first three litters, etc. All the
> > > > advantages in most Cavalier co-ownerships seem to
> > > > lie with the breeder of the co-owned dog. Of
> > > > course, the people who have been suckered into these
> > > > contracts will be proud to tell you what a generous
> > > > person the co-owner is and how they couldn't have
> > > > owned little PoopsieAnne in any other way, etc.
> > > > > I guess when you've made a fool of yourself
> > > > you have to make it look good somehow.
> > > > > To me and to many others it will always look as if
> > > > those people walked around with one of those signs
> > > > on their backs (or maybe foreheads) that says "I'm
> > > > an idiot, come and take advantage of me." So
> > > > someone did.
> > > > > Peggy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > =========================================================
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers
> > > > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is
> > > > not enough for a man
> > > > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica
> > > > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > =====
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> >Champion bred Cavalier King Charles Spaniels & The Antique Horse Source.
> > >
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--
Suze at Llawen Cavaliers
"...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man
to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica
"Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear
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