On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 16:44, Mark Roth <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 2:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Brodie, Kent wrote:
>>
>> > An observation: I took the RHCE, and thought it was awesome - as in,
>> > intense.
>> >
>> > Example1: We were given a huge lists of tasks to set up for a new
>> > system/server. On a normal business day, I would expect to see that
>> > list, and tell the user, "I'll have this by sometime tomorrow". The
>> > RHCE list for the new setup, however, was as extensive, but you only
>> > were given something like 90 minutes.
>> >
>> > Example2: We were given another system that was broken. VERY broken.
>> > The room was filled with sysadmins. By the end of the timeframe, half
>> > of the room still had not gotten their boxes to run.
>> >
>> > I think out of 11 of us, only 6 passed [including me]. The instructor
>> > said something before the test that stuck with me, it was something
>> > along the lines of "During the test, you'll have full access to the
>> > documentation set(s) as well as any of the man pages for RedHat. But,
>> > I'll give you a clue- if you need to check the documentation often,
>> > you'll never have enough time to complete the test and pass... you
>> > just need to KNOW this stuff."
>>
>> unless this stuff is really stuff that you would need day in and day out,
>> I think this is the wrong priority. I haven't gone through this, but I
>> would also be concerned if this was designed to primarily use the redhat
>> config GUI.
>>
>> I've known quite a few people who passed this sort of test (or would have
>> come close), but who were completely helpless if they didn't have access
>> to the GUI, and correspondingly, these same people were helpless a couple
>> of years later when a new release changed the GUI significantly.
>>
>> I'd much prefer someone who understood *nix and had to find/lookup where
>> the config file is on distro X the first few times over someone who knows
>> one distro inside and out, but can't get started on another one.
>>
>> the first type of person will probably come up to speed very quickly as
>> they work with a new distro, the second type may never pick it up.
>
> I think this is a key point: When I'm interviewing people, I'm looking for
> people who can *think*, because they'll be able to pick up any skill that
> the organization may happen to need at any point. I really don't care if
> they happen to know any particular skill that may be relevant to the
> organization right now, because I'd expect them to pick it up quickly when
> they come on board. Also, that particular skill may no longer be relevant
> in the future, and if I base my hiring decisions on a particular skill, I
> have no guarantee that I'm getting someone who can learn new skills as new
> things come along.
I thought I would chime in with my comments from the survey, as this
sort of follows on with what David and Mark have said:
> 4. What is your perception of UNIX and Linux related certifications?
Some value...maybe. The problem is that vendor certifications may be
useful for one distro, but with another distro the admin won't "speak
the language". At the same time, a good analytical admin experienced
with one or more distros will easily be able to "unravel" and manage
any distro, whether or not they have prior experience with that
distro. LPI, I think, started off well. But they may have focused
too much on shell command basics on the level 1 and 2, and focused
almost exclusively on LDAP and Samba for level 3 (at least the last
time I looked.) When considering a data center environment, there are
_so_ many more "core services" than just LDAP or Samba, but I don't
think there are any "independent" certifications that really measure
or capture the general knowledge of how the pieces fit together. (I
haven't looked at RedHat, in detail...yet...but if ${workplace} pays
for it...then I'm in.)
> 5. What's your perception of value of the concept of UNIX and Linux
> certifications to the field of system administration. Not current
> certifications, but the idea of certifications in general.
It _could_ have great value. But my comments on item 4 also apply
here. No certification that I am aware of does much to measure
analytic ability. So strictly relying on certifications will short
change many talented professionals, and short change the companies
that might have benefited from hiring them. At the same time,
vendor-neutral certifications that cover core services and
architectures...and at least some of the "best practices" for
combining said services could be very useful and informative.
As far as whether I would view certifications in a positive or
negative light, I currently am not involved in hiring. However, I
strongly believe in the "use it or lose it" model of knowledge
retention. I would not automatically view certifications in a
negative light, but I wouldn't put any faith in the certifications
without recent supporting experience. As an example, if I were
reviewing a resume where the candidate had the LPI Level 3 cert., then
supposedly they are well versed in administering LDAP...at least the
last time I looked at LPI requirements.
However, if that person's most recent 3-5 years experience (since
becoming certified) with distributed authentication and configuration
exclusively used NIS and netgroups, I'm going to expect that most of
their LDAP knowledge is mostly gone...and what knowledge remains has
long since exceeded it's shelf life. Of course, if they were just
certified last month, I would still expect that certification to mean
something. But not 3-5 years down the road with no use of that
knowledge, since then.
But I do _not_ think it is wise or fair to automatically penalize
certified candidates.
>
>>
>> David Lang
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>
>
>
> --
> Mark D. Roth <[email protected]>
> http://www.feep.net/~roth/
>
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>
--Aaron McCaleb
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