It may also be worth mentioning to the landlord that our electrical usage won't be this high all year round, if it is in fact temperature dependent. 2 or 3 months of the year isn't that much. Maybe a compromise could be to pay up to 60% or whatever of the bill during July and August? Just my thoughts.
-DrWest On Aug 24, 2012 10:19 PM, "Michael Loney" <[email protected]> wrote: > Moving air in and out at night is a great plan! The downside is that > someone needs to be there in the evening around 10pm to start it up and > then in the morning around 5-6am to shut it down. If you run it all day you > lose everything you planned for. > > With some simple controls we can automate it as well if we have enough box > fans. > > G Mike > > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Michael Kozakewich < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> We are using lots of power because >> -Lights >> -AC >> -Fridges >> >> The AC and Fridges are working hard because it’s 30 degrees in the space, >> even when it’s cooler outside. What can we do about moving air from outside >> to inside, and vice versa? I mean really, we need box fans in all the >> windows, pushing and pulling air. >> At about 132 W per fan, it would be drastically more power-efficient than >> air conditioners, though it would only work at night. >> >> Are all the windows 17”x31”, or just those in the classroom? >> >> *From:* Michael Loney <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 5:40 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Electrical at 125 Adelaide >> >> I meant more in usage for people being there, lights, computers, >> projector and extra heating based on the doors being open more often. I >> know we will not be using the AC units but there may be more usage of >> everything else. >> >> G Mike >> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Colin Stanners <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Right now I think we're using more like the maximum of power: 3 big >>> and 3 small AC units, and 4 fridges running much more than usual (hard >>> to guess - 3x, 5x?) to cool themselves down when it was so hot in the >>> space. In the winter we'd only be using heaters, and with >>> re-distribution of the server/elec room heat I think we'd find >>> ourselves pretty warm. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Michael Loney <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > Not to be a stick in the mud... >>> > >>> > TL;DR >>> > Spend in g money on a bill that is not ours is a bad move. >>> > This definitely needs a vote to pass. >>> > The gas bill has not verified yet. It may be more than we >>> budgeted >>> > for. >>> > >>> > When we signed the lease the landlord was aware that we would be >>> using >>> > some average amount power and included it in the lease anyway. While >>> being >>> > the nice people we are, if we start paying an extra $250 /mo for rent >>> it >>> > will start to affect everything we do, renovations, events, projects, >>> etc. >>> > The lease is only for 3 years and if we start paying now then if we >>> renew >>> > the rent will be much higher and the power will not be included >>> anymore. We >>> > have all done the calculations to death and determined we are not >>> using 'too >>> > much' power but we are closer to the average for the floor area. Remco >>> is >>> > not a new company, they probably have charts of typical power usage >>> based on >>> > floor space vs function ( office, warehouse, etc) and they still >>> convinced >>> > Marvin to sign it. >>> > >>> > If they did not do their homework on the deal then why should we >>> be >>> > paying for their mistake? I agree with reducing our usage as best we >>> can by >>> > putting timers on the A/C units to reduce the ON time but I think the >>> lights >>> > on Assent Works side have to be on for the insurance policy to be in >>> place >>> > (Mike please correct me if I am wrong) Currently we are using a >>> minimum of >>> > power and in the winter as the space gets more active, the power bill >>> will >>> > simply increase and we will be back at the table with the same problem >>> > again. Also we need to anticipate the gas bill in the coming months >>> before >>> > promising any other payments. >>> > >>> > I know we have the 6 month clause and it was decided not to put >>> any >>> > provisos in place to prevent this exact thing from happening. They >>> have all >>> > the power in this situation. I don't want to see us lose the space >>> over this >>> > ( I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into it! ) But bending to the >>> > landlord over a problem that is 100% on them ( and Remco ) will just >>> keep us >>> > on the short end of the stick for at least the next 3 years. >>> > >>> > I know time is short before the meeting with the landlord but I >>> don't >>> > think we can simply have an quick executive decision on this one as it >>> is >>> > not an emergency. Agreeing to pay more will extend our time to >>> completion on >>> > renovations for sure and set a bad precedence for future situations. >>> > >>> > All that said, I know Assent Works has much, much more invested >>> than we >>> > do and to maintain a partnership with them we need to be supportive. >>> > >>> > G Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Sounds good. $250, or 60% of the bill, is a sane maximum in my >>> opinion. If >>> >> 60% of our bill ever turns out to be more than $250, we're doing >>> something >>> >> wrong. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> We will be arguing for a percentage. $250 extra is the max we will go >>> >>> if it comes to it. >>> >>> >>> >>> This is an excellent observation and will work well in the >>> >>> discussions. Yes, 800-850 is combined. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24 August 2012 15:34, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > We can afford it. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Am I correct in assuming $800-$850/mo is skullspace's and >>> assentworks's >>> >>> > combined charge? >>> >>> > Have you and Mike considered offering to pay a percentage of the >>> bill >>> >>> > rather >>> >>> > than a fixed rate? >>> >>> > >>> >>> > If my assumptions are correct, we're now offering to pay 60% of our >>> >>> > usage. >>> >>> > If we go through with our 1/3 reduction plans, we will be paying >>> 90% of >>> >>> > the >>> >>> > bill. This seems high. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Andrew Orr <[email protected]> >>> >>> > wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> How many members do we even have? I know there's been a few >>> people who >>> >>> >> have left recently. Can we even afford this with our current >>> >>> >> membership and >>> >>> >> the budget we worked out? >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Ron <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I personally have no problem with you making the offer, provided >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> says it's a reasonable commitment financially. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2012-08-24 14:24, Justin Lacko wrote: >>> >>> >>> > This is an important follow-up to earlier discussions >>> involving the >>> >>> >>> > cost of electrical on our floor. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > As you may know, Mike Legary and myself are meeting with >>> Marvin, >>> >>> >>> > our >>> >>> >>> > landlord on Tuesday afternoon to discuss the electrical bills. >>> >>> >>> > Today I >>> >>> >>> > received the most recent electrical bill (we are billed >>> monthly) >>> >>> >>> > which >>> >>> >>> > came in at around $1100. This bill includes cre8ery's usage, >>> plus >>> >>> >>> > public building usage (garage lights, etc). Today Mike Legary >>> also >>> >>> >>> > had >>> >>> >>> > an electrician come and accurately measure our power usage on >>> the >>> >>> >>> > floor. The results are that with AW running its lights always >>> and >>> >>> >>> > regular use of their equipment, they are consuming roughly the >>> same >>> >>> >>> > amount of electricity as SkullSpace is, which is 36A per group >>> (36A >>> >>> >>> > SkSp, 36A AW). Our rough estimated electrical bills has been >>> >>> >>> > calculated at $800-$850/mo. at peak use. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > What all of this means in the simplest terms is that the >>> landlord >>> >>> >>> > is >>> >>> >>> > losing money on our lease, which is not good. This would very >>> >>> >>> > easily >>> >>> >>> > be a good reason to terminate our lease. Mike Legary estimated >>> the >>> >>> >>> > landlord currently making $0.50/sq. ft. on the space, and with >>> >>> >>> > taxes >>> >>> >>> > at $0.70/sq. ft., which results in negative profit. In the >>> upcoming >>> >>> >>> > meeting, the landlord will almost certainly be asking for a >>> >>> >>> > reduction >>> >>> >>> > of our usage. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > The suggestion that we will be making on Tuesday's meeting is >>> that >>> >>> >>> > SkSp & AW will pay for a certain portion of the electrical in >>> order >>> >>> >>> > to >>> >>> >>> > alleviate the problem of the landlord losing money. Don't >>> forget >>> >>> >>> > that >>> >>> >>> > our lease has a 6-month clause which means that the landlord >>> could >>> >>> >>> > terminate on us at any time. Our max offered contribution >>> towards >>> >>> >>> > the >>> >>> >>> > electrical bill will be $250/mo. per group, meaning a $500 >>> >>> >>> > contribution from the floor. Again, we are doing this so that >>> we >>> >>> >>> > appear as the "good guys" who are recognising that the >>> landlord is >>> >>> >>> > not >>> >>> >>> > making money on us, and primarily we are doing this so that we >>> >>> >>> > don't >>> >>> >>> > lose our lease. AssentWorks has already agreed to this amount, >>> and >>> >>> >>> > we >>> >>> >>> > need SkullSpace to be on board by Monday so that we can take >>> this >>> >>> >>> > offer to the meeting on Tuesday. If SkullSpace does not agree >>> to >>> >>> >>> > this >>> >>> >>> > and AssentWorks does, not only will it look bad on our part >>> when >>> >>> >>> > talking to the landlord, but it will almost certainly result >>> in the >>> >>> >>> > loss of our lease. The other added part to this agreement is >>> for >>> >>> >>> > both >>> >>> >>> > sides to reduce electrical consumption by 1/3 (the amount we >>> will >>> >>> >>> > bring to the table). This isn't as hard as it sounds; we have >>> old >>> >>> >>> > lighting taking up double the power of new lights; and lighting >>> >>> >>> > could >>> >>> >>> > be put on motion sensors as AssentWorks will be doing. We could >>> >>> >>> > also >>> >>> >>> > properly ventilate our server room which will result in reduced >>> >>> >>> > workload on the machines and save us money. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > Unfortunately this issue is not one that can wait for a formal >>> >>> >>> > meeting >>> >>> >>> > vote by members; Mike Legary and I need to go into this as >>> being on >>> >>> >>> > the same page in order to present a concerted response. Part >>> of our >>> >>> >>> > discussions will also focus on increased electrical due to the >>> >>> >>> > landlord's decision to install space heaters, bad windows, etc. >>> >>> >>> > etc. >>> >>> >>> > Mike and I will work hard for SkSp and AW to bargain as best >>> as we >>> >>> >>> > can >>> >>> >>> > in this process and also ensure that our upcoming electrical >>> plans >>> >>> >>> > do >>> >>> >>> > not render these discussions moot. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > I will try my best to answer all questions pertaining to this >>> as >>> >>> >>> > best >>> >>> >>> > as I can. >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > Thanks, >>> >>> >>> > Justin >>> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> >>> > Help: >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> >>> > Archive: >>> >>> >>> > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> >>> Help: >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> >>> Archive: >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> >> Help: >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> >> Archive: >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> > Archive: >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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