Those little timers are cheap enough (and I don’t know if we really need the
whole hydroponics setup, at the moment, which is using two such timers. Only
one little plant left).
From: Michael Loney
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Electrical at 125 Adelaide
Moving air in and out at night is a great plan! The downside is that someone
needs to be there in the evening around 10pm to start it up and then in the
morning around 5-6am to shut it down. If you run it all day you lose everything
you planned for.
With some simple controls we can automate it as well if we have enough box fans.
G Mike
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Michael Kozakewich
<[email protected]> wrote:
We are using lots of power because
-Lights
-AC
-Fridges
The AC and Fridges are working hard because it’s 30 degrees in the space,
even when it’s cooler outside. What can we do about moving air from outside to
inside, and vice versa? I mean really, we need box fans in all the windows,
pushing and pulling air.
At about 132 W per fan, it would be drastically more power-efficient than air
conditioners, though it would only work at night.
Are all the windows 17”x31”, or just those in the classroom?
From: Michael Loney
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Electrical at 125 Adelaide
I meant more in usage for people being there, lights, computers, projector
and extra heating based on the doors being open more often. I know we will not
be using the AC units but there may be more usage of everything else.
G Mike
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Colin Stanners <[email protected]> wrote:
Right now I think we're using more like the maximum of power: 3 big
and 3 small AC units, and 4 fridges running much more than usual (hard
to guess - 3x, 5x?) to cool themselves down when it was so hot in the
space. In the winter we'd only be using heaters, and with
re-distribution of the server/elec room heat I think we'd find
ourselves pretty warm.
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Michael Loney <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Not to be a stick in the mud...
>
> TL;DR
> Spend in g money on a bill that is not ours is a bad move.
> This definitely needs a vote to pass.
> The gas bill has not verified yet. It may be more than we
budgeted
> for.
>
> When we signed the lease the landlord was aware that we would be
using
> some average amount power and included it in the lease anyway. While being
> the nice people we are, if we start paying an extra $250 /mo for rent it
> will start to affect everything we do, renovations, events, projects, etc.
> The lease is only for 3 years and if we start paying now then if we renew
> the rent will be much higher and the power will not be included anymore.
We
> have all done the calculations to death and determined we are not using
'too
> much' power but we are closer to the average for the floor area. Remco is
> not a new company, they probably have charts of typical power usage based
on
> floor space vs function ( office, warehouse, etc) and they still convinced
> Marvin to sign it.
>
> If they did not do their homework on the deal then why should we be
> paying for their mistake? I agree with reducing our usage as best we can
by
> putting timers on the A/C units to reduce the ON time but I think the
lights
> on Assent Works side have to be on for the insurance policy to be in place
> (Mike please correct me if I am wrong) Currently we are using a minimum of
> power and in the winter as the space gets more active, the power bill will
> simply increase and we will be back at the table with the same problem
> again. Also we need to anticipate the gas bill in the coming months before
> promising any other payments.
>
> I know we have the 6 month clause and it was decided not to put any
> provisos in place to prevent this exact thing from happening. They have
all
> the power in this situation. I don't want to see us lose the space over
this
> ( I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into it! ) But bending to the
> landlord over a problem that is 100% on them ( and Remco ) will just keep
us
> on the short end of the stick for at least the next 3 years.
>
> I know time is short before the meeting with the landlord but I don't
> think we can simply have an quick executive decision on this one as it is
> not an emergency. Agreeing to pay more will extend our time to completion
on
> renovations for sure and set a bad precedence for future situations.
>
> All that said, I know Assent Works has much, much more invested than
we
> do and to maintain a partnership with them we need to be supportive.
>
> G Mike
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds good. $250, or 60% of the bill, is a sane maximum in my opinion.
If
>> 60% of our bill ever turns out to be more than $250, we're doing
something
>> wrong.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> We will be arguing for a percentage. $250 extra is the max we will go
>>> if it comes to it.
>>>
>>> This is an excellent observation and will work well in the
>>> discussions. Yes, 800-850 is combined.
>>>
>>> On 24 August 2012 15:34, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > We can afford it.
>>> >
>>> > Am I correct in assuming $800-$850/mo is skullspace's and
assentworks's
>>> > combined charge?
>>> > Have you and Mike considered offering to pay a percentage of the bill
>>> > rather
>>> > than a fixed rate?
>>> >
>>> > If my assumptions are correct, we're now offering to pay 60% of our
>>> > usage.
>>> > If we go through with our 1/3 reduction plans, we will be paying 90%
of
>>> > the
>>> > bill. This seems high.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Andrew Orr <[email protected]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> How many members do we even have? I know there's been a few people
who
>>> >> have left recently. Can we even afford this with our current
>>> >> membership and
>>> >> the budget we worked out?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I personally have no problem with you making the offer, provided Jay
>>> >>> says it's a reasonable commitment financially.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ron
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2012-08-24 14:24, Justin Lacko wrote:
>>> >>> > This is an important follow-up to earlier discussions involving
the
>>> >>> > cost of electrical on our floor.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > As you may know, Mike Legary and myself are meeting with Marvin,
>>> >>> > our
>>> >>> > landlord on Tuesday afternoon to discuss the electrical bills.
>>> >>> > Today I
>>> >>> > received the most recent electrical bill (we are billed monthly)
>>> >>> > which
>>> >>> > came in at around $1100. This bill includes cre8ery's usage, plus
>>> >>> > public building usage (garage lights, etc). Today Mike Legary also
>>> >>> > had
>>> >>> > an electrician come and accurately measure our power usage on the
>>> >>> > floor. The results are that with AW running its lights always and
>>> >>> > regular use of their equipment, they are consuming roughly the
same
>>> >>> > amount of electricity as SkullSpace is, which is 36A per group
(36A
>>> >>> > SkSp, 36A AW). Our rough estimated electrical bills has been
>>> >>> > calculated at $800-$850/mo. at peak use.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > What all of this means in the simplest terms is that the landlord
>>> >>> > is
>>> >>> > losing money on our lease, which is not good. This would very
>>> >>> > easily
>>> >>> > be a good reason to terminate our lease. Mike Legary estimated the
>>> >>> > landlord currently making $0.50/sq. ft. on the space, and with
>>> >>> > taxes
>>> >>> > at $0.70/sq. ft., which results in negative profit. In the
upcoming
>>> >>> > meeting, the landlord will almost certainly be asking for a
>>> >>> > reduction
>>> >>> > of our usage.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The suggestion that we will be making on Tuesday's meeting is that
>>> >>> > SkSp & AW will pay for a certain portion of the electrical in
order
>>> >>> > to
>>> >>> > alleviate the problem of the landlord losing money. Don't forget
>>> >>> > that
>>> >>> > our lease has a 6-month clause which means that the landlord could
>>> >>> > terminate on us at any time. Our max offered contribution towards
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > electrical bill will be $250/mo. per group, meaning a $500
>>> >>> > contribution from the floor. Again, we are doing this so that we
>>> >>> > appear as the "good guys" who are recognising that the landlord is
>>> >>> > not
>>> >>> > making money on us, and primarily we are doing this so that we
>>> >>> > don't
>>> >>> > lose our lease. AssentWorks has already agreed to this amount, and
>>> >>> > we
>>> >>> > need SkullSpace to be on board by Monday so that we can take this
>>> >>> > offer to the meeting on Tuesday. If SkullSpace does not agree to
>>> >>> > this
>>> >>> > and AssentWorks does, not only will it look bad on our part when
>>> >>> > talking to the landlord, but it will almost certainly result in
the
>>> >>> > loss of our lease. The other added part to this agreement is for
>>> >>> > both
>>> >>> > sides to reduce electrical consumption by 1/3 (the amount we will
>>> >>> > bring to the table). This isn't as hard as it sounds; we have old
>>> >>> > lighting taking up double the power of new lights; and lighting
>>> >>> > could
>>> >>> > be put on motion sensors as AssentWorks will be doing. We could
>>> >>> > also
>>> >>> > properly ventilate our server room which will result in reduced
>>> >>> > workload on the machines and save us money.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Unfortunately this issue is not one that can wait for a formal
>>> >>> > meeting
>>> >>> > vote by members; Mike Legary and I need to go into this as being
on
>>> >>> > the same page in order to present a concerted response. Part of
our
>>> >>> > discussions will also focus on increased electrical due to the
>>> >>> > landlord's decision to install space heaters, bad windows, etc.
>>> >>> > etc.
>>> >>> > Mike and I will work hard for SkSp and AW to bargain as best as we
>>> >>> > can
>>> >>> > in this process and also ensure that our upcoming electrical plans
>>> >>> > do
>>> >>> > not render these discussions moot.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I will try my best to answer all questions pertaining to this as
>>> >>> > best
>>> >>> > as I can.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Thanks,
>>> >>> > Justin
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>>> >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>>> >>> > Archive:
>>> >>> > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>>> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>>> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>>> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
