Hello Cor,

I have seen a "dust to dust" comparison of the inputs necessary to "have" a
particular mdoel of car.

They were as absolutely thorough as they could be.  Like giving the Scion
xB credit for not like to be painted an repaired over its life by virtue of
the people that would own it - as compared to say a Hummer which - due to
its profligate attitude will be pampered with much washing, and definitely
repaired to concours condition for many low mileage years.

Interesting and not surprising to many EV types, the Prius was found
slightly less environmentally favorable than said Hummer.

The Scions also got credit for their sales effort that did not support much
dealer effort, being mostly an online, no haggle experience (made it hard
to get attention when you went to a dealer looking at them).

Despite your complaint of bean counting, there is more to the energy debt
cause by a product than its mere manufacture.

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 3:11 AM, Cor van de Water via EV

> Michael,
> Of course - but the energy balance is just a theoretical concept,
> a beancounter's satisfaction if you will of checking that the
> two sides of a scale balance out - with exact specified quantities
> on each side of the scale, no matter whether that is practical.
> It is also a means to get a feeling when you install a solar system,
> how much energy it needs to produce before it has earned back
> the energy that went into making it.
> Something to feel-good about when naysayers claim that you are
> generating a net loss with all those high-energy-content panels
> on the roof - so it is also used to support the claim that after
> some 1-2 years, the panels have generated more energy than
> they ever costed, so it is not a net-energy-loss as some claim.
> Whatever your inclination - there is a whole world out there that
> is not accounted for when considering narrow definitions, so for
> a lot of practical applications, this is moot.
> Most people look at the money and see that their system
> generates money after approx 7 years. So they are happy and
> whoever says "but it is an energy sink" gets the reply:
> and what is your car? Both and energy and money sink.
> At least the solar panels are generating money (and energy)...
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> <http://www.proxim.com>
> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
> <http://www.cvandewater.infom>
> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 12:33 PM
> To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar roadways.
> Thank you Cor,
> This is just me experimenting with the ideas....
> Can we really disregard the energy cost of all those other items making
> up the totla cost?
> I guess can see leaving out profit (which is sort an excess since
> everyone involved already put food on the table, got medical care, and
> so on. The people drawing the profit may not have undertaken the PV at
> all without the promise of profit, so maybe that too is part of the cost
> - energy wise, but it isn't clearly so); but the energy to transport the
> panels afterward, to market them, to shuffle salesmen and installers
> around, the energy cost of the inverters, disconnects wiring, lights and
> heating in the installers physical plant.  Wouldn't all these be
> foregone if the panels were never made?
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Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
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