Hey Peri

I agree there has been some reduction in dirty energy (our province was 90%
coal for power just 10 years ago).  We have a link between Newfoundland
established where they are setting up a major hydro project, but that
environmental concerns of its own.  We have wind and solar as well but NS
power gives very little for feed in rates and has proposed capping on the
size on installations.  The major problem is that the Federal government is
mandating a carbon tax and where NS has been using efficiency NS and has
reduced power, they argue they should be excluded.  It  somewhat makes
sense however our carbon power systems will remain online longer and EV
carbon efficiency & adoption will potentially suffer.

Thanks
Dan


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> First, congrats to NS for a great program. That's significant to use 9%
> less energy for the province than in 2008. The first thought that comes to
> mind for increased energy demand is to use the grid and buy it elsewhere.
> Ultimately, the carbon based plants in NS will need to be replaced but the
> grid will likely need improving, too. Why not do that first? People who
> choose can even by green power using RECs. In the mean time, solar and wind
> will become even more effective than today, giving a better return on
> investment if built-out later.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Dan Baker via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Cc: "Dan Baker" <vmd...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 03-Jan-18 7:38:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>
> So we have an interesting conundrum in my province (Nova Scotia).  NS
>> decided to concentrate their efforts on saving energy instead of cleaning
>> it up first.  This makes sense as the most efficient watt is the watt that
>> was never used which I agree with.  They created an organization called
>> Efficiency Nova Scotia, which helps our sole power company's residential
>> and business customers save energy with credits for retrofits on lighting,
>> industrial equipment, even data centers in which I do audits for.  It has
>> worked great - the province is using 9% less power since 2008 despite high
>> growth in many areas.  The power company is happy because it doesn't have
>> to add more infrastructure, natural gas plants, etc.  The problem of
>> course
>> is when we start using electric cars, will that 9% disappear with the
>> additional 10% from EVs?  How will Efficiency NS work if the grid's
>> requirements increase?  Worse is the fact that the energy created here to
>> charge electric vehicles still comes mostly from polluting sources - see
>> article here
>> http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=034660fc3
>> There is a somewhat valid argument that an electric car used in NS isn't
>> that much better than a hybrid or even a gas car which lends some minds
>> down here to think an EV really isn't worth it to buy or even give an
>> incentive for.  I have argued there is a lot more EV value than just C02 -
>> where it is emitted, the lower cost of ownership, our infrastructure and
>> attracting young talent will eventually suffer if we don't keep up with
>> this modernization.
>>
>> Would love to hear your feedback!
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dan
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 6:12 PM, paul dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What city do you live in?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
>>> > increased to handle the loads."
>>> >
>>> > You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
>>> > recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not
>>> too
>>> > quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to
>>> keep
>>> > pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of
>>> established
>>> > interests.
>>> >
>>> > Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building
>>> now
>>> > would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems
>>> to
>>> > work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
>>> > fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
>>> >
>>> > BentMIke
>>> >
>>> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&;
>>> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>> > Virus-free.
>>> > www.avg.com
>>> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&;
>>> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <
>>> ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> You paint too broad a brush.
>>> >>
>>> >> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from
>>> the
>>> >> grid and increased useage.
>>> >>
>>> >> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city
>>> had
>>> >> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for
>>> those
>>> >> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
>>> >> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.
>>> Our
>>> >> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
>>> increased to
>>> >> handle the loads.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Peri & All,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
>>> >> being
>>> >>> pushed by mainstream media.
>>> >>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
>>> >> since
>>> >>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
>>> >> utilities
>>> >>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
>>> >>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
>>> >>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
>>> followed
>>> >>> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
>>> followed
>>> >>> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
>>> >>> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
>>> >>> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
>>> >> device
>>> >>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
>>> periods
>>> >>> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
>>> >>> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
>>> current
>>> >>> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
>>> >>> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the
>>> same
>>> >>> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Tom True
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
>>> ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really
>>> think
>>> >>>> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly
>>> impacted.
>>> >> But
>>> >>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
>>> trucking?
>>> >>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.?
>>> What
>>> >> about
>>> >>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about
>>> 10%. I
>>> >>>> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV,
>>> our
>>> >>>> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's
>>> only
>>> >>>> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial
>>> electricity
>>> >> usage
>>> >>>> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
>>> >> assume a
>>> >>>> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
>>> >>>> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
>>> >>>> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all
>>> (considering
>>> >>>> time of use).
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their
>>> EVs
>>> >>>> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need
>>> grid
>>> >>>> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
>>> >>>> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to
>>> the
>>> >>>> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
>>> >> how to
>>> >>>> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on
>>> generation
>>> >> and
>>> >>>> distribution?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Peri
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>>> >>>> ot-crashing-grid
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> >>>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> >>>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>>> >>>> Cc: "brucedp5" <bruce...@juno.com>
>>> >>>> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
>>> >>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>> >>>>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
>>> >>>>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>>> >>>>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
>>> >> standard
>>> >>>>> tires (v)
>>> >>>>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to
>>> all
>>> >>>>> four
>>> >>>>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors,
>>> providing
>>> >>>>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short
>>> of
>>> >>>>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
>>> >> muddy
>>> >>>>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> +
>>> >>>>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
>>> >> kids-unboxing-video/
>>> >>>>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a
>>> beast
>>> >>>>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of
>>> the
>>> >>>>> Model
>>> >>>>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
>>> >> miniature
>>> >>>>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed
>>> off
>>> >> the
>>> >>>>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack.
>>> The
>>> >>>>> Austin Powers star also took ...
>>> >>>>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>>> >>>>> ot-crashing-grid
>>> >>>>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>>> >>>>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
>>> >> existing
>>> >>>>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of
>>> them―0.19
>>> >>>>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service
>>> line
>>> >>>>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively
>>> low
>>> >>>>> levels
>>> >>>>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>> >>>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
>>> >> nabble.com/
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> >>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>> >>>>> /NEDRA)
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>> >>>> /NEDRA)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the
>>> glass
>>> >> is
>>> >>> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>>> >> group/NEDRA)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>>> >> group/NEDRA)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Michael E. Ross
>>> > (919) 585-6737 Land
>>> > (19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
>>> > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
>>> > Google Phone and Text
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>>> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>>> group/NEDRA)
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>>>
>>>
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>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> /NEDRA)
>
>
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