Mark, The argument does not pass the smell test. To me, it sounds like "we have not had this problem before (outages) and thus it must be those new plasma TVs to blame." It is easy to find a blame instead of being accountable and confess that the investment in infrastructure has not kept pace with the growt in nr of housing units, increase in electricity use in every house, including additional AirCo and other heavy users that are not new technology and thus the blame would immediately come back to the energy co, so it is tempting to find something new so you can blame that and say you were surprised by it, even though it did not cause the growth in consumption and your own decision not to invest caused the shortages, not the new tech.
But that is just my impression, I did not study the causes for your city's squeeze, but blaming a low power appliance that uses about the same as the previous tech of the same appliance sounds fishy. Cor. -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 6:21 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Mark Abramowitz Subject: Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid Dubious or not, our local infrastructure couldn't handle the change in technology coupled with numbers of units in each household. Try telling those who suffered frequent outages that they were imagining it. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 2, 2018, at 5:09 PM, Steve Condie via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > This statement, as written, is dubious. All flat screen TV's except > plasma use less electricity than the older CRT sets did - a 50" LED > set uses less electricity than a 30" CRT. Plasma is comparable to > CRT, but plasma TVs never really had a lot of market share, even in > their brief heyday. What's more, the total energy usage by TV sets is > minimal compared to HVAC, refrigeration, cooktops, etc. I think someone's > leg was being pulled. > > On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 11:42 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV > <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > >> You paint too broad a brush. >> >> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn >> from the grid and increased useage. >> >> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city >> had serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed >> for those loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years. >> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems. >> Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity >> increased to handle the loads. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >>> >>> Peri & All, >>> >>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear >>> was >> being >>> pushed by mainstream media. >>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many >>> times >> since >>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the >> utilities >>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation. >>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a >>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, >>> followed by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub >>> craze, followed by the air conditioner installations. The air >>> conditioners do have a noticeable effect on the grid due to a few >>> factors (1. Grid already stressed due to over heating. 2. Large >>> numbers in a region using the >> device >>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended >>> periods of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).) The >>> previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush >>> current events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely >>> noticeable, according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 >>> units use the same amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer. >>> >>> Tom True >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV >>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really >>>> think it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted. >> But >>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking? >>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? >>>> What >> about >>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity? >>>> >>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about >>>> 10%. I don't know how that number compares in general as, even with >>>> our EV, our electricity usage is below the national average. Even >>>> so, that's only accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and >>>> industrial electricity >> usage >>>> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally >> assume a >>>> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be >>>> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause >>>> a significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all >>>> (considering time of use). >>>> >>>> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging >>>> their EVs at 5:30pm. But, as we move more and more to renewables, >>>> we'll need grid storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't >>>> be a significant factor. The significant factor will be how to get >>>> Nevada solar to the cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to >>>> sticky South Carolina. And >> how to >>>> store several days worth to even out nature's effects. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on >>>> generation >> and >>>> distribution? >>>> >>>> Peri >>>> >>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n >>>> ot-crashing-grid >>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >>>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >>>> Cc: "brucedp5" <bruce...@juno.com> >>>> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM >>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226 >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble. >>>>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road- >>>>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html >>>>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on >> standard >>>>> tires (v) >>>>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to >>>>> all four wheels through dual independently operated electric >>>>> motors, providing unparalleled traction in even the worst of >>>>> winter conditions. Short of driving your Tesla through a >>>>> snow-covered off-road track with deep, >> muddy >>>>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ... >>>>> >>>>> + >>>>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s- >> kids-unboxing-video/ >>>>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says itfs a >>>>> beast December 28, 2017 Not long after, Troyer began his >>>>> gunboxingh of the Model S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly >>>>> complete rundown of the >> miniature >>>>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed >>>>> off >> the >>>>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery >>>>> pack. The Austin Powers star also took ... >>>>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE >>>>> >>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n >>>>> ot-crashing-grid >>>>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid Dec 27, 2017 First, >>>>> despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the >> existing >>>>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of >>>>> them\0.19 percent\have actually necessitated distribution system >>>>> or service line upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated >>>>> to relatively low levels of EV-related spending on grid >>>>> maintenance: of the $5 ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >>>>> http://evdl.org/archive/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org} >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4. >> nabble.com/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group >>>>> /NEDRA) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group >>>> /NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the >>> glass >> is >>> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ >> attachments/20180101/107ec2ce/attachment.html> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ >> group/NEDRA) >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ >> group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20180102/21 > 26f3bb/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
