Thanks for the LIVE California load page. That page today shows the famous
Duck's back curve that is developing in California.  Yes, today (in
winter), the curve still has the demand higher during the day than at
night.  But that same curve during the spring and fall does go negative in
the middle of the day and that is the infamous "Duck's Back Curve" that
will only get worse:

For the typical march in 2016 in California, daytime load is 20% less than
the overnight load due to solar.  And it is only going to go down farther
as more people realize how solar is now cheaper than the utility in most
states... and it makes no sense not to invest in solar.  Meanwhile
electric costs at night will go up.

When electricity gets so cheap in the day, then we will see life style
changes simply as an economic result.  Such as charging EV's during the
day ... and there are two ways to do that.  1) Charging at work for
commuters, and 2) charging during the day and moving some driving to
night.  The batteries in EV's are there.  Economic advantages will take
advantage of them...


-----Original Message-----
From: EV [] On Behalf Of jim--- via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 11:30 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] No, electric cars (still) aren't crashing the grid.
Again: Good News: EVs Are Not ...

Bob Bruninga said (in part):
> With solar, day will become the new night, with the cheapest energy
available during the day. Already is in California.

Where are you getting that?  That is certainly not true.  Demand is still
highest during the day (or with the current weather that results in very
little air conditioning load, during dinner).  As soon as the weather
warms up, air conditioning load drives the electric consumption to the
highest loads (and therefore, prices).  Yes, solar offsets some of the air
conditioning load, but FAR from all of it.
This week, most of California is cold (by our standards), but clear.  That
means that the AC load is very small, but solar is doing pretty well (for
winter months).  Looking at yesterday's chart from the California
Independent System Operator (the people who manage bulk power statewide),
the largest difference between total demand and net demand (total minus
solar and wind) was about 10:25 AM.  That seems a little odd since that is
hours before normal peak solar hour.  The chart does not differentiate
between solar and wind.  There is a different chart that does break down
sources of renewable energy.  It confirms that the solar peak was about
10:25.  As I type this (08:25 AM) solar is producing 2,828 MW and wind is
86 MW.  This constitutes about 62% of renewable sources, and all renewable
sources constitute 18.5% of total demand.

If you want to see what it's doing, check out:

Jim Walls - K6CCC
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (

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