Yeah, NEC requires a GFCI for all outdoor outlets. If you hardwire an EVSE in, you don't need it, as the EVSE contains its own.
A common use for 15-50's outdoor is powering RV shore power. On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 7:04 PM Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > The NEC has changed through the years regarding GFCI protection. > > 120vac outdoor outlets were required to be GFCI protected since ~1972. > > In the '80s when I worked as an electrician, outdoor 240 volt NEMA 14-50 > outlets were not required to be GFCI protected, but when used to power a > hot tub, or near a pool, they were required to be GFCI protected. > However, the newest NEC regulations require, as I understand it, all > outdoor outlets up to 50 amps be GFCI protected. (I suppose you could > put in a 60 amp breaker to get around the regulation...) > > You should not even mention that an EV might use this outlet. It is > simply an outdoor NEMA 14-50 outlet. Perhaps for a welder, or ??? > > The NEC has become more strict in the past 40 years. :-) > > Depending on the brand of panel, 50amp 240V two-pole GFCI breakers are > not insanely expensive. Typically $100 to $150. (For a Scheneider brand, > they can cost over $400, however.) Choose your brand of sub-panel panel > based on your breaker cost. :-) I would put the GFCI breaker so that is > is handy to the outlet so you can easily reset it. At 5 mA trip > threshold, you are likely to have to reset it with regularity. :-) > > >>>> GFCI rant <<< > > In the USA, the GFCI is set at an insanely low trip threshold of 5 mA. > This is a bit of overreach by the NEC folks. It was initially set far to > conservatively and they can't go up now that they have set the standard > at 5 mA. > > In NZ, and other parts of the civilized world, the ground fault (or > residual current) trip threshold is 30 mA. For context, it takes about > 100 mA, directly across the chest of a healthy adult to cause a fatal > shock. Small children and adults with unhealthy hearts, have a lower > threshold than 100 mA. Thus, in hospitals, daycare facilities, etc. they > set the requirement at 10 mA for devices with in their reach. > > The base voltage in NZ, and most of the world, is 230V. This actually > doubles the chance of getting the critical 100 mA jolt across the chest, > but 30 mA is is still a safer option. First, the threshold is 1/3 of > what is considered the lowest fatal shock current. Next, a shock > directly across the chest is quite rare. You have to touch something of > opposite electrical potential with each hand or arm. This is a _very_ > rare occurrence. > > The consequence of 5 mA threshold is nuisance tripping. Indeed, less > trip current is "more safe" than more, I suppose, but it is impractical > to apply GFCI to more that select parts of the house (and to the > business.) In contrast the ENTIRE house is protected by GFCI in NZ under > the modern NZ electrical code. Your electric range is GFCI protected, as > are all your appliances, and every light fixture. Every outlet in the > entire house is GFCI protected. You have one GFCI 30 mA breaker to cover > the entire house, and it rarely trips. If the trip was 5 mA, this would > be completely impractical as the nuisance tripping would make normal > activities impossible. A hair dryer could easily darken your entire house. > > I should note that commercial settings also have (with some exceptions) > this facility-wide 30 mA GFCI protection on everything, under the modern > electrical code. > > Bill D. > > On 3/11/2024 10:55 AM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: > >> Hi Folks > >> I was reading in Solar Power World where a California solar installer > adds a 14/50 240Vac 50A outlet on the same solar array 50a circuit (for EV > charging). We have added 120vac courtesy outlets on our solar array and > pass inspection even though NEC says solar must be on a dedicated circuit > (also tap off garage circuits that are not dedicated). I couldn’t find > anything direct on Google if it’s a code violation to add a 240V outlet > like we do a 120V outlet on the same 50A branch circuit? Does anyone know > if this is ok/code compliant? > > I assume a local 50A breaker to the 14/50 outlet might be needed since > there’s two sources, 40A solar plus 50A from panel branch circuit. > >> Best regards Mark > >> Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Address messages t...@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > HELP:http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20240311/90d5a3cf/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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