On Jul 23, 9:50 pm, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:

> My own position is that whatever is really real, it is probably
> completely unknowable (like Kant's noumenon). We can only know about
> phenomena. This leads me to the radical proposal that perhaps all of
> phenomena can be explained by reference to the process of
> observation. Certainly some things are. If any phenomena turns out to be
> irreducible to observation, then this would afford us an opportunity
> to peel back the veil on the Noumenon. I'm not sure how one could
> establish beyond doubt that a particular phenomenon depended on
> something not related to observation, but I'll concede the possibility
> for the sake of argument.

I share that position that observation is phenomena and phenomena is
all we can really deal with. Taking that as a jumping off point, we
can look at what is necessary for observation, which I think it a
subject and and object. The subject and object must be separate
phenomena on one level, yet be part of the same phenomenology in order
to be able to interact. We could say that they don't really interact
and there is only a subject with solipsistic simulation, or we could
say that the subjective perspective is an epiphenomenon of objective
noumena which renders the subjective universe a figment of nihilistic
automatism, but both of these extremes seem to bend over backwards to
avoid addressing the simple truth.

In fact, subjective and objective perspectives are both part of the
same essential phenomenon with two ontologies, distinctly opposing
each other in the center of the continuum and dissolving into each
other ineffably where the two extremes wrap around. For this, I think
an involuted continuum is an appropriate model, like a Mobius figure
8, from which we can further examine what we mean by subjective and
objective and find, I think, that sensorimotive phenomena describes
the involuted side of electromagnetism in the microcosm, and
perception-significance describes the involuted side of relativity-


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