On 1/31/2012 18:44, Craig Weinberg wrote:
When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total
darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that
no sensory input should equate to total blackness, since there is no
information to report. Since we can dream or imagine total darkness
without this kind of noise, that would indicate that what we are
seeing in this visual noise is related to the neurology of the optic
nerve and retina rather than Top-down pattern generation. This is
consistent with the multisense realism approach, that we see our own
experience without noise, but when we focus our attention to the
external facing senses, we see through the experiences of the living
tissues of the brain and sense organs, not just 'our own'.
With a representational qualia model, we should expect our visual
system to behave like a window on a computer screen. We should not be
able to see 'static' from the program's logic. Static would come from
the unintended consequence of analog hardware, it has no reasonable
place in a purely computational world, especially since we can easily
conceive of a noiseless visual field. Why the difference between the
total darkness we can see in our experience, memory, and imagination,
and the darkness we can see when we focus on literally looking at
darkness through our eyes?
There is absolutely nothing contradicting COMP about seeing noise when
other patterns are not being organized by the cortex's hierarchy - no
correction/prediction occurs (such as in HTM models).
Let's take it one step at a time, first all the images captured by the
eye or even an ideal photon receptor are noisy, this has nothing to do
with analog and everything to do with how photons and photon detectors work.
> Image noise can also originate in film grain and in *the unavoidable
shot noise of an ideal photon detector*.
A digital or analog camera would get similar amounts of noise as the
eye, actually probably less than the eye.
> Closed-eye hallucinations and closed-eye visualizations (CEV) are a
distinct class of hallucination. These types of hallucinations generally
only occur when one's eyes are closed or when one is in a darkened room.
They are a form of phosphene.
> The noise probably originates from thermal noise exciting the
photoreceptor cells in the retina
Why don't we see clean images instead of a noisy convoluted mess during
our daily lives? Because we actually "see" patterns which also happen to
"correct" the input data (look at the hierarchical structure of the
cortex or read "On Intelligence" for some examples. I could also link
some PLoS articles about this, but I don't have them handy right now.) -
we don't usually see raw unfiltered inputs.
Static and noise can occur just as well within COMP - they are
incredibly common within the UD at various levels. Set up a system with
some random rules and you have a good chance of observing noise. Noise
is so damn easy to make... However, if considered from the COMP
perspective, even incompressible noise (Kolmogorov random) is very
common due to 1p indeterminacy. I think you must have the wrong
conception about what COMP really is.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to email@example.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at