On Sun, Jun 24, 2012  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> The first person indeterminacy is a fact, with respect to comp.

First person indeterminacy is a fact with respect to ANYTHING, sometimes
you don't know what you're going to do till you do it. I find your
theoretical prediction of this less than impressive.

> And then if I luckily succeed in computing the electron mass
> 9.10938291×10-31kg, Brent will tell me that we already knew that, and ask
> for something else.

Don't be ridiculous! If you can produce the value of 9.10938291×10^-31kg
from nothing but pure numbers you would be universally hailed as the
greatest logician or mathematician or physicist (there would no longer be
any difference between the three professions) who ever lived. Philosophical
theories are a dime a dozen but theories that can produce numbers are not,
and theories where the numbers match the numbers obtained from experiment
are even less common. If you want your ideas to go mainstream there is just
no alternative, you've got to find a way for those ideas to churn out
numbers, numbers that can be tested.

> You need also to be interested in consciousness, and capable of
> distinguishing first and third person points of view

I'm interested in consciousness but I am not capable of always making the
distinction between the first and third person points of view, but you have
admitted you can't do it either.  On March 27 2012 I said:

 "Give me a example of 2 conscious beings that are identical by what you
call "3-view" but NOT identical by what you call "1-view", show they
deserve different names, do that and I might get a idea what you're talking
about; but don't give me that diaries business, if the diaries are
different a third party can see that just as well as the individuals who
wrote them. Just one clear non mystical example where objectively 2 things
are identical but subjectively they are not, that's all I ask and I don't
think it's a unreasonable request as your proof depends on there being such
a difference."

You responded to my request with:

"You ask me something impossible"

I agree it is impossible. I can conceive of 2 conscious minds being
identical from the 1- view but not from the 3-view, for example a mind
generated from a biological brain and a uploaded mind generated from a
computer, in which case there really wouldn't be two minds but only one.
However 2 minds identical from the 3- view but not from the 1-view makes no

  John K Clark

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